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Gear / Technical Help => Playback Forum => Topic started by: BCostigan on April 03, 2005, 10:35:46 AM
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I finally ordered a Toshiba 4960 and am ready to try out some high resolution audio. Anyone have any suggestions that will really show off the ability of dvd-a and/or sacd? I don't have a dvd burner yet.....that's next on my list.
Thanks guys.....I'm really looking forward to this! Should be great week for home playback for me as I have a few items arriving!
4960 on the way
Pair of new speaker cables from legeddy should be here this week
Brass floor spikes for my speakers should be here as well
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sacd:
rolling stones - beggars' banquet
muddy waters - folk singer
+t for new toys.
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Yeah, here';s the best suggestion, MOD it. Trey Woodruff has mine, PM him about how it sounds. I think you are fairly decent with electonics right Brian? If you want to try the mods, PMN me, and I will point you in the right direction. I think I posted them here at some point too.
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Yeah, here';s the best suggestion, MOD it. Trey Woodruff has mine, PM him about how it sounds. I think you are fairly decent with electonics right Brian? If you want to try the mods, PMN me, and I will point you in the right direction. I think I posted them here at some point too.
I'm a decent electrician.....electronics is a whole other animal requireing one to have elf like fingers. Honestly, I don't think I'd be too comfortable moding the unit myself as I believe many of the replace ment parts are pretty small.
Guess it wouldn't hurt to find out what's involved. PM on the way D.
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I got "Don't Tell The Band" on DVDA yesterday. Very nice and detailed.
Diana Krall "The Look of Love" DVDA is a stunning recording.
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The Diana Krall DVDA is amazing. I think Jonny suggested that six months ago or so. Good stuff.
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I'm listening to Trischka, Sholle, & Campbell 4-2-2005 24/96 DVD-A
LSD2 (X-Y) >> T-Mod FR-2 >>Audition1.5 (applause limitting) >>CD Wave splits >> dvda-author >>mkisofs(sort) >>Nero (iso burn)
I like the Trey DVD-A it has 2 channel.
Some classical stuff, I can list it if you're interested.
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I'd like to hear some recommendations for hi-res classical recordings.
just picked up a Samsung 841 for cheap.
don't have a multi-channel setup yet but I am enjoying the stereo.
some of my recs:
Flaming Lips - Yoshimi Battles The Pink Robots DVD-A
Miles Davis - In A Silent Way SACD
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Off the top of my head I'd recommend the following:
Ryan Adams - Heartbreaker (MFSL SACD)
Charles Mingus - Mingus Ah Um (SACD)
John Coltrane - A Love Supreme (SACD)
Neil Young - Harvest (DVD-A)
Led Zepplin - How the West Was Won (DVD-A)
Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon (SACD)
From my listening experience all of the Columbia jazz releases are outstanding and worth a listen if you're into the genre.
Congrats on the new toys. :)
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Yeah, here';s the best suggestion, MOD it. Trey Woodruff has mine, PM him about how it sounds. I think you are fairly decent with electonics right Brian? If you want to try the mods, PMN me, and I will point you in the right direction. I think I posted them here at some point too.
just don't let the smoke out, brian!
wait for it... wait for it.....
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM
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back on topic: congrats for gettin new shit!
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Thanks for the suggestions guys. I'm gonna stop in at Circuit City and see what they have in store and grab a couple. +T to you all
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if you are a sheryl crow fan, I love the SACD of the Globe Sessions. Though I dont own it yet, I have heard the Allison Kraus live SACD and it sounds incredible
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Though I dont own it yet, I have heard the Allison Kraus live SACD and it sounds incredible
Thanks for that one Nick. She's probably my favorite female singer so I'm gonna have to grab that.
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ok, I just ordered a 3960... but I gotsta question... what, "scientifically" is the difference between redbook and, say, sacd? higer sample rate or something?
thanks for those suggestions above- I'm goona have to spin some of those!
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DVDA's i have...
Beck, Sea change - a littly flaky but phenomenal recording, it was meant for multichannel
Beck, Guero - very good havent really satdown with it yet but is still think sea change is better.
Blueman group, the complex - eh ok i didnt know there were guest singers on most tracks dave mathews for one :-X the menus on this DVDA are by far the worst menus that have ever been made.
Frank Zappa, Halloween - tits!
