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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: silentmark on January 30, 2004, 08:10:52 AM
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1/29/2004
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SOUND DEVICES 7-SERIES RECORDER UPDATE #2
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Sound Devices has been busy completing development of the upcoming 722 and 744T
audio recorders. This brief update discusses the analog and digital I/O of the
recorders. A summary of the I/O is also available in table format on the revised
7-Series page at:
www.sounddevices.com/products/7.htm
ANALOG INPUTS
The 722 and 744T include two channels of selectable microphone- or line-level
inputs. These inputs use a new preamp circuit--unique to the recorders--with
exceptional bandwidth, noise, and distortion performance. Their transformer-less
topologies have defeatable analog limiters with software-controlled thresholds.
48V phantom power is available for condenser microphones. The analog preamp trim
is controlled with front-panel push-potentiometers. Input attenuation for
line-level signals is adjusted in 0.5 dB increments in the control menu or from
the front-panel push-pots. The 744T has two additional line-level balanced
inputs on TA3 (mini-XLR) connectors with menu controlled input attenuation.
MASTER ANALOG OUTPUTS
The 722 and 744T have two-channel line-level outputs on balanced TA3 connectors.
The TA3 (tiny-QG) connectors help keep the recorders as small as practical,
while still having fully-balanced, locking connections. Outputs can be assigned
input channels or recorded tracks in the control menu.
DIGITAL INPUTS
Since our original product preview, the digital I/O has been revised. Digital
inputs are selected in lieu of analog inputs. The same XLR connectors used for
analog mic- and line-level signals are used for balanced AES3 inputs. BNC
connectors are used for unbalanced AES3id inputs. XLR-1 is used for digital-in
1/2. On the 744T, XLR-2 is used for digital-in 3/4. Alternatively, digital-in
1/2 (and 3/4 on the 744T) can be fed via the BNC.
DIGITAL OUTPUTS
Digital outputs are on BNC (AES3id format) connectors. Like the analog outputs,
these outputs can contain input channels or recorded tracks, as assigned in the
user menu. The 744T has two digital output pairs. Program on digital outputs
(1/2) is identical to the master analog outputs. On the 744T, the source is
assigned in the control menu for digital outputs 3/4.
HEADPHONE MONITORING
Assignment of sound sources sent to headphones is independent of the master
output assignment. The control menu assigns sources to headphones. The right
panel rotary encoder can be used to step through monitoring selections.
Combinations of mono- and stereo-inputs, and mono- and stereo-tracks can be
selected as sources for headphones.
PRODUCT AVAILABILITY
Sound Devices next step is beta testing. Beta is a critical part of our
development process. We are confident that testing will go well, and are
allotting sufficient time to evaluate the product in a wide range of production
environments. Our quoted availability estimate of Q1 2004 is still valid, but
may move into the next quarter if there are any unexpected issues in testing.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
More Information on the Web
Sound Devices participated in Gotham Sound's January non-linear audio seminar.
This event, held at Silvercup Studios in New York, included several other
manufacturers of non-linear recorders and included panel discussions covering
post-production workflow. Video of the event is available at the Gotham Sound
web site -- www.gothamsound.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++++++++++
NEXT UPDATE
The next e-mail update will discuss file formats, metadata, and storage
mediums.
+++++++++++
-The 7-Series Product Development Team
Interesting, check out the gothamsound site for some of the presentations, I wish I could make out what the last question was that he had "no comment at this time" as the answer. April '04, we shall see ...
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Looks like the first real picture of the new design is up now. Nice. Very nice.
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.
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hope they keep it painted black. looks neat :)
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hope they keep it painted black. looks neat :)
I see a red door and I want it painted black
No colors anymore I want them to turn black
I see the girls walk by dressed in their summer clothes
I have to turn my head until my darkness goes
I see a line of cars and they're all painted black
With flowers and my love both never to come back
I see people turn their heads and quickly look away
Like a new born baby it just happens ev'ry day
I look inside myself and see my heart is black
I see my red door and it has been painted black
Maybe then I'll fade away and not have to face the facts
It's not easy facin' up when your whole world is black
No more will my green sea go turn a deeper blue
I could not foresee this thing happening to you
If I look hard enough into the settin' sun
My love will laugh with me before the mornin' comes
I see a red door and I want it painted black
No colors anymore I want them to turn black
I see the girls walk by dressed in their summer clothes
I have to turn my head until my darkness goes
Hmm, hmm, hmm, ...
I wanna see it painted, painted black
Black as night, black as coal
I wanna see the sun blotted out from the sky
I wanna see it painted, painted, painted, painted black
Yeah!
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I know we will have to wait and see but how do most people think these recorders will work out?
For those of you who are familiar with Sound Devices products, do you think it will have good quality preamp, A/D converter, etc?
Is anyone on this board doing Beta testing?
I like the sound of having everything in one box.
Thanks
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well they did move away from transformer based pre amps, so it could sound like a v3 or an apogee, or a combination of the two or something totally different, and unless someone is hordeing it, i dont think anyone on this board is a beta tester, we must wait for the release and then ask questions and its hard to do, im itching to hear what it sounds like
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Looks pretty, but for $2000 is this the real replacement for DAT? Or a brother to the laptop?
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not sure i understand your question?
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>> Looks pretty, but for $2000 is this the real replacement for DAT?<<
$2000 was the suggested retail price for a da-p1, and plenty of people bought that. the SD devices have much more functionality than a da-p1 for the same MSRP
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Yeah, looking back, that was a dumb question. The hardest part of making the jump from DAT to some other kind of file-based recording setup will be archival. It's nice to have a drawer full of neatly labeled DATs. I'll have to find some equally nice way of storing DVDRs now.
Now, do I go laptop, or save for the 4 channel version of this box?
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>> It's nice to have a drawer full of neatly labeled DATs. I'll have to find some equally nice way of storing DVDRs now.<<
I get stuff off of DAT as fast as possible, because I've seen plenty of older DATs give in to old age
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part of me really loves this box, but for its price i really feel it should have an ADAT in so that it can be used in some studio applications for more than 4 tracks, ya kno?
but hey, its a great, great start!
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>>part of me really loves this box, but for its price i really feel it should have an ADAT in so that it can be used in some studio applications for more than 4 tracks, ya kno?<<
for the price, all the da-p1 got you was 2 track dat...i think this is a great box
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true, but i can ask the world of it cant i? :-D
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is it really going to be worth it to spend the extra 2000 dollars for the time and the 4 channel feature? whats the time thing do? i'm confused.
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the clocking of the 744 is gonna be pretty important if you want to use it with other studio gear to keep all the clocks synched. its a really good move on their part- that way you can connect it to a big ben or something like it to have all your clocks running off a master clock
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i gotcha. well, for me its not worth it to spend the extra 2 grand on it then.
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the clocking of the 744 is gonna be pretty important if you want to use it with other studio gear to keep all the clocks synched. its a really good move on their part- that way you can connect it to a big ben or something like it to have all your clocks running off a master clock
the V3 also has has a wordclock out. I haven't looked at the features of the 744 in depth yet, but this could be real nice to make some matrix mixes after the fact. I'm sure more of us already own V3's and not a "big ben" or other studio clocking equipment.
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yah, i dont think the latency from a v3 to the hd recorder is gonna be a huge issue, but who knows- i wasnt even thinking v3 when i made that response
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the clocking of the 744 is gonna be pretty important if you want to use it with other studio gear to keep all the clocks synched. its a really good move on their part- that way you can connect it to a big ben or something like it to have all your clocks running off a master clock
Both versions do this. This is what the "Word clock" connector is for. It is a standard that allows all the (word clock enabled) digital devices in a studio to sync to one single centralized clock. Very handy for large studios so that you do not have to figure out which device is slaving to what when you have 15+ digital devices (they are all slaves to the central clock).
What the 744 gives you (apart from the two extra channels - either via line inputs or via digital) is "Time code" functionality. Time code is for people who do sound-for-picture.
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new picture... I am starting to have some more faith. That CAD rendering wasn't doing anything for me! The one dimensional shot didn't do much either.
(http://www.sounddevices.com/images/products/744t-beta-325px.jpg)
edit:
I watched the video last week but didn't pick up on the 2.1 gig hd comment. I guess they were trying to be funny.
The other thing I just noticed is that ext. powering is 10-18v as opposed to the 5-18v which I thought was in the original plan. Not a terrible thing, but I was hoping to not have to deal with 12v lead
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more flashy lights = better quality
don't you know that??
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Already finding something to complain about :P
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the mp2 has a dimmer switch, I bet this one will too...
what are you worried about anyway, afraid they'll clash with the V3 lights?
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more flashy lights = better quality
don't you know that??
this is true, cant ever have too many lights/level meters, plus that is the 4 channel version and the 2 channel will only have two level meters on the right, didnt you know that damon! ;)
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what are you guys talking about?
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what are you guys talking about?
That thing has too many lights.
ps-I am gay
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nice catch william...
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I cant wait!
My 7pin cable is starting to cause problems, so im starting to look for something that may be more stable (than DAT & computer)....only time will tell.
And it looks like there wont be any paint to worry about getting scratched off ;D
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what are you guys talking about?
That thing has too many lights.
ps-I am gay
:lol: :rotflmao: :lol:
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I cant wait!
And it looks like there wont be any paint to worry about getting scratched off ;D
The Delorean of digital recorders !
Soon to be featured in a movie about time-teleportation, where they will *add* flashing lights to the 744.
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I cant wait!
And it looks like there wont be any paint to worry about getting scratched off ;D
The Delorean of digital recorders !
Soon to be featured in a movie about time-teleportation, where they will *add* flashing lights to the 744.
sweet, it runs on old coke cans?
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Betas have not gone out yet.
The front & sides of the case are stainless steel. Top & bottom on the production units could end up either stainless or aluminum.
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Q1 is almost over...
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Q1 is almost over...
i know, this is the 3rd or so time its been pushed back :P
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i don't care what color it is, as long as it does what they've been hyping.
jr
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Betas are not out yet. Let's face it, this baby wont be shipping in volume until the turkey is on the table.
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Q1 is almost over...
from the website...
The 722 and 744T recorders are slated for availability in Q2 of 2004.
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If any of the vendors would like to send an early model to Vegas for the April Phish run I'd be glad to run it. ;D :P
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how can i become a beta tester? :)
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you must first become a master
(get it?)
yuk yuk yuk
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Master Beta tester Kwonfidelity mentioned that you had to participate in beta testing on location at certain places. They weren't just going to send him a box and let him have at it...
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send him a box and let him have at it...
:D :D :D
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i don't care what color it is, as long as it does what they've been hyping.
jr
schwilly's preferred MD is pussy pink...
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that way when I shove it down my pants to stealth I can say I've been close to pink before
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Went back to check and see if there was an update and I noticed that they no longer say it will have 40g HD space...
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Shipping in April, maybe.
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Shipping in April, maybe.
Where have I heard that before?
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Went back to check and see if there was an update and I noticed that they no longer say it will have 40g HD space...
the website now says the 744 will have 40 gigs and the 722 will only have 20gigs. >:(
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weak. 100 bucks a gig :P
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Serenity now.
Didn't I read that the internal drives were swappable? The only time that I am really going to be concerned with drive space is *if* I ever go to a festival again. I'll have my laptop to dump stuff onto in the mean time should drive space ever be an issue.
Looks like they added something to the powering section as well. Sony L & M mounts sounds to me like a camcorder battery. What does that mean in regards to power time? I have never used or looked into these types of batteries. Are they expensive?
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well, laptop is not going to be an option for me. i'm selling the one i have and do not plan to buy another one. don't know about the camcorder batts.
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I guess I wasn't clear. I meant that I could dump stuff off the sd722 onto the laptop if I travel for a 3 night run or something... like back at the hotel or wherever I am staying.
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i understood...thanks for the idiot translation though...after i sell the laptop i have for sale, i won't have a laptop to use in the hotel room or otherwise.
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i understood...thanks for the idiot translation though...after i sell the laptop i have for sale, i won't have a laptop to use in the hotel room or otherwise.
