Topic: Tascam Dr-2d question

[techgui]

Never mind...  Figured it out.

[Chuck]

I may as well piggy back on this thread with a question of my own.

If I run Church CA-11 > Church STC-9000 > Tacam DR-2d will I need an attenuator cable:

1.  between the STC-9000 (no gain, using it just as a battery box) and the DR-2d going mic in?
2.  between the STC-9000 (+10db gain) and the DR-2d going mic or line in?
3.  ever, with the STC-9000 going into the DR-2d on any gain setting going mic or line in?

This is for recording shows like moe. & Furthur. Typical open taping bands from the OTS or slightly FOB.

Also, any advice on how to run the DR-2d with any other pre-amp in from of it would be appreciated.
I have the option of using my Naiant littlekit pre-amp > DR2d at the same time with the STC-9000 in dual mode.

Thanks in advance.

[Gutbucket]

Hey Chuck, I don't know the sensitivity of the CA-11.  Hopefully someone who's used the combination will post. But I don't think you'll need attenuators unless you want to crank the gain on the Church preamp for some reason. 

Maybe this will help-
I only run DPA 4060 > CA-UGLY > DR2d (both line and mic in)*.
I think the STC-9000 is basically the same as the CA-UGLYs with a gain range of mute-to+20dB.
4060s are quite sensitive at 20mv/PA.  The CA-11 are a good bit less sesitive.
I can record most material with the UGLYs set between -5 to +5dB of gain.

With the less sensitive CA-11s I think you will do fine by leaving the DR2d input gain set around 97 (line in) and 67 (mic in)
and dialing in the appropriate gain using the STC-9000.

*Other than the 4060/UGLY combo, the only other thing I've run into it is an ocassional board feed, line in, and I haven't needed external attenuation to do that, but I might have been lucky.

[Chuck]

Hey Chuck, I don't know the sensitivity of the CA-11.  Hopefully someone who's used the combination will post. But I don't think you'll need attenuators unless you want to crank the gain on the Church preamp for some reason. 

Maybe this will help-
I only run DPA 4060 > CA-UGLY > DR2d (both line and mic in)*.
I think the STC-9000 is basically the same as the CA-UGLYs with a gain range of mute-to+20dB.
4060s are quite sensitive at 20mv/PA.  The CA-11 are a good bit less sesitive.
I can record most material with the UGLYs set between -5 to +5dB of gain.

With the less sensitive CA-11s I think you will do fine by leaving the DR2d input gain set around 97 (line in) and 67 (mic in)
and dialing in the appropriate gain using the STC-9000.

*Other than the 4060/UGLY combo, the only other thing I've run into it is an ocassional board feed, line in, and I haven't needed external attenuation to do that, but I might have been lucky.

Thanks for the info.

So, generally I should set the line in gain at 97 and adjust the littlekit pre-amp to that?
Then set the DR-2d mic in gain to 67 and adjust the Church pre-amp to get good levels with that?

I have not had the time to record anything with the DR-2d yet. But, if this works, it'll be my new go-to recorder. It's small and from what I hear it sounds good. If it had a digital input it would be near perfect. The only problem I can see is that you can't monitor line in and mic in levels at the same time.

[Gutbucket]

That should work fine.  You could route either preamp into either input.  If one is hotter, it's probably better to put that into the line-input.. then as long as you don't go below a setting of 95 on the line-in to keep the meters from clipping you're good.

Safe line-input gain range which avoids overloading the circuitry as long as the meter reads good is ~95-100.
Safe mic-input gain range which avoids overloading the circuitry as long as the meter reads good is ~63-100.
Settings of 97 and 67 are comfortably in that range and make for approximately equal sensitivity on both inputs, so if you have a way of easily adjusting gain externally, leaving the DR2d on those input gain settings is a good bet.

I dig the DR2d and am more than satisfied with it's sound (or lack of sound- to my thinking it's good because it is essentially transparent).  Yeah, you need to push the dual button to switch monitoring [edit] metering back and forth between inputs and must disengage the hold button to do so, but the numeric peak number in dBFS in addition to the bar scale is nice.. and the remote works while the hold is engaged, which I've found is a really great feature for starting and stopping recording with everything safely locked down.

