Topic: Hyper-cardioid mics suggestions?

[ballerusk]

I already have 4061's which are omnidirectional, but as I've learned more and more, I'm a bit curious about hyper-cardioid microphones as well. My understanding is that they get more of the sound infront with a little "bleed" back (to add the feeling of surround, I don't know) whereas with the 4061's I can be unlucky and get a blabbermouth standing behind me and ruining my recording.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microphone -> "microphone polar patterns"

Also (I'm not sure about this), there aren't any microphones that are hyper-cardioid "out-of-the-box", but need something attached to them? AT853's I think are such?

If someone has some suggestions to hypercardioid mics (that are suitable for stealthing) or a list that would be great.

Sorry for being the newbie all the time, could not find anything particular from a search what mics are hypercardioid in the "What gear should I buy"-topic.

[Sanjay]

AT 853 with a hypercard pattern
or the AT 943 with a hyper patter

both sound similar, preference to the 853, but the 943 is a bit smaller, more like DPA size.

You'll be able to get both with just the hyper capsule from soundprofessionals.com

[Javier Cinakowski]

FWIW, you might find the bass to be very disapointing on a hyper card mic as compaired to omni mics.  I do not own a hyper card for that reason.  I am sure there is a hyper card that has good bass response, but the AT853 is not one of them.

[The Other Chris]

FWIW, you might find the bass to be very disapointing on a hyper card mic as compaired to omni mics.  I do not own a hyper card for that reason.  I am sure there is a hyper card that has good bass response, but the AT853 is not one of them.

With all do respect, I disagree 100%.  I stealth w/ 853 Hypers & they pull some heavy bass.

[Will_S]

I use AT853s as well.  I wouldn't say the hypers are terribly lacking in bass, but certainly they pick up less bass than the same mics with omni or even card capsules (I've used them all).  The uniguard capsules from the new U853 line do pick up a bit more bass than the old style, at least for the hypers, the only capsule where I've tried both generations.

The AT853 is probably the cheapest stealthable hyper option worth considering.  A step up in price and size would be the Audix Micro 1290hcs, they border on being too big to stealth with but it can be done.  Then another big jump in price (but down in size, though still bigger than the AT853s) and you can think about the active versions from MBHO, Neumann, and Schoeps.

[Evil Taper]

If all you have is omnis you should buy cards next.  Cards will always sound great if they're good ones.  They're more direct and in your face than omnis but don't thin your sound like hypers.

[ballerusk]

Not sure what cards are, how much they cost or which fits 4061s, but I guess it's just something I attach to the microphones to achieve (near)-hypercardiod-sound from an omni mic?

[oleg]

audix micro 1445hc
short enouth better then most others
need 48ph

[ballerusk]

Tried googling them, but no result at all  Found this, but I don't think that was the microphone you mentioned.

[Javier Cinakowski]

FWIW, you might find the bass to be very disapointing on a hyper card mic as compaired to omni mics.  I do not own a hyper card for that reason.  I am sure there is a hyper card that has good bass response, but the AT853 is not one of them.

With all do respect, I disagree 100%.  I stealth w/ 853 Hypers & they pull some heavy bass.

I respect your opinion as well, however, the hypers in my experience do not pull anything that could be considered "heavy bass".  I am not very excited about the bass response on the AT853 cards either, though they don't sound thin like the hypers.  You must be recording some loud bands with super bass.  Or perhaps you have a preamp that is very warm sounding, to the point of amplifying the bass frequencies.  To each his own!

[oleg]

http://www.audixusa.com/products.html

m1245 , my mistake

[Sanjay]

http://www.audixusa.com/products.html

m1245 , my mistake

those require phantom power.  Also have a freq response from 80-20,000, not ideal.

The AT microphones can be used with your current church audio powering option.

[oleg]

http://www.audixusa.com/products.html

m1245 , my mistake

those require phantom power.  Also have a freq response from 80-20,000, not ideal.

The AT microphones can be used with your current church audio powering option.

the croud would do the proximity effect :-)
of course they need phantom , thats why they hold the spl so well

[ballerusk]

The AT microphones can be used with your current church audio powering option.

Don't think so as my pre-amp has microdot connectors..

[terrapinj]

Not sure what cards are, how much they cost or which fits 4061s, but I guess it's just something I attach to the microphones to achieve (near)-hypercardiod-sound from an omni mic?

in order of directionality

omni > subcard > cardiod > hypercardiod > shotgun

it really depends how much rear rejection you are wanting to accomplish. i agree that a better next step would be a cardiod pattern. i use my cards 90% of the time. while hypers may help reject some chatter behind or directly around you, they don't eliminate general chatter in a noisy room. cards will sound more natural than the hypers, especially for lower frequencies as mentioned above.

not sure what other mics are out there that terminate in microdot so you may very well end up needing a new pre as well.

what type of budget are you looking at?

[PG]

The AT microphones can be used with your current church audio powering option.

Don't think so as my pre-amp has microdot connectors..