'
all the more reason to keep it so you can have it for the hotel, and sell me the batteries :P
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silly fukkers aren't we? i plan on taking new desktop with me to springfest so i can dump the jb3 daily.
jr
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20gigs isn't that bad... 40 would be nice but you can still get 2 shows on 20gigs can't you?
I don't have the numbers handy...
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I guess I wasn't clear. I meant that I could dump stuff off the sd722 onto the laptop if I travel for a 3 night run or something... like back at the hotel or wherever I am staying.
Or you could just dump stuff on to your iPod. ;)
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may be better just to keep the jb3. i wasn't planning on dumping the v3, so the 722 will do the same job as the jb3, since i'm not using the pre. of couse it has all thos fun i/o's and the cool lights ::)
jr
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so you were going to get a sd722 and run 16/44.1?
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I guess I wasn't clear. I meant that I could dump stuff off the sd722 onto the laptop if I travel for a 3 night run or something... like back at the hotel or wherever I am staying.
Or you could just dump stuff on to your iPod. ;)
good point, forgot about that little bastard already. t+
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I heard they decided to build the case out of budweiser cans, and replace the gain knobs with recessed screw pots, to reduce production costs. 8)
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All your tin belongs to Anheuser-Busch....
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so you were going to get a sd722 and run 16/44.1?
I plan on running it that way most of the time. I'll eventually step up to 24 bit, though.
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so you were going to get a sd722 and run 16/44.1?
I plan on running it that way most of the time. I'll eventually step up to 24 bit, though.
why not record at 24 bit and then dither for personal use now? that way you'd have the 24bit files for later use.
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so you were going to get a sd722 and run 16/44.1?
I plan on running it that way most of the time. I'll eventually step up to 24 bit, though.
why not record at 24 bit and then dither for personal use now? that way you'd have the 24bit files for later use.
Oh yea... :smoking:
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so you were going to get a sd722 and run 16/44.1?
I plan on running it that way most of the time. I'll eventually step up to 24 bit, though.
Are you going to use the sd722 for a/d or are you going to send it a 20 bit signal from the adk?
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Recording two channels at 24/96 requires a little more than 2GB per hour. So 20GB would be good for 9+ hours of recording.
If you need more record time, substitute a 60GB 2.5 inch drive for about $150. And don't forget the wheelbarrow to carry the battery you'll need to power up for 27+ hours!
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so you were going to get a sd722 and run 16/44.1?
I plan on running it that way most of the time. I'll eventually step up to 24 bit, though.
Are you going to use the sd722 for a/d or are you going to send it a 20 bit signal from the adk?
I'll most definitely try the a/d out. We'll see how it sounds. Regardless, I'm still keeping the adk. :)
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one possible problem with the sd box run line-in is that gain is adjustable is 1/2 db increments. i don't really want that stepped gain "click" in my recordings. makes it awfully tough to run with a 148 or psp2.
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4022>m148>sd722 can't be half bad ;D
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I plan on ditching all gear and running the SD box's preamp and A/D. I like one stop shopping. A single box that does it all is a GREAT thing, and even though my stereo can easily tell me the differences between preamps and A/Ds, it wont kill me if I dont have other sources to hear. How will I know what I'm missing if I just listen to my own recordings?
the secrete to taper bliss perhaps?
hmm....i should ponder that one
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so you were going to get a sd722 and run 16/44.1?
my whole reason for getting it is to drop tapes and be able to run 24/96. but it's going to be a bummer in a festival environment if it doesn't have 40gigs. then, at least you could get a full day on it and dump it at night.
we'll see, when it finally makes it to market. i'll bet a bunch of people will drop in larger drives like they are with the jb3. should we start a yahoo group already? 7xxtapers?
jr
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so you were going to get a sd722 and run 16/44.1?
my whole reason for getting it is to drop tapes and be able to run 24/96. but it's going to be a bummer in a festival environment if it doesn't have 40gigs. then, at least you could get a full day on it and dump it at night.
we'll see, when it finally makes it to market. i'll bet a bunch of people will drop in larger drives like they are with the jb3. should we start a yahoo group already? 7xxtapers?
jr
why not 24/48 then? you get close to 20 hours at 24/48 at 20 gigs. or some at 24/48, others at 24/96. i would prefer 40 gigs as well, but it's not that big of a deal.
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so you were going to get a sd722 and run 16/44.1?
my whole reason for getting it is to drop tapes and be able to run 24/96. but it's going to be a bummer in a festival environment if it doesn't have 40gigs. then, at least you could get a full day on it and dump it at night.
we'll see, when it finally makes it to market. i'll bet a bunch of people will drop in larger drives like they are with the jb3. should we start a yahoo group already? 7xxtapers?
jr
why not 24/48 then? you get close to 20 hours at 24/48 at 20 gigs. or some at 24/48, others at 24/96. i would prefer 40 gigs as well, but it's not that big of a deal.
good point damon, since i/no one even has one yet, a little premature for me to say so. i would like to get more resolution than dat though. we'll see.
i did go start a group though, what the hell.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SDtapers/
jr
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Since they are CF compatible, you could always use a 10g card in a pinch. The way I read it, the unit can go between the two mediums easily.
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one possible problem with the sd box run line-in is that gain is adjustable is 1/2 db increments. i don't really want that stepped gain "click" in my recordings. makes it awfully tough to run with a 148 or psp2.
Where do you get that info from, Damon? Is this just on the line-in or also on mic in? Unless I can get the laptop rig bulletproof at 24/96, I'm thinking about this yet-unreleased box even though I love the sound of the ULN-2. You'd think I'd have learned my lesson about unreleased gear by now (Metric Halo).
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To MattD
http://www.sounddevices.com/products/7.htm
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Ahh, I'd missed the line-in part on that site. Guess I don't care about line in ;)
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I sure would like to know why they chose to have line level input adjustments at .5 db increments.
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I sure would like to know why they chose to have line level input adjustments at .5 db increments.
that kind of sucks... I was really hoping it would work well without an external a/d.
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well it will, you just need a variable gain pre.
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its a conspiracy against the m148... Apogee screwed them fist, now Sound Devices.
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its a conspiracy against the m148... Apogee screwed them fist, now Sound Devices.
basically, yes.
all the more reason to pry that V2 out of Juday's hands...
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maybe it's more a sign that stepped or fixed gain pre's are no longer the state of the art.
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Screw it. I am going to get a jb3 :P
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good call, i'm just gonna wait until apple releases a firmware update for my ipod allowing me to run mic-in.
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I am waiting for the firmware update that allows for bit perfect 24/96 recording with flac encoding on the fly.
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I sure would like to know why they chose to have line level input adjustments at .5 db increments.
This does kindof suck, but you won't really be able to hear a jump of only 0.5db. Try it yourself--get a wav file into Cooledit or soundforge, highlight a section and increase the level by 0.5 db. You'd be very hard pressed to hear where the signal jumps up or where it drops back down. Not that this will make anyone feel any better about SD's design choice.
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i was wondering about that...but doesn't the jump create a click regardless of how big the jump is? and if you need to jump like 3 or 4dbs, 6 or 8 little clicks will probably be a lot more noticable than just 1.
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i was wondering about that...but doesn't the jump create a click regardless of how big the jump is? and if you need to jump like 3 or 4dbs, 6 or 8 little clicks will probably be a lot more noticable than just 1.
You won't hear a click no matter what if the design is good. Listen to the V3 when you increase gain by +5db. There'll be a noticeable jump in levels, but not a "click"
As to the second part of what you're talking about, this is pretty much what the same thing as analog vs digital. Analog is smooth, digital occurs in jumps. The more jumps you have, the less you notice it. So a digitized signal at 44.1k will not sound as good as a digitized signal at 96k.
I'll try it in ascii:
________________
/
/
/ analog increase in gain
/
/ y-axis = signal level, x-axis = time
/
----
____________
_|
_|
_| digital increase in gain (0.5db gain steps)
_|
____|
So both sweeps increase the gain over time (the time it takes for you to turns the knobs), drawing not perfect, but assume each method brings you from one gain level to the same ultimate higher gain level. The analog sweep will sound smooth to the ear, as it is smooth. The digital sweep will sound smooth to the ear so long as the incremental gain steps are not that large. So with 0.5db steps, it will sound smooth as gain is increased. If the gain steps were 5db, it would not sound smooth, but you would hear definite jumps as it went for example from 0db to +20db. Gain steps of 1 or so would probably sound pretty smooth, above that noticeable. Steps of 0.5db would probably not be noticeable by anyone.
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nice use of ascii...yeah, that makes sense. at some level, even variable gain is jumping in short intervals of stepped gain. hopefully you are right, would love the opportunity to run this with the psp2 outboard.
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Right, but the increment in gain is applied at the analog stage. The a/d simply encodes it.
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Yea, understood. I was just using the analog vs digital realm as an example to understand how it works, but should've been more clear.
It does seem odd to me about the 0.5 increments, especially as it is applied at the analog stage. If the 722 was just doing digital scaling, the 0.5 increments would make sense, but I'm not getting why it would be designed this way for the analog realm. Unless they're using a resistor array rather than a variable resistor, but for 0.5db steps, that's a lot of individual resistors.
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Exactly. Doesn't make any sense. If they are already using variable resistors with the mic in, why would they change it for line in?
Back to the Oade Conspiracy...
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Digitally controlled analog gain changes are audible - at least in one such design - in the Metric Halo MIO. It's one of the things I hated most about the unit - most gain changes (even in 0.1dB steps, though I'd usually switch up and down 1 dB at a time) were audible. I tried to set levels on openers all the time and was usually pretty conservative about it.
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The page at Sounddevices is updated again. They have removed the preliminary pricing info (2k for the 2ch version and 4k for the 4ch version). I can only take that as a bad sign.
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Also, added the firewire connection information and gave dimensions
Removing the price indication is scary
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Perhaps a good thing.
The Fostex FR-2 is now nipping at their heals.
There's the Marantz PDR-690, as well.
4GB MicroDrives are being seen under $200 (http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=11;action=display;threadid=15141)
Delays can be pricey.
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I'm familiar with the Marantz PMD670 but what is the PDR-690 and where can I find info about it.
Thanks
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I'm familiar with the Marantz PMD670 but what is the PDR-690 and where can I find info about it.
Thanks
It is PMD, not PDR...I renamed it by misteak.
~~CLICK~~~HERE~~~ (http://www.marantzpro.com/Products/PMD690.html)
(Marantz needs a new product-shot photographer)
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That is a bad thing that the prices are not there anymore.
Watch the new vid clips, and your answers are solved!
Assembly: http://www.sounddevices.com/download/assembly-350.wmv
Readying Beta: http://www.sounddevices.com/download/readying-beta.wmv
They sure do seem to be coming up with the ideas on the fly!
phil
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sounds/looks like they have their heads up their asses!
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the video's are laughable. You know they are going to put a 2.5" lappy HD in the thing. I am leaning more towards vaporware the more info they release.
The killer app in this situation is a unit w/ comprible(sp?) specs to what they claim in the ~500 dollar range. 2 grand from what they had posted before is silly.
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$500 range for a piece of gear like this SDbox is going to take a while, or sure wont be able to compete with the quality of it. That's the thing with a lot of these products, sure some are less expensive, but is the R&D/quality of components as good as one 2-3 times more?
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R&D doesn't mean shit if they can't get it to market- we've been waiting almost 18 months for this.
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^^which isnt a bad thing considering they are hopefully getting all the kinks out....
I wonder what Apogees R&D is like for their portable products. Had they tested them enough, no one would have encountered as many problems as have been reported, and the little things (DC inputs) could have been made better.
It'll be worth the wait 8)
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It'll be worth the wait 8)
i agree, and hope so.
jr
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^^which isnt a bad thing considering they are hopefully getting all the kinks out....
I wonder what Apogees R&D is like for their portable products. Had they tested them enough, no one would have encountered as many problems as have been reported, and the little things (DC inputs) could have been made better.
It'll be worth the wait 8)
I hear ya, but I wish they'd stop saying "oh, it will be ready sometime this quarter" when they really mean "we'll market it when we're damn well ready." I'd just like them to deliver something when they say they will, that's all. It's like being asked to "pull forward" after you pay at McDonalds... JUST GIVE ME MY BURGER!