[Chuck]

Thank you Gutbucket! You seem to be the DR-2d guru.  I really appreciate the info.

Do you find the DR-2d meters to be accurate and reliable?

[Gutbucket]

Glad to help.

I find them quite accurate and reliable as long as you don't overload the input circuitry before the meters/ADC.  If you do overload them by overdriving the input while trying to compensate by dialing in a lower input gain outside of the recommended range, you get classic brickwalling behavior where the meters look good but are no longer reliable and fail to reflect the input stage overload.

Like I mentioned, I find the numberic peak display especially handy- and that's something lacking on my other recorders (R-09, R-44, DR-680), though I know it's common on others like the Marantz machines.

[Chuck]

I've got to find time to do some tests. I keep reading that I do need an attenuator for going mic in. If I could attenuate the mic input I could actually use the level control on the 2d. The Church pre-amp has fixed gain. They say the knob allows variable gain, but I don't hear it when I plug headphones in.

I've just been too busy to test it all together.

Gutbucket, I really appreciate the time you've spend with this recorder and the advice you have been giving. You've saved me and a  lot of others a lot of trial and error allowing us to get good recordings right from the start.

I wish there were more people like you here. 

[Gutbucket]

aww shucks, thanks.

I use mic-in without attenuators, but I run an unusual setup and mostly record acoustic and mininally amped stuff where I'm setting gain to keep applause from clipping.  I've been thinking about some outboard fixed attenuators, or a box with switchable attenuation, but mostly for the convenience of avoiding adjusting gain on both my CA-UGLYs and instead being able to switch levels on all four channels by the same amount simultaneously.

[LikeASong]

Long bump - sorry, but this is the onloy suitable thread I could find.


I just wanted to know if the DR-2D provides plug-in power in its mic-in input or not. Thanks

[Gutbucket]

It does.

Available on the mic input only, not the line-in.  Like most small handhelds you need to switch it on via the menu and it provides less than 5V, probably 2.5V or so I assume but haven't measured it.. which means it provides less suitable powering than a batterybox or external preamp for most mics, but works for those mics that run OK with lower Voltage. I can power B3s with it, but not 4060s.

[LikeASong]

Ok, Gut. I was expecting you (since you were honoured as "DR-2D Guru" a few months back ) to reply but not as quickly as you have! Thank you very much

I guess it must provide the same or very similar voltage as my current Roland R-05, and that recorder feeds my CA-14s and a friend's borrowed MMs with enough juice for medium-loudness shows, so I assume the DR-2D would do it too. Thanks.

[Gutbucket]

No hot date tonight, TS is it. 

I assume its PIP is similar to your R-05, seems about the same as my older R-09s.

[tailschao]

Yeah, you need to push the dual button to switch monitoring back and forth between inputs and must disengage the hold button to do so,

Just a clarification, are you saying it IS possible to switch the MONITORING between Mic In and Line In when recording in 4-track mode? Or do you just mean you can switch the metering back and forth. I know how to switch the metering (by pressing the 'dual' button during recording), but the headphone out monitoring port only ever puts out the Mic In source, never the Line In. Are you saying it is possible, or did you mean to say metering and not monitoring? Thanks.

[Gutbucket]

Yeah, you need to push the dual button to switch monitoring back and forth between inputs and must disengage the hold button to do so,

Just a clarification, are you saying it IS possible to switch the MONITORING between Mic In and Line In when recording in 4-track mode? Or do you just mean you can switch the metering back and forth. I know how to switch the metering (by pressing the 'dual' button during recording), but the headphone out monitoring port only ever puts out the Mic In source, never the Line In. Are you saying it is possible, or did you mean to say metering and not monitoring? Thanks.

It definitely switches metering. I thought it switched line/headphone output as well but may be mistaken about that since I almost never monitor output while recording.   I thought I tested and confrimed that early on, but I may be mistaken.  I'll check it and report back when I have a chance, unless someone else beats me to it.

[edit- DUAL button switches the metering only and not the output while recording (confirmed by Scoob, below), on playback it switches output between the resulting line-in and mic-in files]