AFAIK,There arent any other options for mics other than the DPA 4060/61/62's for a preamp with microdot connectors. If you're looking for a hypercardiods you would need another option.

[ballerusk]

I don't have a specific budget right now, but thought I would check out what my options are. I'm aware I would need a new preamp (or batt box) and from what I've read it seems the AT-series (853rx) is one of the better ones that are cardioid which limits (though not completely) noise from behind while having the "focus" on sound coming from front.

So, mics that gets the music, but also add a bit of "room" to not sound to narrow without getting chatter from behind.

As I've understood however, a good tape is often determined on your spot, not always your mics :p

[Sanjay]

The AT microphones can be used with your current church audio powering option.

Don't think so as my pre-amp has microdot connectors..

woops I thought all his had mini xlr's. 

Well you could get another CA preamp with mini xlr's and run them.

[ballerusk]

So, just to close this topic:

Best of the ATs for stealthing is 853 or 943?

Hypers - something I can add/remove on the mics at will - or - once it's on, it's on?

[Sanjay]

So, just to close this topic:

Best of the ATs for stealthing is 853 or 943?

Hypers - something I can add/remove on the mics at will - or - once it's on, it's on?

Best for size, 943, better sound (though marginally) 853

You can remove and add different capsules at will.

[ballerusk]

Thanks for the swift reply, +T to you

[ballerusk]

So when I've collected the funds I'm planning on purchasing a pair of AT943s (because of the size). Chris Church has said his 9100 preamp would work with those so I'll go for that. However I'm not sure where to purchase the mics from. SP's website: http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-8 has a few options I'm not sure I need or not:

Sensitivity option - $25 for a low sensitivity mod for very high sound levels. Since I will record rock bands/loud shows I would probably need this?

"High SPL power option" - this would be the preamp from CC, so no need for this?

"Ultra high SPL option" - XLR adapters/power supplies (AT8532) - not sure I need any of these?

I'd go for both cardioid and hyper caps, which adds $120 extra. But should I perhaps consider purchasing them elsewhere? Any suggestions would be great

[j.mart]

if you're going with 943's, and you're getting a CA-9100, be sure to ask for your 943's to terminate in miniXLR connectors. 3w powering is much more inexpensive than phantom and the only loss resides in losing about 6dB of gain and nothing else. i would ignore the hypers to be honest. get a nice pair of cardioids, you'll seriously won't need hypers after you hear the cards IMHO. your location (i.e. use your intuiton) will do the rest.. my AT omnis (though i'm using 4061s for omni right now) sound amazing alone. i use the 943's cardioids slightly more than DPAs because i tape in venues that sound like a bathroom. my honest suggestion is omni+card combination. right now i couldn't be happier with my strictly "S word" rig. my favorite cardiods for this purpose are ATs, hands down. i'd recommend card+omni, but you know far better than me which are needs

Sensitivity option - no
"High SPL power option" - no, BUT ask for your mics to already terminate in miniXLR connectors instead of 1/8'' each. maybe you'll need a custom order..
"Ultra high SPL option" - no

[F.O.Bean]

is stealth a necessity? if not, what about some AKG 393's those are pretty decent hypers for the bang for your buck. Brian Costigan used to run the 393>mp2>d-7/8 on Phish tour back in the day, and those tapes stood right up there with all the Schoeps/Neumann tapes IMO. and they dont lack bass either, theyre a nice, full sounding hyper IMO.

And if stealthing is a necessity, what about getting the extensions for the 390 series?

or if you are set on mini AT's, why not get BOTH the cards and hypers? they cant be that expensive a pair......

I personally run hypers 99% of the time but I record openly ALL of the time and can raise my stand prewtty high to avoid annoying chatter, and when I do that, even at 12ft in the air, you hear next to NO chatter, just a nice, focused recording, not lacking in bass either, but I run AKG 483 hypers and MBHO ka500hn hypers> Sound Devices 722. those combos cant be ebaten IMO. if you can afford a grand ($1,000) for mics, get the AKG 460/480 with the ck63 hypoers caps. Actually, there are a pair of AKG 463's(460 bodies with ck63 capsules) for only 700 for the pair/used. thats a GREAT deal IMO. but its apair of mics that would be VERY hard to stealth. the 460/480's are some of the bigger mics out there.

my 2 cents, id either buy cards AND hypers in the mini AT's and see which one you prefer for stealthinhg, and sell off the other pair. OR get a pair of 393's with the active/extension cables the 393's are the ONLY hyper IMO worth buying unless you are spending $1,000+ on a pair of mics

[ballerusk]

Thanks for the advice both of you

Yes, I'm going for a small rig (I'm not calling it that-other-word anymore hehe) and my intention was to get the 943 with both cards and hypers, which will add $120 to the mics. I had the DPA 4061s before, which although were (and are) excellent didn't get to shine in the crappy venue I taped in and I don't know about any good ones around where I live either.

[Javier Cinakowski]

I would recomend the 943 bodies with the 853 capsules (using the AT-ADAPT)

this is the best of both worlds.  you get the small size of the 943, with the fantastic sound of the 853.