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$500 range for a piece of gear like this SDbox is going to take a while, or sure wont be able to compete with the quality of it. That's the thing with a lot of these products, sure some are less expensive, but is the R&D/quality of components as good as one 2-3 times more?
did someone really think this box should only cost $500? you can't get a used p1 for $500.
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It'll be worth the wait 8)
i agree, and hope so.
jr
The USBPre looks like a little tank, and is nicely compact compared to my UA-5. I hope that the best of their previos designs are incorporated.
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Mmmmm.... This is a tasty burger (http://funwavs.com/wavfile.php?quote=3911&sound=81)
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Mmmmm.... This is a tasty burger (http://funwavs.com/wavfile.php?quote=3911&sound=81)
They don't let open links at work, but would that be the Big Kahuna Burger ? And a shake ?
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of course!
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R&D doesn't mean shit if they can't get it to market- we've been waiting almost 18 months for this.
All these production delays have tatally screwed me!
I had made an arrangement to trade in my DAP1 and MP2 for the SD 722 almost a year ago. Now S.Sense states since that staff member doesn't work there any more they won't accept my DAP1 - even though it was also purchased through S.Sense. I have sent S.Sense many, many tapers to purchase their gear for almost 10 years, but now I'm unsure if I can continue to recommend them. I will say this much, the next time they fail to live up to an agreement it will be the last time I do business w/them.
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Stop the press!!! Are you telling me that Sonic Sense screwed you over? I can't believe it!
drip, drip, drip
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I had made an arrangement to trade in my DAP1 and MP2 for the SD 722 almost a year ago.
Straight-up trade: DAP1/MP2 for the SD722? Or trade towards an SD722, as in plus cash?
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yeah, no shit...i tell you what, you can send me your p1, your mp-2 plus 1800 in cash and i'll send you my sd722 when i get it.
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Stop the press!!! Are you telling me that Sonic Sense screwed you over? I can't believe it!
drip, drip, drip
omg, the horror, this just isn't right
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used market:
da-p1 = 700
mp-2 = 400
-----
1100 tops unless there are alot of other bells and whistles involved
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SDtapers/message/3
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Of course it was a trade in for my DAP1 and MP + cash. I understand that now w/DATs being phased out that they may not want them, but my issue was that it was agreed upon and now things have changed. However if SD had not delayed production for over a year I may not be having this issue. My point being not only am I frustrated (as you guys are) due to release delays but now it's costing me $.
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Obviously doing rigorous, scientific testing.
I knew SD was blowing smoke..... (http://www.sounddevices.com/download/smokin.mov)
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I saw that today too. It didn't make me very confident. I'm all for fucking around at work, but not when my product is 18 months late.
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Hi,
That movie perhaps wans´t very scientific, BUT, it is kind of that environment we intend to use the gear in, right???
I wonder if they tried all kinds of different smoke in it?
Given the fact that the say "Let´s ship it!" in the end of the film perhaps means that it is actually ready to ship into production.
Only thing that worries me is that it is kind of big......oh yes, I am the son of John Holmes, why would there be anything else down my trousers???
As european security wans´t bad to deal with already...
Thomas
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There is a new update over on the site. Didn't notice much change. Still no price posted on either of the units.
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lets ship it!
I sure hope so.
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lets ship it!
I sure hope so.
you're going to be the only patcher with a HD recorder
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we shall see mr. markham, we shall see.
my "tapes" will kick your tapes ass ;)
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some taper at the Deep Fried show a week ago said he knew 2 people who had already paid the down payment on them and were pre-ordered.......
not sure how reliable but...................................
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damon is first on the list at Cascade...
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No doubt that some vendors will require you to pre-pay or put money down on the box in order to reserve your spot on their "list." They may also charge you a fee to be taken off. However, Cascade didn't require any money down to be on their list.
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score another one for Frank and Cascade.
I've heard horror stories of other vendors requiring down payments that turned out to be non refundable....
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Nutter? Nutter?
<echo>
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that echo sounds familiar!
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Check it out: Sound Devices announces it will show the new 722 and 744T at the NAB conference in Las Vegas April 19. Anybody planning to attend?
Flintstone
http://www.nabshow.com/exhibitors/company.asp?id=8653
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why don't they showcase it at Phish April 15, 16, 17?
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why don't they showcase it at Phish April 15, 16, 17?
you never know ::) it will probably be one of the prototypes that's being shown around to dealer/partners currently. i don't think they'll be at release by then. and, anyone who will be selling these things needs to go through factory training.
jr
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The box is supposed to be shipping by month's end, fo' real !
Deposits are being taken by reputable retailers.
Final price is out.
Anyone know the number ?
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Who's gonna be the first to preorder? I want one of these things so bad, just to get away from laptop taping...
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Damon's first on the list somewhere. If he stays on it, I assume you can see a demo at a local DC show.
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Psh, I wanna see it on the TS.com Loaner program. ;D
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Damon's first on the list somewhere. If he stays on it, I assume you can see a demo at a local DC show.
cascade i believe and i call first dibs on the demo! ;)
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The box is supposed to be shipping by month's end, fo' real !
Deposits are being taken by reputable retailers.
Final price is out.
Anyone know the number ?
numbers are to be made public next week. the demo units will ship to partners during the second half of may. production shipping will be in june.
jr
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damon is first on the list at Cascade...
I'm on that list...
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here ya go:
http://www.sonicsense.com/744t.htm
jr
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after seeing the prices I'm excited to see what Sony and Tascam bring to the table.
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Was hoping MSRP would be a tad bit lower, but expected the price to be about $2300.
Wonder how much the custom 80 gig 722 will run?
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wonder how long that internal battery lasts? I'd hate to have to schlep another 12v around.
Also, I wonder what type of HD is in it- seems like you could buy it w/o an internal drive and add one fairly cheaply.
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I carried a 12v last night for the first time in a while.... forgot how heavy those suckers are!
The more I find out about this unit the less excited I am about it. Hopefully Sony and Tascam come through!
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I was expecting the pricing to be lower as well. ~20% higher than original estimate on the standard model.
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that's a lot more expensive than I had expected. i kind of thought msrp in that range, street price 15-1700
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a retailer gave me a quote last week of $1850, it wasn't firm or anything and he made it very clear that he wouldn't know until this week for sure. I can't believe he was that far off...
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Seriously. Its $500+ more than I expected. Shit, the freaking 'raw' one is considerably more than I expected.
Think SS will sell me a cassette adaptor with mine?
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:lol:
William, I think you and I had the same info. I hope Sony or Tascam can come up with a sub $1000 HD Recorder only. I don't need anything else, just some meters, a digi in, 3 digi-outs and 6v power.
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Maybe the a/d will be so good that I can sell the v3 and pick up a v2 to make up for the additonal cost...
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:lol:
William, I think you and I had the same info. I hope Sony or Tascam can come up with a sub $1000 HD Recorder only. I don't need anything else, just some meters, a digi in, 3 digi-outs and 6v power.
Honestly the one exciting thing about the unit was the potential of being able to have an all in one stealth box to me. I know, everyone "loves" their rig chain and no way would I give up my V3, Minime, etc...but for me, I definitely wanted something small to stealth with, and quite honestly, I am a big fan of a small rig....unfortunately this thing looks like it is the size of a brick, at a pretty high price point.
That being said, I would love to see Sony or the like create a HD recorder with (as Tim said), levels, spdif in, digi out, and my one other key, internal power option....even if 4 aa's will only power it for 3 hours, it would be nice to have the option.
Not knocking this box....just interested in other options...will have to see what it sounds like though.
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Nick - dead on! internal power would be nice to have for sure...
William - I'm wondering what this thing will do to the used gear market if the a/d sounds good. Could see lots of MiniMe's and even V3's out there. Look what happened to the value of a V2!
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hmm, these came in quite a bit higher than i was expecting. looks like i'll be holding out until somebody can come up w/ a better option.
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you know what is sad, the JB3 is a much better option right now...now if those guys would just make a SPDIF input and meters worth a damn...and a non proprietary battery, I would be all over it :)
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24bit is the kicker for me....
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24bit is the kicker for me....
good point....yeah, add that to the JB3 then I am all over it ;D
seriously though, I am beginning to think that mini laptops (like the side of this thing) are going to come in at the same price point as this thing....
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Laptops just don't seem feasible to stealth with or run lowpro fob...
but you can use them for much more than taping.
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Laptops just don't seem feasible to stealth with or run lowpro fob...
but you can use them for much more than taping.
agreed, but with the size of this box, I dont see it as something I am planning on crotching anytime soon either....
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Laptops just don't seem feasible to stealth with or run lowpro fob...
but you can use them for much more than taping.
it's smaller than a v3. if it was just mics>722, you'd probably be ok.
jr
agreed, but with the size of this box, I dont see it as something I am planning on crotching anytime soon either....
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I don't really stealth but running fob in a mountainsmith pack with a laptop doesn't seem like fun... though I know people who do it.
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true it is smaller, but there are not many times you are going to see a V3 in the field either for true stealthing, where you have to sneak gear in, on the body and pass through wands...
who knows though, this could be the greatest invention ever...either way though it is a good thing, because hopefully it will push other manufacturers down the path of development....competition is always healthy...
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Wow that is a lot more expensive than I had anticipated. With the relatively warm reception of the Fostex FP-2 I was more or less sure that the price would be LOWER, not higher than the previously announced $2000.
The playing field, for me at least, is now wide open again. Bring on the Fusion, the Sony and the Tascam. I hope there is word at NAB.
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SS removed its "modified" offerings. Wonder what came up?
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Laptops just don't seem feasible to stealth with or run lowpro fob...
but you can use them for much more than taping.
agreed, but with the size of this box, I dont see it as something I am planning on crotching anytime soon either....
sharp edges, too
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bubble wrap
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SS removed its "modified" offerings. Wonder what came up?
Hi All,
The modified offerings are back up in full detail.
We also started the Sound Devices FAQ to address a number of questions that have been discussed lately.
www.sonicsense.com/7seriesFAQ.htm
There are a few cool surprises on there too! : )
Marc
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WWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
1.5 hours on a low RPM Hard drive. Thata baby!
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24-bit/48kHz recording requires .5gb per hour/per channel.
24-bit/96kHz recording requires 1gb per hour/per channel
24-bit/192kHz recording requires 2gb per hour/per channel
An 80-gb hard drive in a 722 could store 20 hours of Stereo 24-192kHz audio.
An 60-gb hard drive in a 722 could store 15 hours of Stereo 24-192kHz audio.
An 40-gb hard drive in a 722 could store 20 hours of Stereo 24-192kHz audio.
The stock 20-gb hard drive in a 722 can store 20 hours of Stereo 24-192kHz audio
For a 744t, these times must be cut in half when utilizing all four tracks.
I believe the above (in bold) is an error and should read that the stock 20g HD only get 10 hours of stereo 192/24.
Also, since when does this thing record at 192kHz? The Sound Devices site only mentions 96k
Couple of thoughts here...
Pro:
Big pro for the 744 is the delay feature. To me, this means that you can do board aud matrixes on the fly with relative ease given a basic understanding of sound and physics. (Nevermind the fact that you could buy a mackie 1202vlz and a digital delay device and save over a grand for mixes)
Preamp is comparable to a grace pre.
Con:
.5 stepped increments producing "artifacts" on line level inputs fucking blows. This makes fixed gain pres and soundboard sources a tough scenario to pull off.
Did I mention the price came in high?
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Once you get sick of bitching about it, Bos, you can loan it to me :)
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24-bit/48kHz recording requires .5gb per hour/per channel.
24-bit/96kHz recording requires 1gb per hour/per channel
24-bit/192kHz recording requires 2gb per hour/per channel
An 80-gb hard drive in a 722 could store 20 hours of Stereo 24-192kHz audio.
An 60-gb hard drive in a 722 could store 15 hours of Stereo 24-192kHz audio.
An 40-gb hard drive in a 722 could store 20 hours of Stereo 24-192kHz audio.
The stock 20-gb hard drive in a 722 can store 20 hours of Stereo 24-192kHz audio
For a 744t, these times must be cut in half when utilizing all four tracks.
I believe the above (in bold) is an error and should read that the stock 20g HD only get 10 hours of stereo 192/24.
