Topic: 4023 mounting?

[Todd R]

I dont understand why more people dont use the vark bar...

I don't understand why so many people want to point their mics at the stacks.  Colin -- +t on the mics, and not trying to call you out here in particular.  I'm just too much of an image freak to want to see folks with really nice gear like DPAs run them so that the image collapses to nothing.

If you're running far back enough (or the stage has such narrowly placed stacks) that you're included angle on the mics falls below 70 degrees, you'll be getting just about nothing for a stereo soundstage.  DPAs have unbelievably good off-axis response -- you'll have no problem with them even if you are "pointed" far off the stacks.  With mics with such a fantastic off-axis response as DPAs, you'll pull a better tape by using a tried an true stereo mic pattern -- ortf or din for instance -- than you will if you just point the mics at the stacks. :twocents:

[jhfinn]

My buddy uses 4023's and just recently got the Schoeps M 100 C Microphone Bar, but it's pricey at $225.
http://www.cascademedia.net/products.asp?catid=124&prodid=968

Like others have said you can also achieve the same results with a Vark bar, but he had trouble finding a Vark bar in stock.

I have that same Schoeps M100C tbar,but preffer the vark bar with the schoeps A20s shockmount.I used the M100c twice,and while breaking down after a show,I dropped the M100c on the floor.Both clips for the capsules broke on impact(only fell from about 2ft).Schoeps made the mic clips out of freakin cheap plastic.Worst $225 Ive ever spent!!!Burns me up that they charge that kinda money for shit thats made out of plastic!!The tbar itself if metal,but the clips are plastic.I havent looked into getting replacement clips,but im sure they will charge an arm and a leg for those too.
Regards,
Jim

[Nick Culbreth]

if you want to try different configs get a pair of the csm4000 shockmounts and an akg t-bar, that'll give you the flexibility to do any config you want to try.

[Tim]

fyi - the plastic schoeps clips are about $12... metal ones are $60

[jhfinn]

fyi - the plastic schoeps clips are about $12... metal ones are $60

I have the metal mounts (SGCM) on my Vark bar,but they wont thread onto the M100C.The plastic clips on the M100C are totally different.Instead of threading onto the top of the M100C,they are held on by a screw.
Regards,
Jim

[Tim]

gotcha!

[BC]

I dont understand why more people dont use the vark bar...

I don't understand why so many people want to point their mics at the stacks.  Colin -- +t on the mics, and not trying to call you out here in particular.  I'm just too much of an image freak to want to see folks with really nice gear like DPAs run them so that the image collapses to nothing.

If you're running far back enough (or the stage has such narrowly placed stacks) that you're included angle on the mics falls below 70 degrees, you'll be getting just about nothing for a stereo soundstage.  DPAs have unbelievably good off-axis response -- you'll have no problem with them even if you are "pointed" far off the stacks.  With mics with such a fantastic off-axis response as DPAs, you'll pull a better tape by using a tried an true stereo mic pattern -- ortf or din for instance -- than you will if you just point the mics at the stacks. :twocents:

I agree, it looks strange to be running ORTF back in the venue and seeing your mics pointing nowhere close to the PA stacks, more like right at the side wall. But I have done this numerous times and it always sounds accurate to the way it sounded to me in that spot at the show. I usually run XY if indoors and not in the sweet spot. I am not a huge fan of XY either but it sounds decent in indoor rooms which tend to be a bit boomy in general, I have found XY has a tendency to "clean up" the sound a bit, brightening up the overall balance which can help for thumpy rock shows.

Actually, I would personally not recommend running DPA 402x pointed at the stacks as the result can be VERY bright and on the harsh side to listen to. I ran PAS (maybe ~50-60°?) for the Dead this summer at Deer Creek (halfway between SBD and back row of pavilion, 4022>V3 @ 24 bit) and it is quite harsh and hard to listen to at elevated volume levels. The DPA's have such smooth off-axis response that I think about 80° angling is about as tight as you would want to run. Plus directly on axis you have that little 15KHz bump, the audibility of which is debatable, but I think they engineered this little bump in there to achieve their extremely neutral off-axis response.

There is a pic in the rig pictures from Phish this past summer at Alpine with my mics mounted PAS, but I just searched for a while and couldn't find it, it is me clamped either to caymanreview's or johnr's stand. I probably had em' at about 70° for these shows, tapes sound ok, not as harsh as for the Dead. For these shows I aimed my mics just outside the stacks. I have to say that after a few trial runs, I really liked the simplicity of the DPA ORTF/XY holder, I didn't really like having to bring all the smaller pieces req'd to run different configs (2 CSM4000, Vark bar) plus inserting the 4022's into the CSM 4000's was more of a pain than mounting them in the ORTF/XY mount. Ok, I know it is not THAT much more gear and time, but hey, it's a moot point because I drank too much whiskey at Leftover last september and left my CSM4000's and Vark bar at the show. Well, I don't know for sure where I left them, but I sure as hell can't find em' now...    

Happy taping!!
Ben

[johnw]

Here's a pic of your mics at those shows Ben. Can't really tell the angle on them since they are from the side though.

[Nick Graham]

I see TLs up top, Schoeps below that, DPAs in the middle...but what are those with the right angle XLRs and Shure screens?

[BC]

I don't think my mics are on that stand, mics 2nd from the top might be DPA but those are not the same windscreens that I have. I thought I saw a pic a while ago of my setup head-on, I'll keep looking.

Take care,
Ben

[johnw]

Good call guys, sorry about that. The pic was from first night where everyone clamped to Dustin's stand, and I don't think your mics were on there Ben. Second night you clamped to my stand ( I remember them being right behind my head). I don't think I have a pic of that though.

[Colin Liston]

Can you send me a clearer picture of this mount?  Or can you tell me what you made this out of?

colin

[stober]

get yourself some dpa mic mounts, a vark bar and a schoeps schockmount to mount it in....

vark bar: http://posthorn.com/Macvk_4.html

what he said

[marc0789]

I third the combo mount bar. I use 4021s. You can use the DPA CSM4000 mounts if you want more flexibility.

I don't even use the cmxo anymore, unless the venue is real shit and I have to run x-y. ortf is too wide to run the 402x indoors just about ever, imo. I've been waayyy happier running them in the CSM4000's DIN or narrower, I've run 80 degrees pas many times with really good results. pricey (about $190 a pair) but well worth it. 

[MattD]

I will disagree with that just because that is one late reply!

I use the ORTF portion of the mount pretty often. I tape in a lot of small venues and often have stage lip or onstage access. For my ears, ORTF was made for that. In an indoor section, I agree with you completely.