---
A couple of mathmatical fuckups there (not me and William); it should be 10 hours on 40gb at 2-channel 24/192 and 5 hours on 20gb 2-channel 24/192. The corrections are made.
Marc
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24-bit/48kHz recording requires .5gb per hour/per channel.
24-bit/96kHz recording requires 1gb per hour/per channel
24-bit/192kHz recording requires 2gb per hour/per channel
An 80-gb hard drive in a 722 could store 20 hours of Stereo 24-192kHz audio.
An 60-gb hard drive in a 722 could store 15 hours of Stereo 24-192kHz audio.
An 40-gb hard drive in a 722 could store 20 hours of Stereo 24-192kHz audio.
The stock 20-gb hard drive in a 722 can store 20 hours of Stereo 24-192kHz audio
For a 744t, these times must be cut in half when utilizing all four tracks.
I believe the above (in bold) is an error and should read that the stock 20g HD only get 10 hours of stereo 192/24.
Also, since when does this thing record at 192kHz? The Sound Devices site only mentions 96k
Couple of thoughts here...
Pro:
Big pro for the 744 is the delay feature. To me, this means that you can do board aud matrixes on the fly with relative ease given a basic understanding of sound and physics. (Nevermind the fact that you could buy a mackie 1202vlz and a digital delay device and save over a grand for mixes)
Preamp is comparable to a grace pre.
Con:
.5 stepped increments producing "artifacts" on line level inputs fucking blows. This makes fixed gain pres and soundboard sources a tough scenario to pull off.
Did I mention the price came in high?
my guess on the 24/96 is that the internal A/D in it can do up to 24/96, but if you are passing a signal from an outboard a/d it can do up to 24/192
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my guess on the 24/96 is that the internal A/D in it can do up to 24/96, but if you are passing a signal from an outboard a/d it can do up to 24/192
SD is indicating that they 7-Series will do 192 on their own.
The unsolved question, as I see it, is whether the HD can support 4-tracks of 192, and if so, what speed of HD is necessary. I have these questions into them now.
Marc
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Preamp is comparable to a grace pre.
Curious how you came to this conclusion without actually hearing one? Just based on specs, or...hmmmm, maybe you've heard one? Inquiring minds want to know!
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From Sonic Sense:
http://sonicsense.com/7seriesFAQ.htm
"Let's push it further, how about compared to the high-end portable pre-amps in common use? While this is a subjective matter, what is the parting word for now until we can listen?
You can favorably compare its preamps to [the most popular field pre-amp in use], plus we exceed their specifications for distortion performance and E.I.N."
sounds like they're talking about Grace to me. I'll believe it when I hear it. The Minime was a Trak2 to go after all ::)
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Oh... I thought they meant dmic when they said that...
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:lol:
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sound devices says the specs are better than the "most popular field preamps today"
i'm guessing that's their way of saying they have better specs than the grace and maybe apogee without actually saying the competitors' names
but we all know specs don't tell the sound
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but we all know specs don't tell the sound
what do you mean?
(http://www.core-sound.com/Mic2496_5.jpg)
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New update on the webpage...
While the 722 and 744T are a very capable recorders alone, they really excel when used in conjunction with a Sound Devices 442 or 302.
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They added weight info as well. 2.2 pounds with battery and hard drive. That's hella-low, 50% less than the FP-2 WITHOUT batteries.
If one were to run with a CF card only you could shave off another 3.5 ounces.
Although the comment about external mixers quoted above does sound suspicious.
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New update on the webpage...
While the 722 and 744T are a very capable recorders alone, they really excel when used in conjunction with a Sound Devices 442 or 302.
you know what that scheme means=$$$$
-from spending money on more equipment
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I seriously doubt they'd make the 7 series preamps sound better than their 302/442 mixers. Why sell one box when you can sell two? Witness Mini-MP...
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I don't think they were trying to make them sound like the mixers. The mixers are transformer based while the 7 series are not. It seems that the mixers offer very different feature sets than the 7 series.
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i was just saying, they say that to try and get people to buy the mixers before the 7's come out
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this company's only 6 years old and one of the few who make such a product. Give em a break
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this company's only 6 years old and one of the few who make such a product. Give em a break
Because thay spent the last two years announcing and not releasing the 700 series ? :P
Or was is it the "cool" videos on their site ?
They need to shape up and act professionally.
I hope this thing sounds as good as Mark is implying.
That would fix a world of hurt.
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Hi All,
I've updated the FAQ with yesterday's round of questions to SD.
I substituted the preamp name as I only wanted to push them a bit but didn't find it appropriate to use the specific manufacturer's name, especially when SD implies their's is better. The proof will certainly be IN THE LISTENING!!!
They did confirm that the included drive will support 192 at maximum number of tracks for each respective machine. As well it should!!!
FWIW, the mixers add functionality (ie. 3 or 4 channels into a 722) but I would expect a different sound from them and the mixers and recorders, not necessarily a better or worse. I don't think this is a major matter to many of us, but for some other applications, the combination could be cool.
Marc
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Can you ask Sound Devices about the 2 gig limit and how (if?) they expect to get around it?
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Can you ask Sound Devices about the 2 gig limit and how (if?) they expect to get around it?
yep, please do...most important unanswered question about these things.
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marc,
whats the chance that you can get SD to publish samples?
If this thing is really in beta, they must have plenty of captures already. I'd be interested in hearing samples at the different rates 96/24, 48/24, and 48/16. Thats way more important than any published specs. I think that they could remove alot of questions/concerns by releasing some samples.
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Hi All,
Sound Devices has their own FAQ now as well.
I haven't had a chance to compare but here it is:
http://www.sounddevices.com/tech/7-faq.htm
Regarding samples, as soon as our demo units arrive, scheduled for mid-late May, we'll start making samples and distribute them rapidly.
As many of you know, I love making comparison recordings so there will be sample rate, pre-amp, and a/d comps made ASAP.
Marc
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Marc,
Here's another question. Is the battery removable so that you could have a spare battery already charged up and then attach it when the first one runs down?
Or is it attached permanently?
Thanks
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Taking a look at the two sites, it appears that Sound Devices liked what Sonic Sense posted... they pretty much copied SS verbatim!
-
Regarding samples, as soon as our demo units arrive, scheduled for mid-late May, we'll start making samples and distribute them rapidly.
Marc
It would be nice if SD would release some samples early. I have an order in, but I'd like to be sure of what I'm getting while I still have some chance to reconsider. If I had built something that I thought to be as good as the V3, I'd be sending out samples like AOL discs.
So if you are getting a demo unit in late May, how far behind that will the customer units ship? Is it assured that the units will be in our hands before Bonneroo? I'd rather not be making my first dry run in the RV.
michael
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Taking a look at the two sites, it appears that Sound Devices liked what Sonic Sense posted... they pretty much copied SS verbatim!
:rotflmao:
+t
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-from sound devices faq-
How do you handle the 2 GB file size limit that is often associated with .wav files? Will the file system break a recording seamlessly at a given file size and start a new one without any operator
intervention?
There are couple of things here. First, a WAV file on its own does not have a finite size limit, it is the volume that contains it which limits its size. In older FAT (and FAT16) environments the largest single volume (and file) was 2 GB (remember the fun when installing a large drive with Window 95 and having multiple partitions?).
The 744T and 722 recorders data volumes are formatted and write to FAT32 file structures. This formatting allows the drive to directly mount in a wide variety of computer platforms, including Windows, Mac OS, and Linux. Via the FireWire connection both internal drives (internal HD and CF) appear as external FAT32 volumes. The 7-Series recorders can format volumes up to the 2 TB. (NOTE: Windows XP and W2K have a limitation on FAT32 drive formatting - XP can format a FAT32 volume to a maximum of 32 GB, although it can read FAT32 volumes as large as 2 TB.)***
FAT32 formatting has a maximum single file size limitation of 4 GB. While that means that you could have thousands of files on the drive, the largest any one file can be is 4 GB. The 744T and 722 recorders will automatically split an audio file before the 4 GB size is reached and begin writing to a new file. When joined in an editing program these files match seamlessly with no samples lost. This is similar to an Audio CD which has multiple tracks on its volume. The 744T and 722 have menu-selectable file size maximums of 650 MB, 1 GB, 2 GB, and 4 GB. The 650 MB size allows the user to break a single, long form audio program into multiple CD-R sized files for backup to inexpensive CD-R medium.
***my note, XP has the limitation, not Win2000
-
(NOTE: Windows XP and W2K have a limitation on FAT32 drive formatting - XP can format a FAT32 volume to a maximum of 32 GB, although it can read FAT32 volumes as large as 2 TB.)***
***my note, XP has the limitation, not Win2000
This is on the install & subsequent format of FAT32 volumes. I install alot of XP boxes with 40GB drives. For the generic workstation install, NTFS is unnecessary. What I do is, BEFORE I boot the WinXP install disc, I boot up on a Win98 Boot Diskette and fdisk/format the large volume as FAT32. Then you boot the XP install disc, and tell it to use the current volume, instead of converting to NTFS or reformatting NTFS. You get to have FAT32 & XP on whatever size volume you like - AND if the XP crashes, you can still get access to the disc by booting a DOS startup disc.
But nonetheless, even if the disc in the SD WAS NTFS, you will still be up against the WAV/BWF maxfilesize limitation.
Rick
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>>First, a WAV file on its own does not have a finite size limit, it is the volume that contains it which limits its size. <<
I don't really agree with that
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rick, they could have used W64 or SDII extended as their file format. neither of these has the 2/4gb barrier that .WAV has
not sure why these companies use FAT32. they still have to license that from Microsoft..NTFS is more stable and less prone to fragmentation and corruption.
before anyone says that only NT, Win2000 and XP can recognize NTFS, this is ONLY true if you are physically taking the drive out of the 7xx unit and plugging it directly into a IDE channel on the computer.
if SD were to license NTFS, they would have a small firmware chip which would have the driver info so that any computer the 7xx unit was plugged into via firewire would recognize and it and be able to read from it, just like a Win98 or *nix or Mac that is networked with a NT, Win2000 or XP machine can access/read a NTFS drive/share
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>>First, a WAV file on its own does not have a finite size limit, it is the volume that contains it which limits its size. <<
I don't really agree with that
yeah, I was wondering about that too.
try to create/record a +2gb .WAV file on a ntfs, ext2/3 or hpfs file system and you will still have problems
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right there in the broadcast wave specification:
http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:UMt2RxJgPbEJ:www.ebu.ch/departments/technical/tech/tech_32/tech_t3285_s4.pdf+WAV+format+2+gigabyte&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
4 gig limit, though in practice 2gb, perhaps due to signed vs unsigned ints?
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also, NTFS drives *can* be read on the newer versions of mac os x. it ain't just windows. but anyway, yeah, fat32 is probably just easier for them to do cross platform compatibility (since it's still not supported on older macs and other systems)
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I have yet to see a device that interfaces with a computer (digital cameras, etc.) that does more than FAT32. Most camera manufacturers as recent as a year ago, made a big deal about "now FAT32 compatible". I don't think this has to be "licensed" per se', but is the easiest to work with, and utilize larger than 2GB volumes. Keep in mind that most removable media (Cardbus, Compact Flash, etc.) has only recently broken the 2GB barrier anyway.
rick, they could have used W64 or SDII extended as their file format. neither of these has the 2/4gb barrier that .WAV has.
But the fact is, that they did not, for whatever reason, so it's a moot point really. This really shouldn't be an issue, if it will start a new file without losses. But it IS a shortcoming that all the non-linear recorders are suffering from right now. Even if they DID use w64/SDII they would still be up against the FAT32 limitations. So whether is the SD7X, Fostex, or whatever else is coming in the immediate future - we're gonna be stuck with it...
"With documentary and ENG mixing engineers in mind, we kept the recorders as small as practical without compromising their useability." - (from SD's website) shows that WE aren't the market they're going for anyway.
Remember - WE ARE ALWAYS the "incidental" market. But then again, we ARE an adaptive bunch of people.
Rick
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Here's an example of what SD is thinking when they advise owning a mixer and a 7xx series. It's a serious example in the middle of a satiric piece:
http://www.sounddevices.com/news/kj.htm
"I use a SD442 and hardwire to two cameras. When it's available, I'll add the 744T and feed the direct outputs from the 442 to the 744T inputs. I'll send mixed program to the two cameras, plus sending the direct tracks to the "drive". In case the audio poops out on the camera(s), I've got it and I'm the hero. With the size and weight of the 744T, I'll just keep it in my kit and record to it all the time. If the production is over and the drive audio isn't needed, I'll just erase it. No loss, no cost. On the other hand if they do need it...ta da, Skittles for a whole week!"
Flintstone
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Here's an example of what SD is thinking when they advise owning a mixer and a 7xx series. It's a serious example in the middle of a satiric piece:
http://www.sounddevices.com/news/kj.htm
"I use a SD442 and hardwire to two cameras. When it's available, I'll add the 744T and feed the direct outputs from the 442 to the 744T inputs. I'll send mixed program to the two cameras, plus sending the direct tracks to the "drive". In case the audio poops out on the camera(s), I've got it and I'm the hero. With the size and weight of the 744T, I'll just keep it in my kit and record to it all the time. If the production is over and the drive audio isn't needed, I'll just erase it. No loss, no cost. On the other hand if they do need it...ta da, Skittles for a whole week!"
Flintstone
What do you do for work, if all you do is play with cameras and recorders ? ;D
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looks like the need for carrying the lead has just vanished with this sweet camera battery find
-
Marc,
Here's another question. Is the battery removable so that you could have a spare battery already charged up and then attach it when the first one runs down?
Or is it attached permanently?
Thanks
the sound devices spec page mentions compatibility with L- and M- Mount Sony batteries
looking around a little i found these bad boys..can you say 5000-6000mah?
HELL YEAH!..if these fit the slot, there are no power concerns ;)
http://www.batterybank.com/master/npf960.html
http://www.batterybank.com/master/npfm91.html
boogie
sweet find boogie. if only there was a picture of the battery attachment area from SD. then we'd know for sure. three or four of the 6000mah batts and you'd be good to go all day. for those of us who already own the 'festival battery', we just need to get the hirose plug.
jr
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the plug clicks into place and the outer barrel must be pulled back to remove it.
jr
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right there in the broadcast wave specification:
4 gig limit, though in practice 2gb, perhaps due to signed vs unsigned ints?
You're right about signed numbers being the culprit here - by using that bit for sign, you lose a power of 2.
So it would split at 4 GB - great. What the hell do people do when they discover they can't open these files in any editor? I get an error message in anything I have if I try to open up a WAV that is greater than 2 GB. Since BWF is a subset of WAV, it's a safe bet that it'd have this issue too. The only thing I can open > 2 GB are SDII ex and W64.
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i plan on having it split at 1GB every time
how about this though:
24/192 is 4 gigs an hour. so any half hour jam will be longer than 2 gigs...we'll have to split files up into 2 just to save them :)
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24/192 is 4 gigs an hour. so any half hour jam will be longer than 2 gigs...we'll have to split files up into 2 just to save them :)
How is that going to work with something like discwelder Bronze? When you you drop in wave files, I assume that is where it puts the track marks. If you have to break long jams into chunks, it seems like that results in trackmarks at undesirable places. Anyone using Steel know if track marks can be placed independently of file boundaries?
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Hey Marc, another set of questions for the FAQ:
- What is the HD installation procedure?
- Is there a format procedure that must be applied when a drive is installed?
- How long does that take?
- Can I preformat drives and then swap them in as they become full?
- Does the unit offer a "remaining" counter display to indicate the unused capacity at the currently selected recording rate?
- What is required to swap drives in the field? Is there a drive bay and a ribbon cable or is there a proper drive enclosure?
- If the latter is the enclosure available as an optional part?
- Is the drive removable with finger screws or are tools required?
- What are the specific harddrives that have been qualified by SD for use in the 722?
- How are track marks handled during recording? Does that cause a new file to be started?
BTW, on your page there are several customized packages. Is that your doing or is that standard offering from SD?
thanks,
michael
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Michael, good questons, i'm sure sd will be able to provide the answers, and we'll have hands on with these things during training in may. hopefully, a lot of this stuff will be solidified by then. the customized packages are Sonicsense exclusives.
you really planning on filling up the drives that fast?
jr
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archiving on IDE drives is becoming more and more cost-effective
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I'll probably start archiving on IDE soon. But my initial interest is because we plan to take this thing to Bonnaroo and tape everything, including the time I spend snoring. We hope to have a laptop and get the shows onto DVD while we are not taping, but realisticly I think that we'll be more likely to just take a second drive and use that after the first one is full.
If 192/24 fills 4GB/hr and I assume that we're talking about 12-14 hours of music/day, I'm going to need at least two 80G drives. I have a feeling that we'll have to swap the drive halfway though the second day. Does that seem about right? Between Joe and I we have enough gear to cover all the stages, but I think the 722 is going to get run back and forth between which ever stage is active. First run out of the gate and we're gonna beat the thing into submission.
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i'll be doing the same thing at telluride 10am-1am, don't know if i'll run it that high, but it won't be 44/16.
jr
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What microphones are you using to capture sound above 45kHz? Is it the new Sanken omni?
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oh shit, here it comes
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hey schwill, do you know a good card maker that is freewqare, id like to make the rentals a card for easter
thanks bud
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i plan on having it split at 1GB every time
how about this though:
24/192 is 4 gigs an hour. so any half hour jam will be longer than 2 gigs...we'll have to split files up into 2 just to save them :)
Hi Scott and All,
If I understand the responses in the FAQ properly, it indicates "Audio files can be written as either multiple mono files or as polyphonic files."
I find it helpful when recording on a laptop to write tracks as single channels since 2-gig of single channel is thereby two hours instead of one. This is particularly helpful in multi-channel recordings.
Of course, there are lots of other good arguments for why to break it even shorter. I know some folks like to store a <700Mg for easy storage to CD. I've also seen <1gB being preferrable to keep certain software packages happy.
I'm sure others can elaborate on this better than I can.
Marc
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Hey Marc, another set of questions for the FAQ:
- What is the HD installation procedure?
- Is there a format procedure that must be applied when a drive is installed?
- How long does that take?
- Can I preformat drives and then swap them in as they become full?
- Does the unit offer a "remaining" counter display to indicate the unused capacity at the currently selected recording rate?
- What is required to swap drives in the field? Is there a drive bay and a ribbon cable or is there a proper drive enclosure?
- If the latter is the enclosure available as an optional part?
- Is the drive removable with finger screws or are tools required?
- What are the specific harddrives that have been qualified by SD for use in the 722?
- How are track marks handled during recording? Does that cause a new file to be started?
thanks,
michael
Right On Michael,
Nice set of questions. I was telling SD the other day that this is becoming contagious. The more info they share with us, the more we want. A couple of these are lighly addressed in the FAQ but I sure see the need for expansion. I'll push the issues and post it ASAP.
BTW, on your page there are several customized packages. Is that your doing or is that standard offering from SD?
That's an option for anyone who wants to offer the service. For those who want to dig into their machines themselves, it is supposed to be a pretty straighforward process.
These are just suggested packages. I've already had requests to configure a couple differently than these.
Marc
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Who's gonna be the first to preorder?
I preordered last July 10th from LSC.
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The Sound Device web page http://www.sounddevices.com/products/7.htm
is updated again.
MSRP for the 722 is now $2650! Eeek! --Flintstone
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MSRP for the 722 is now $2650!
That is hardcore right there. There is NO WAY i could justify paying that price for what this box offers. Recording to HDD at these high resolutions is great and all, but that price is well beyond the scope of what this hobby merits IMHO.
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MSRP for the 722 is now $2650!
That is hardcore right there. There is NO WAY i could justify paying that price for what this box offers. Recording to HDD at these high resolutions is great and all, but that price is well beyond the scope of what this hobby merits IMHO.
I dunno, some people have $1500 in a V3 for pre/ADC + $900 in a DAP1 - that's $2400 right there. I think if it, in fact, offers top-notch pre and ADC the price isn't all that outrageous if you're happy running it as an all-in-one box. Me, I only want the thing as a HD recorder, so in my case the price is too steep at the moment.
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i HOPE to have one for field testing during telluride bluegrass. obviously, i want to run the v3 in front of it, but will give it a go as a stand alone 50% of the time.
jr
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MSRP for the 722 is now $2650! Eeek! --Flintstone
Maybe they pushed up the MSRP to make people feel better about the $2400 that they were quoting for preorders.
Has anyone who preordered heard from their vendor that the price is going to be higher now?
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I dunno, some people have $1500 in a V3 for pre/ADC + $900 in a DAP1 - that's $2400 right there.
Yeah, That makes sense....But i am with you, I would only be using it as a hdd recorder. So it is definately out of my range.
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Yeah, That makes sense....But i am with you, I would only be using it as a hdd recorder. So it is definately out of my range.
Ditto.
I have yet to even receive the e-mail from Frank at Cascade regarding it. He said a short while ago he would send an e-mail to everyone on the pre order list containing details, but I hgave yet to see anything...
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a new sony viao tr2(?) looks like a better option everyday.
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Yeah, That makes sense....But i am with you, I would only be using it as a hdd recorder. So it is definately out of my range.
Ditto.
I have yet to even receive the e-mail from Frank at Cascade regarding it. He said a short while ago he would send an e-mail to everyone on the pre order list containing details, but I hgave yet to see anything...
Frank sent out that email some time ago, I believe it was the first week in April. Give him a call to discuss details.
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The price is high, but if it rocks as an all in one box with a solid pre and good a/d it might be worth it. I am going to wait this one out a year or so and see what else comes along.
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Not to knock it but how do we know that the pre and ADC are any good....compared to ModSBM, M148 or V2 and above pres...and same w/adc's Msbm/v3/mme units.
How does the SD stand up to any of the above combos????
Ya know we buy the better outboard units and end up spending that much or more...so what the real scoop on the SD pre and ADC????hummmmm ???
sure I'm all for the HDD but want to record the flavor I like (not that this doesn't do it but we don't know what is really sounds like). So to me that is a lot od $$$$for a HDD.
jah
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Don't think we are going to know that until it comes out... Surely it'll be something comparable to any of the above units/combos you mentioned. If not, there will be a flood in the marketplace.
The price is high, but is there another company putting out a competitive product? Not really. The only thing that I would consider ballpark is the the PDA recorder, only b/c of its 24/96 compatibility, and it doesn't have a pre/ad. I have a friend that has the pda recorder up and running, and he seems to like it alot. However, it cost him well over a grand. The nice thing about it is that he can mix and match the front end to his liking. The bad thing is that he has to deal with a palm pilot. Either way, he has over $2500 invested in the pda and v3.
With any luck, I'll have a 722 to run at the Stockholm Syndrome shows in Charleston at the end of May. It'll be run head to head with the v3>pda.
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after getting burned by Apogee on the MiniMe I'm a little gun shy. I hope it sounds great but I'm nervous...
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after getting burned by Apogee on the MiniMe
Pun intended?
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:lol:
not at all, glad you caught it!
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News on the FAQ page...
What are the pros and cons of your transformer-less preamp design?
Way back in 1998, when developing our first product, the MP-1, we built a number of prototypes with different transformer combinations with the typical premium transformer brands. Matt Anderson, our chief engineer, had designed a few mic-level transformers in an earlier life, so he was particularly critical of their construction and electrical performance. Matt used a Lundahl part in our first product's circuit because of its excellent handling of high signal levels, low distortion--particularly at low frequencies, and wide dynamic range. It also is a good part mechanically and its footprint is convenient on a circuit board. That original MP-1 preamp is the basic core of preamps in the MM-1, MP-2 (discontinued), MixPre, 302, and 442. You can bet that we will use it again in later field mixer designs.
Quality mic-level audio transformers have excellent common-mode rejection, galvanic isolation, plus passive gain. That last point is quite useful in a field mixer powered by a few penlight batteries. Transformers are a benefit in the field, especially with unknown audio sources. In addition, they have their own sonic characteristics by being somewhat non-linear. Their downside
is that they are physically large, heavy, and expensive (for good ones).
Enter the recorder...
To keep size and weight of the recorder down, and since we have the luxury of (relatively) ample current via our Li-Ion battery, we pursued designing a circuit which equals a transformer all the way around. This unique input stage is a classic long-tailed pair (using some very low noise discrete transistors) with some unique twists. Very high common mode impedance is
acheived, which yields excellent common mode rejection. One of the most wonderful aspects of a well designed transformer stage is low noise at low gains. Most transformerless input stages (SSM2017, INA163, etc) do have excellent noise performance - with the input trim cranked to 60 dB of gain. This new circuit has very low noise across the gain range, has extremely low THD (0.0005%) and has excellent noise cancelling characteristics. We feel that it rivals or betters any mic pre on the market sonically, transformer or transformerless.
I still would like to know a bit more about the gain structure of the unit: What is the minimal amount of gain applied with the unit is set to 'mic in'?
If we knew that, it would settle some questions about running a brick in front... If the gain kicks in at +20dbs ala the mp-2, then it won't work and you'll have to deal with stepped attenuation, but if its starts at +10 like with the v3, then we're golden.
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News on the FAQ page...
I still would like to know a bit more about the gain structure of the unit: What is the minimal amount of gain applied with the unit is set to 'mic in'?
If we knew that, it would settle some questions about running a brick in front... If the gain kicks in at +20dbs ala the mp-2, then it won't work and you'll have to deal with stepped attenuation, but if its starts at +10 like with the v3, then we're golden.
Why the brick in front of a pre that claims to be the holiest of the holies ?
Do you need that much more gain ?
Any word on an SD722RAW ? How about a price ?
$2800 is large investment for a sport recorder.
Too bad full modularity wasn't added in.
A Pre-A/D board, a controller board, interface board, etc.
How about the warantee ?
Check out the complexity of the 4-Layer circuit board on a MixPre (http://www.video-systems.ch/snddev/products/mixpre_internals.htm)
I'd hate to ever have be concerned with repair work on it, and I'm sure the same is true of the SD-7XX machines.
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i HOPE to have one for field testing during telluride bluegrass. obviously, i want to run the v3 in front of it, but will give it a go as a stand alone 50% of the time.
jr
You know we want to hear that !
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Why the brick in front of a pre that claims to be the holiest of the holies ?
Do you need that much more gain ?
Has nothing to do with needing more gain. I would simply like to add a little color to my mics. I ran a brick in front of a v3 about a half dozen times this past fall and I really liked the warm results.
The other option would be running the unit line in from a soundboard where you don't have control over the signal. It would be easier to tell the sound guy to set the levels conservatively and add gain rather than tell him to guess at decent levels and then try to attenuate the signal leaving clicks on the master.
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The other option would be running the unit line in from a soundboard where you don't have control over the signal. It would be easier to tell the sound guy to set the levels conservatively and add gain rather than tell him to guess at decent levels and then try to attenuate the signal leaving clicks on the master.
OK, I get the use of the brick to color the sound, but then you must not be using line-in, as the brick is fixed gain, true ?
I'm sort of confused on the SBD>>Line-in and click reference.
Isn't there a trim control like on a V3 ? Are the major gain steps mechanical switch or opto-isolated ? Why is it easier and quieter to add gain than to attenuate the line-in ?
Sorry for the dumb newbie questions, but I really want to understand what I'm getting myself into before sinking this year's lunch money into this box.
-Bob
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An FYI, Doug Oade is talking about a mod to the Fostex FR-2 to give SD a run for the their $$$$.
Ya gotta love America ! :bouncy: :banana:
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If you take a look at the SD website, they mention that 'mic in' on the unit offers continuous analog gain and that 'line in' on the unit has .5 db stepped attenuation. Nutter inquired about the stepped attenuation and they responded that it would leave noisey artifacts.
Will Doug be able to modify the FR-2 so that its the same size as the 722 and has a 20, 40, or 60gig hard drive?
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Has nothing to do with needing more gain. I would simply like to add a little color to my mics. I ran a brick in front of a v3 about a half dozen times this past fall and I really liked the warm results.
just buy neumanns :P
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d4r|< s1d3 pwn5 j00
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darkside definately ownz
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If you take a look at the SD website, they mention that 'mic in' on the unit offers continuous analog gain and that 'line in' on the unit has .5 db stepped attenuation. Nutter inquired about the stepped attenuation and they responded that it would leave noisey artifacts.
Will Doug be able to modify the FR-2 so that its the same size as the 722 and has a 20, 40, or 60gig hard drive?
2800 and noisy artifacts line-in? Probably too much gain to be able to run outboard fixed gain pre anyway? Was this a collaborative effort with apogee? Pretty presumptuous of SD to build something that is going to be essentially a one-box, when they have never built an a/d and the best pre they have turned out is the MP-2? Weak :fullmoon:
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If you take a look at the SD website, they mention that 'mic in' on the unit offers continuous analog gain and that 'line in' on the unit has .5 db stepped attenuation. Nutter inquired about the stepped attenuation and they responded that it would leave noisey artifacts.
Will Doug be able to modify the FR-2 so that its the same size as the 722 and has a 20, 40, or 60gig hard drive?
I don't want to debate the various features of these two boxes.
The SD722 is a very cool toy, but expensive for a hobbyist.
Doug is making for competition, a good thing for pricing overall, and the industry.
The hard drive issue is interesting. There's strong sentiment that HD recorders will go into obsolesence when removable media become larger, faster, smaller, cheaper. The ability to remove and plug a flash card is faster and more accurate than a transfer to a DAW.
Now, if Doug can make the FR-2 smaller, I'll buy him the pointy wizard hat. ;D
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bob, as per the hd issue i think we are looking off into the more distant future for that, not the next year or so. i give it 3-5 years before we are willing to eliminate hd's. the technology is just too expensive right now. coming down in price, but just too much. plus not at the 10+ gig range yet.
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Knowing I'm practically a stranger around here and that forum username unfamiliarity typically foments suspicion...
I would humbly submit that I found the construction quality of the FR-2 to be on a [desperately grasping] par with that of a late-production-cycle Teddy Ruxpin (the Korean knockoff with fur made from the ashes of ground-up American flags).
Not to offend any Plushies who still enjoy a certain enthusiatic robotic teddy bear (everyone gets lonely), but I'd venture to guess that even they'd admit a woeful inadequacy in the structural integrity in the FR-2 should they have purchased one to record their clothy "interactions".
I've got a 722 on preorder from a dealer down the street.
FUCK FOSTEX for disgracing the PD-2 (& even the 4). Price notwithstanding, but they pretended the thing wasn't a toy...
(My words probably forged from thirstfully tipping the bubbling kiln of cheap beer and stupidity)
Stuart (a very cool name for a tru playa)
I suck. But I make a living screwing around with noise.
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ditto to what boogie said
as much as mr natelsky is bashing this thing now, we all know he'll buy one anyway :)
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he buys one of everything
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sometimes 2! :D
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Won't the Fostex be just as expensive as the 722 after all is said and done?
FR2 = $1300
4 x 5gig pcmcia cards = $ 800
Oade mod =??= > $ 300
---------
$2400
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Ah! but which will be better - that is a more appropraite question...bwahahahahahaha
(you know doug's box will kick ass - but that ass of SD? who knows)
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>>(you know doug's box will kick ass - but that ass of SD? who knows)<<
how do we know his box will kick ass?
and isn't a big issue with the fostex box that it's built so cheaply? sound devices products are notorious for being built like tanks. you can practically run over an mp2 and it'll still work
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i cant believe some of you guyz are preordering these w/ out hearing them, what if it soundz like CRAP and you wanna sell immediately
also, i have some 24bit stuff, its prolly my playback, but i couldnt justify spending that kind of cash JUST for 24 bit...
when a jb3 is 180 bux
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i cant believe some of you guyz are preordering these w/ out hearing them, what if it soundz like CRAP and you wanna sell immediately
also, i have some 24bit stuff, its prolly my playback, but i couldnt justify spending that kind of cash JUST for 24 bit...
when a jb3 is 180 bux
I preordered because Location Sound had sold their last one, so guilty over here. Did it through B&H though, and they took it back without a so much as asking why I didn't like it. Ate the shipping, though. Twenty five bucks to find out it wasn't the box, not great, but not the end of the world either. Your point is valid though, but I was in a hurry to get something for an upcoming shoot.
It's funny, I took the FR-2 out of the box and put it right back in without even turning it on. My DAP-1 is built like a brick in comparison. I'm always running around, falling down embankments, bumping into walls, etc. when I'm field recording, and that box looked and felt like it wouldn't survive day #1. Just my opinion, and I hate to trash manufacturers, but I feel like if I'm loud about this one I just might save somebody some pain and money down the road.
S.
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>>i cant believe some of you guyz are preordering these w/ out hearing them, what if it soundz like CRAP and you wanna sell immediately<<
Some people are preordering because they simply want a hard disk recorder that is rugged and will do high bit/sample rates. Remember, the HHB was VERY expensive (still is) when it came out. The DA-P1 also wasn't a cheap box, yet people used it for a recorder only.
>>also, i have some 24bit stuff, its prolly my playback, but i couldnt justify spending that kind of cash JUST for 24 bit...<<
It may be your playback. I really started to hear a difference at 24/96. 24/48 not so much...
>>a jb3 is 180 bux<<
can you step on a jb3 while it records? Sound Devices products can take a beating
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im not skeptical of the sound, but of the bugs. this is really untested waters for everyone involved. id like to wait for gen 2 to consider buying one. i want to see if the unit has locking problems, how their master word clock works, etc. im not ruling it out, but for now my laptop seems pretty comforting.
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i cant believe some of you guyz are preordering these w/ out hearing them, what if it soundz like CRAP and you wanna sell immediately
also, i have some 24bit stuff, its prolly my playback, but i couldnt justify spending that kind of cash JUST for 24 bit...
when a jb3 is 180 bux
Point noted. Its a leap of faith I guess, but I can justify it on several levels:
I have 2 friends within 15 miles who both run the same rig as I do with the exception of different capsules.
I feel mics make the most impact on the sound of a recording and I am 100% happy with the sound I get out of my mics. I mean, worst case scenario, this thing will sound like a straight MMe recording... and I'll always have access to a V3.
Size matters to me. The less I carry, the happier I am. No matter how dependable the jb3 is these days, I don't want to add two boxes, more cables, or converters to my bag.
I haven't bought anything new for the rig in over a year. I haven't played musical rigs and am not in debt from any purcahses. Time for a change in the rig and to start focusing on the playback system...
I am ready to move away from 16/44. I fucking hate CDs. They are clutter. I can't wait to have the opportunity to have it all on one disc.
I will have the opportunity to run the unit before I actually purchase my own. If I *really* hate it, I can always spend the $200 on something else...
The fact that they are sending the first productin run to the retailers is comforting to me. That helps to prevent the same thing that occurred with the MMe from happening with the 7-Series.
Regardlezz, I may get burned, and that is a risk I am willing to take. If it doesn't work out, at least I got to try something new out. In my situation, I just don't want to wait another few years on a device that isn't even in the works yet.
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Any word from SD on meeting the delivery target for end of May?
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heh-heh-heh
A sentence that includes "SD" and "delivery target."
I won't even say it ! ;D
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Any word from SD on meeting the delivery target for end of May?
hopefully we'll have some more solid info on the 18th
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i cant believe some of you guyz are preordering these w/ out hearing them, what if it soundz like CRAP and you wanna sell immediately
also, i have some 24bit stuff, its prolly my playback, but i couldnt justify spending that kind of cash JUST for 24 bit...
when a jb3 is 180 bux
Point noted. Its a leap of faith I guess, but I can justify it on several levels:
I have 2 friends within 15 miles who both run the same rig as I do with the exception of different capsules.
I feel mics make the most impact on the sound of a recording and I am 100% happy with the sound I get out of my mics. I mean, worst case scenario, this thing will sound like a straight MMe recording... and I'll always have access to a V3.
Size matters to me. The less I carry, the happier I am. No matter how dependable the jb3 is these days, I don't want to add two boxes, more cables, or converters to my bag.
I haven't bought anything new for the rig in over a year. I haven't played musical rigs and am not in debt from any purcahses. Time for a change in the rig and to start focusing on the playback system...
I am ready to move away from 16/44. I fucking hate CDs. They are clutter. I can't wait to have the opportunity to have it all on one disc.
I will have the opportunity to run the unit before I actually purchase my own. If I *really* hate it, I can always spend the $200 on something else...
The fact that they are sending the first productin run to the retailers is comforting to me. That helps to prevent the same thing that occurred with the MMe from happening with the 7-Series.
Regardlezz, I may get burned, and that is a risk I am willing to take. If it doesn't work out, at least I got to try something new out. In my situation, I just don't want to wait another few years on a device that isn't even in the works yet.
totally cool william, i am just gonna sit back while ya'll test it ;D
i bet its one fine piece of machinery, but i persoanlly cant justify that kinda loot for what id be using as a strict recorder :)
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but i persoanlly cant justify that kinda loot for what id be using as a strict recorder :)
But what if the pre and a/d stage sounds better than a V3?
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but i persoanlly cant justify that kinda loot for what id be using as a strict recorder :)
But what if the pre and a/d stage sounds better than a V3?
according to doug and his love affair for all things Grace, that's just not possible.
quote from the FR-2 thread over at oade:
"I think it's going to be darn tough to beat the performance of my V3 with the pre/ADC front end on an all-in-one pre/ADC/recorder box."
Do not hold your breath on this one. There are very few engineers who can do what Grace does !
peace...Doug
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I just hope the front end of the 722 is good enough that I can bear listening to it after those rare occasions when I can't bring in the V3 ahead of it. I think for stealth situations where all-in-one box with internal batteries is the only option, the 722 will be fine. At least, that's what I'm hoping for.
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but i persoanlly cant justify that kinda loot for what id be using as a strict recorder :)
But what if the pre and a/d stage sounds better than a V3?
according to doug and his love affair for all things Grace, that's just not possible.
quote from the FR-2 thread over at oade:
"I think it's going to be darn tough to beat the performance of my V3 with the pre/ADC front end on an all-in-one pre/ADC/recorder box."
Do not hold your breath on this one. There are very few engineers who can do what Grace does !
peace...Doug
thats one thing i kinda agree w/ doug, i know i havent ran a grace too long personally, but all/most of my fav tapes have them in the lineage somewhere;)
but he could also be saying that because hes 'modding' fr-2's...and doesnt want ppl's money spent on the 722, but if he believes its better, we'll have to see, a 1000 less price tag is a lil more inriguing
either way, i hope to enjoy many recordings recorded w/ both units and maybe get one myself if i can justify the $$ and jump from 16 to 24-bit 8)
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i agree, i love grace products, but doug's unending praise for all things ever touched by Mike "King Midas" Grace goes a little overboard sometimes. i am so ready for 24bit, i almost have to buy this box and give it a shot. i'm stuck right on the fence though. i paid the deposit to cascade. i used to have the #1 spot on the list, but frank was less than committed to my keeping that spot for some reason. but, i really can't justify the cost in any rational way unless i sell the v3. huge roll of the dice.
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show me how to stealth a 722 at a decent sized metal show out west and you get a cookie!
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i agree, i love grace products, but doug's unending praise for all things ever touched by Mike "King Midas" Grace goes a little overboard sometimes. i am so ready for 24bit, i almost have to buy this box and give it a shot. i'm stuck right on the fence though. i paid the deposit to cascade. i used to have the #1 spot on the list, but frank was less than committed to my keeping that spot for some reason. but, i really can't justify the cost in any rational way unless i sell the v3. huge roll of the dice.
def a roll of the dice, if its da bomb, i'll prolly sell the v3 too, but i just dont see it happening, never know tho, i actually hope it does so i can
a. get a real "all-in-one" box
and
b. go 24 bit at the same time
and
c. also have the best pre/ad to my ears if it can beat the v3 sonically
damnit, that thing needs to come out 8)
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i can get a bogen 3373 up there, the 722 has to fit.
smiley pays for gay sex.
fkinder
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i don't think the v3 is all that at 2496. there are probably a few boxes that sound better than it right now
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show me how to stealth a 722 at a decent sized metal show out west and you get a cookie!
The SD722 is/willbe smaller than a DAP1. I've seen people stealth a DAP1 before. I wont be stealthing at shows where they are wanding people. There are not that many people trying to get guns and knives into the Barns of Wolftrap.
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yeah, well you didn't exactly tell me how so no cookie. People say they "stealthed" a laptop and 2 12V SLAs.
"Excuse me, Taper Big Balls coming through, excuse me, if you could just make room for my giant ass nut in the pit that'll be helpful, thank you" ::)
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it depends on the situation, but a board member here has gotten proficient with stealthing a V3 and 6V lately...
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yeah, well you didn't exactly tell me how so no cookie. People say they "stealthed" a laptop and 2 12V SLAs.
"Excuse me, Taper Big Balls coming through, excuse me, if you could just make room for my giant ass nut in the pit that'll be helpful, thank you" ::)
Thats a funny image. Big rectangular nut.
You can get stuff into a show in other ways. You don't have to crotch everything. I've gotten things in by putting gear in the bottom of a bag, with questionable items on top. Food usually works well. I throw a big fucking fit about why I can't bring apples in to eat, the food inside is expensive, what a fucking rip-off, etc. They make me throw out the food and then forget to look further. I look for a line where someone is getting busted for bringing in booze, and then act disgusted and complain that I'm about to piss my pants/please just let me in. It just depends on the situation. If it's full pat downs and metal detectors, you are SOL anyway.
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not necessarily
-
not necessarily
I'm not that good yet.
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not necessarily
I'm not that good yet.
me neither, but I know a couple who are ;D
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jedi stealth tricks?
I don't live in an ass backwards part of the country ;)
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jedi stealth tricks?
I don't live in an ass backwards part of the country ;)
yeah, thats it...for what it is worth, v3's batts, etc have been smuggled into MSG as well...
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[1] my ass is not the mystery mobile and
[2] it doesn't have a secret compartment, wilma
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jedi stealth tricks?
I don't live in an ass backwards part of the country ;)
yeah, thats it...for what it is worth, v3's batts, etc have been smuggled into MSG as well...
MSG has pretty weak security overall...they didn't even look in my bigass bag for Panic halloween.
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MSG has pretty weak security overall...they didn't even look in my bigass bag for Panic halloween.
Whats the point of checking bags at a show where 30% of the people are in costume? There's no telling how much shit you could smuggle inside a spongebob squarepants costume.
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touche. you would know, wouldn't you?
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I wish I had a spongebob costume. I'd be wearing it right now. I work from home.
Actually I got searched pretty thuroughly going into that show. The guy had to call someone over and there was a discussion about my gear. There was some childrens event in the theater and I think they thought I was going to tape Raffi or whatever it was.
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i got some attitude night 1, but once it was cleared, they didn't even look. night 2 they just waved me in.
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>>The SD722 is/willbe smaller than a DAP1. I've seen people stealth a DAP1 before<<
Mark Nutter saw one and says it's v3-sized
>>MSG has pretty weak security overall...they didn't even look in my bigass bag for Panic halloween. <<
for non-taper-friendly shows, they definitely wand everyone
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ie. the AD2K. didn't really care for it at 16bit, but at 24 it sure sounds sweet.
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ie. the AD2K. didn't really care for it at 16bit, but at 24 it sure sounds sweet.
but you can pretty much only run it with a v2 or an m248...
-
or an mp2, psp3, sx-m2... but who's counting?
-
:lol:
only Grace and Oade pres need apply ;)
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>>MSG has pretty weak security overall...they didn't even look in my bigass bag for Panic halloween. <<
for non-taper-friendly shows, they definitely wand everyone
I got wanded once when i went to see REM, they even patted me down, felt my MD in my jacket pocket, asked me what i had in there and i replied, "oh, thats my wallet" and they let me through.
Hell of a lot better than Hammerstein ballroom, the security their are a bunch of meat heads.
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>>The SD722 is/willbe smaller than a DAP1. I've seen people stealth a DAP1 before<<
Mark Nutter saw one and says it's v3-sized
smaller
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smaller still! sorry, missing out on the debate i have no real part of :D can't help but be a part of a 21 p debate
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looks like the 722 is vaporware no more... SD put a picture up!
(http://www.sounddevices.com/images/products/7-stack.jpg)
other points of interest include:
Line level input adjustment in 0.1 dB increments
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picture looks hella cool, i wish i had an endless amount of money, id buy one, or a 744;)
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any sense on how/where you mount the camcorder battery or how big the 5000mA camcorder batteries are?
-
the unit is only 1.65" x 4.41" x 7.58" in size. Not sure on the size of the larger batteries
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i figure the batteries get mounted externally right? at least the big ones do?
it says "removable Lion battery"...that suggests internal to me...but i think the bigger ones likely won't fit? i'm confused as usual.
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I thought that I saw in one of the videos that the battery was mounted on a clip on the back of the unit. It's supposed to be like one of those removable camcorder battery mounts, no?
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I thought that I saw in one of the videos that the battery was mounted on a clip on the back of the unit. It's supposed to be like one of those removable camcorder battery mounts, no?
i think that's most likely right, but i've never watched any of those videos.
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I thought that I saw in one of the videos that the battery was mounted on a clip on the back of the unit. It's supposed to be like one of those removable camcorder battery mounts, no?
That's exactly what I assumed when I read it used the sony camcorder batteries.
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Get your asses over to http://www.coffeysound.tv/ and download the clip called "NAB 2004". The 744 is at the 15.10 mark. There you can see that the battery will not protrude when using the smaller sized batteries.
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just watched the clip...
Looks great and the battery space looks like it wouldn't be an issue.
Unfortunately: "expected out by the end of July"
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I'm actually getting excited about this one (finally). ;D
Just FYI, it looks like Doug Oade has a working, MOD Fostex FR-2 already.
No word on price, but he has said that he's posting sound samples this week.
Choices !
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pretty good view of the back of the 722 in that video. looks like it will take the largest sony battery you can get your hands on. i liked those stealth mics at around 13 minutes.
jr
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just wait until I get my v4, I'll put all those puny SD boxes to shame
:turnevil:
</sarcasm>
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just wait until I get my v4, I'll put all those puny SD boxes to shame
:turnevil:
</sarcasm>
why is everyone waiting to get a v4? at least they're shipping on schedule.
jr
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hopefully we'll have some more solid info on the 18th
What was supposed to happen today?
I'm starting to go crazy over this. Sometime in the next week I need to order an 80g HD or a bunch of tape.
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hopefully we'll have some more solid info on the 18th
What was supposed to happen today?
I'm starting to go crazy over this. Sometime in the next week I need to order an 80g HD or a bunch of tape.
what happened today was that we met with jon tatooles of sd and were given some training/overview with the 744t. these things have some awesome features.
jr
both units, front and back with schoeps for scale
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here is the front panel display, which lights up or not(when in 'stealth' mode, all display goes dark) top left is battery meter, below it is the CF card meter, the internal drive meter, and the external drive meter. the meters indicate how much recording time there is left on drive(s) depending on bit/freq selected.
version two will be able to record to and read from an external device via the firewire port
next column:
file name, absolute time, time code, channels assigned(dark)
right column:
date/time, bits, freq, don't know
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digi side. spdif i/o on ch 1&2 only. will output only at rate recorded at.
c-link for data daisy chain. black button on left multifunction, mainly for scrolling through menu(79 top layers)
jr
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analog i/o(sort of)
the xlr's will be turned upright and switches moved up also.
the top and bottom will be aluminium and thicker, the front, rear and sides are stainless.
jr
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back with battery area, uses standard sony camcorder batt. shipping with the one in the center. end of sla's.
the LEDs are, as always, blinding, when turned all the way up. but, they are totally adjustable, and as mentioned above, able to go into stealth mode, where nothing is illuminated. the meters will be renumbered, where -60 will be -50.
jr
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nice!!
is the external drive hooked up to a lappy??? looks like its running low??
also, how long do the sony batts go for???
and one more, it shows an aes/spdif i/o on the same side, how is that possible??? looks like a bnc connection??? i didnt know aes could be sent via bnc???
thanks guyz!!
bean
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right column:
date/time, bits, freq, don't know
The "don't know" is likely for SMPTE - 30 ND = 30 fps, non-dropping. I would think 24, 25, and 29 DF are also options.
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some features:
10 sec preroll, meaning you can have it recording to the buffer all the time, so, if you miss the first note and preroll is enabled, hit record, and you haven't missed anything. at 16/44, 5 at 24/96
programable start/stop, like a vcr. super sealth, if needed.
cueing within track.
user peak adjust. if you know you only want to go up to -02, you can set that to be 0.
monophonic and polyphonic .wav files
user adjustable delay on each channel
on board aa batt for clock
etc, etc...
more as i remember, or nutter checks his notes and chimes in
this thing is so sweet. hopefully we'll have them to use at red rocks and telluride.
jr
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I don't like how the meters are numbered. They have -12 way at the top. Right next to 0, basically.
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Thanks for the pictures!
Is there a part number for that power connecctor?
What if there is a battery installed and an external DC source? will the battery attempt to charge off the DC source?
Is there a manual ready yet or any word on the HD installation proceedure?
programable start/stop, like a vcr. super sealth, if needed.
[\quote]
With a big ass HD, just start it in the car ;-)
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nice!!
is the external drive hooked up to a lappy??? looks like its running low??
also, how long do the sony batts go for???
and one more, it shows an aes/spdif i/o on the same side, how is that possible??? looks like a bnc connection??? i didnt know aes could be sent via bnc???
thanks guyz!!
bean
no external drive or CF hooked up, the only drive on that display is the internal.
batteries shown will run the unit for approx 7 hrs.
i'll get back to you on the aes/spdif
jr
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right column:
date/time, bits, freq, don't know
The "don't know" is likely for SMPTE - 30 ND = 30 fps, non-dropping. I would think 24, 25, and 29 DF are also options.
you're right
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I don't like how the meters are numbered. They have -12 way at the top. Right next to 0, basically.
they're to be renumbered for production
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I don't like how the meters are numbered. They have -12 way at the top. Right next to 0, basically.
they're to be renumbered for production
I don't like how the meters are numbered. They have -12 way at the top. Right next to 0, basically.
Yeah, kinda interesting. Five increments to go from -40 > -30, yet only three to go from -12 > 0. More granularity in the -40/-30 range than the -12/0 range. Huh. Maybe greater granularity that far down the scale is useful for film/tv/radio type stuff and granularity farther up the scale isn't very useful?
Well, I was gonna post the above, but then you chimed in again, JR. Any idea what the new arrangement will be?
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so when will they ship?!? :)
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I don't like how the meters are numbered. They have -12 way at the top. Right next to 0, basically.
they're to be renumbered for production
I don't like how the meters are numbered. They have -12 way at the top. Right next to 0, basically.
Yeah, kinda interesting. Five increments to go from -40 > -30, yet only three to go from -12 > 0. More granularity in the -40/-30 range than the -12/0 range. Huh. Maybe greater granularity that far down the scale is useful for film/tv/radio type stuff and granularity farther up the scale isn't very useful?
Well, I was gonna post the above, but then you chimed in again, JR. Any idea what the new arrangement will be?
irst number on meter will be -50. and they will be tighter, with moore room on the top end, i believe.
jr
-
Thanks for the pictures!
Is there a part number for that power connecctor?
What if there is a battery installed and an external DC source? will the battery attempt to charge off the DC source?
Is there a manual ready yet or any word on the HD installation proceedure?
programable start/stop, like a vcr. super sealth, if needed.
[\quote]
With a big ass HD, just start it in the car ;-)
it's a 4 pin hirose connector,don't know the part number. pins 1/4 for running the unit, pins 2/3 for charging the battery. for DC, just use 1/4, for AC, use all four.
he was working on the manual when we were leaving.
jr
-
so when will they ship?!? :)
july (?)
jr
-
so when will they ship?!? :)
july (?)
jr
you gotta be fucking kidding me.
-
it's a 4 pin hirose connector,don't know the part number. pins 1/4 for running the unit, pins 2/3 for charging the battery. for DC, just use 1/4, for AC, use all four.
he was working on the manual when we were leaving.
jr
Battery. John, were you sleeping? ;)
There is no need for an external battery. One of those large $70.00 or under Sony or RayOVacs will run the unit for over 3 hours. I can't foresee ever buying another sla (unless I need the heavy festivarian 12v).
Marc
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Gain range of the preamp section? At what signal does it produce 0dBFS with everything turned down?
-
JULY? damn....sold the laptop...
-
There is no need for an external battery. One of those large $70.00 or under Sony or RayOVacs will run the unit for over 3 hours. I can't foresee ever buying another sla (unless I need the heavy festivarian 12v).
Marc
What show runs three hours including the opener? And a festival can be 10-12 hrs a day for 3 days. And when I'm running across states between shows, I can't charge the $70 camcorder battery but a $20 SLA should run a couple shows. I can see alot of use for an external SLA with one of these unless the Li battery will run 4-5 hours. Did you guys happen to learn the current draw through the external DC port?
Were you guys just bullshitting about July?
-
I don't like how the meters are numbered. They have -12 way at the top. Right next to 0, basically.
they're to be renumbered for production
Cool. I thought you were saying that only the bottom number was going to be changed.
-
I wouldn't sell those laptops yet. I just found out that my order is scheduled for delivery in late June.
-
these things CAN use the large 5000 or 6000mA camcorder batteries right? for 5-6 hours? i know we've discusses this in the past, but I just wanted to make sure again (posts in the past day or so only mentioned 3 hours with large camcorder batteries)
-
these things CAN use the large 5000 or 6000mA camcorder batteries right? for 5-6 hours? i know we've discusses this in the past, but I just wanted to make sure again (posts in the past day or so only mentioned 3 hours with large camcorder batteries)
Hi Scott and All,
Yeah, it looks like it will accept any battery that is the same physical length. The only difference with the bigger batteries is that they will protrude further off the back. We only mentioned the batteries that we saw yesterday being used to actually operate the unit.
Marc
-
There is no need for an external battery. One of those large $70.00 or under Sony or RayOVacs will run the unit for over 3 hours. I can't foresee ever buying another sla (unless I need the heavy festivarian 12v).
Marc
What show runs three hours including the opener? And a festival can be 10-12 hrs a day for 3 days. And when I'm running across states between shows, I can't charge the $70 camcorder battery but a $20 SLA should run a couple shows. I can see alot of use for an external SLA with one of these unless the Li battery will run 4-5 hours. Did you guys happen to learn the current draw through the external DC port?
Were you guys just bullshitting about July?
Great points. Still as Scott mentioned, and we didn't in our posts, knowing Scott had already written about it earlier, the 6000mA version will give us nearly 6 hours per battery.
Still cooler is the fact that you could use your sla with a properly wired Hirose cable and actually charge the internal battery while you are "running across the country" but only have to carry-in the light-weight Sony or Rayovac cell when you are running across the parking lot.
Oh, and about July...
We mentioned it as speculation and were told "that's conservative." It could be earlier....
Still, wouldn't we rather be surprised by an arrival a little earlier than yet another delay around that time???
Marc
-
Hey Boswell and All,
I didn't notice if John mentioned this or not.
We took a 744T and set it up for line in operation. With headphones, and NO AUDIO INPUT SIGNAL you can barely hear a little tick as you turn the dial increasing or decreasing in .1dB increments. It's there but I think it won't be a major issue to worry about when it comes to hitting these guys with concert level audio on the inputs.
Still, SD recommends using a pre-amp with continuous gain or using the onboard pre as they claim it will be fantastic.
We used a Schoeps mic and spoke into and listened to each other speaking during the session yesterday. Nice and quiet as one would expect. Still, without a direct a/b comparison, it is too soon to comment.
Marc
-
Still cooler is the fact that you could use your sla with a properly wired Hirose cable and actually charge the internal battery while you are "running across the country" but only have to carry-in the light-weight Sony or Rayovac cell when you are running across the parking lot.
this is very cool, IMO, this is my whole idea behind the jb3/12v batt thing, leave the 12v at your campsite or whatever, then charge after each show, the jb3 wont die foir many shows, or in a festival setting, just have a couple sla's if really needed to get even more extended run times
i like the idea that we can charge on the road w/ all thse lion or lithium batts, w/ sla's!!!
the days of actually carrying them in most venues is most def gone, just internals for the most pat(what i conside the sony batts too)
-
Great points. Still as Scott mentioned, and we didn't in our posts, knowing Scott had already written about it earlier, the 6000mA version will give us nearly 6 hours per battery.
Still cooler is the fact that you could use your sla with a properly wired Hirose cable and actually charge the internal battery while you are "running across the country" but only have to carry-in the light-weight Sony or Rayovac cell when you are running across the parking lot.
Oh, and about July...
We mentioned it as speculation and were told "that's conservative." It could be earlier....
Still, wouldn't we rather be surprised by an arrival a little earlier than yet another delay around that time???
Marc
Thanks Marc,
I do think that 5-6 hours will be plenty for most shows. I have in mind some low profile situations where I will need to start the recorder in the lot and go inside with it running in a purse, so that will not work with a 3 hour battery. I read above about the delayed record timer, but that relies on a fixed start time for the set.
Did you guys get any info on the external power source current draw? I'm interested in putting together power supplies before it gets here.
Unless "could be earlier" means in my hands before Bonnaroo, the delivery of my unit will be as anti-climactic as my morning bran flakes.
-
Hey Boswell and All,
I didn't notice if John mentioned this or not.
We took a 744T and set it up for line in operation. With headphones, and NO AUDIO INPUT SIGNAL you can barely hear a little tick as you turn the dial increasing or decreasing in .1dB increments. It's there but I think it won't be a major issue to worry about when it comes to hitting these guys with concert level audio on the inputs.
Still, SD recommends using a pre-amp with continuous gain or using the onboard pre as they claim it will be fantastic.
We used a Schoeps mic and spoke into and listened to each other speaking during the session yesterday. Nice and quiet as one would expect. Still, without a direct a/b comparison, it is too soon to comment.
Marc
If you can barely hear it with no audio signal, I bet that you'll not notice any gain change at a show a la v3 5db steps... sounds like m148 users will be happy.
Thanks Marc, for the info and the avitar!
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the days of actually carrying them in most venues is most def gone, just internals for the most pat(what i conside the sony batts too)
Unless you front with a V3. ;-)
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the days of actually carrying them in most venues is most def gone, just internals for the most pat(what i conside the sony batts too)
Unless you front with a V3. ;-)
haha, thats merely a 6v tho, i laugh at 6v's...j/k
seriosuly tho, a 6v 7.2amp lasts 2...3hrs shows easily tho, so thats an sla i will carry ;)
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seriosuly tho, a 6v 7.2amp lasts 2...3hrs shows easily tho, so thats an sla i will carry
2-3 hours? how many amps is the V3 pulling?
a V2 pulls about 700mAH and I easily get 5-6+ hours off a 6v 4ah sla
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i think he meant *2* 3 hour shows....so roughly 6+ hours of use :)
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i think he meant *2* 3 hour shows....so roughly 6+ hours of use :)
ah, that makes a *little* more sense :)
-
sheet metal pilfered from a construction site? :o
-
:lol: looks like something my dad would order from the shop!
good call Marc, knew it looked for familiar.. no tinners in your family, are there?
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:lol: looks like something my dad would order from the shop!
good call Marc, knew it looked for familiar.. no tinners in your family, are there?
:lol:
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Did you guys get any info on the external power source current draw? I'm interested in putting together power supplies before it gets here.
Unless "could be earlier" means in my hands before Bonnaroo, the delivery of my unit will be as anti-climactic as my morning bran flakes.
Hey Teabag,
I wouldn't be optimistic about pre-Bonnaroo. We're begging for Red Rocks Dead and Telluride Bluegrass but that would only be a pre-release unit. Still, I don't have high expectations...only high hopes : )
Current draw specs. aren't finalized as they indicated various combinations have higher draws than others, and not always what I would have expected. Still, they expect it to be under and Amp.
Marc
-
so what is a realistic date? mid july?
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so what is a realistic date? mid july?
based on our converstaions with jon, yes