SACD
Babatunji Olatundi, Drums of passion I love the recording and how it makes a 1959 recording sound like it was recorded yesterday, but I hate the format of sacd, and how you are limited to using the 5.1 analog outs of your player.
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ok, I just ordered a 3960... but I gotsta question... what, "scientifically" is the difference between redbook and, say, sacd? higer sample rate or something?
In brief, max specs that I know of are:
redbook CD - 16-bit, 44.1 kHz sample rate
DVD-A - 24-bit, 192 kHz sample rate
SACD - 1-bit, 2.82 MHz sample rate
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thanks. +t
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hey, do these formats usually need multichannel playback to really get the full benefits, or is it appropriate for 2 channel playback? I'm thinking I might want to change my order from 3960 to 4960 - it looks like the 3960 doens't play SACD and DVD-A... but I'm only using it on a 2 channel playback system...
thanks again...
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SACD audio is DSD
A redbook cd, dvd-a, etc are all PCM data
here are some links
http://www.disctronics.co.uk/technology/dvdaudio/dvdaud_comp.htm
http://www.dsdproaudio.com/html/dsd_sacd_explained.html
http://www.delosmus.com/sacd_explained.html
the 3960 does not play SACD or DVDA... the 4960 does.. change that order!
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thanks dood... I just cancelled it, so now I gotta find a good price on the 4960! thanks for all the help
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thanks dood... I just cancelled it, so now I gotta find a good price on the 4960! thanks for all the help
B&H has it for 95$
http://www.google.com/froogle?q=toshiba+4960&btnG=Search+Froogle
there are also a couple of stores a little cheaper than that.
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yeah, that's where I just cancelled the 3960 from. I was leaning toward going there for it.
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I'm pretty sure you can grab it from ABC Warehouse or Hawthorne Electronics. It was about $120.
sc
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my need for instant gratification might just make that a necessity... thanks for the tip +t
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Does B&H offer free shipping on that player?? If so print it out and I'd bet they would work with you and get it down around $100 or so.
SC
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that's what I'm figuring. B&H will be right around $103 shipped.
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I ordered mine from 6th ave electronics. It was $89 + $0.06 shipping.
http://www.6ave.com
Just type "4960" in the search and it pops up.
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+T
yeah, found that. Printed it off to see if ABC Wharehouse will match it. They told me on the phone "List is $129" and that's all they'd say. We'll see.
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+T
yeah, found that. Printed it off to see if ABC Wharehouse will match it. They told me on the phone "List is $129" and that's all they'd say. We'll see.
If that's all they'd say on the phone I'd promptly take my purchase elsewhere. I understand they can't post some prices due to manufacturers pricing but if ya call and ask and they still feed ya that line.........
B+H has about the best best setup I've seen when it comes to this issue. They don't display the lowest price until you type a few letters into a required field and.......bingo......they give ya the price online when most places make you call.
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I would, but I'm into instant gratification. I figure its worth a shot... I bet they don't want me to walk.
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Do you need a TV to use the DVD-A screens for the 4960? My listening room purposely doesn't have a TV.......
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I don't have a TV in my listening room. All the DVDAs I have play when you put them in or when you push "play" on the remote. I have never even seen the menus.
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I don't have a TV in my listening room. All the DVDAs I have play when you put them in or when you push "play" on the remote. I have never even seen the menus.
Sweet! Thanks!
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well, I ordered one from 6Ave as well. Killer deal!
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well, I ordered one from 6Ave as well. Killer deal!
Nice....it was the best deal I found and I looked pretty extensively. Mine should be here Wed.....can't wait!
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very nice... enjoy!
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I don't have a TV in my listening room. All the DVDAs I have play when you put them in or when you push "play" on the remote. I have never even seen the menus.
What about DVD-As with both 5.1 and 2.0, such as the Trey Anasatsio ?
By default, I think that they the 5.1 unless menued to 2.0
Chesky has a Bucky Pizzarelli Swing DVD-A worth the price of admission.
Anyhow, back to classical recordings.....
It really depends on what you enjoy.
For me, Mozart, Copeland, Handel, and Bach - basically a "standards" guy.
On a moonless night, I might listen to a little Reich, Ives, Satie or Orff.
If you want some DVD-A titles worth a listen:
on Deutsch Grammophon von Karajan - Mozart - Requiem (heavy)
on EMI Previn - Holst -The Planets (funner)
on Telarc Fodor & Peskanov - Tchaikosky - 1812 Overture with ancient cannons (funner yet)
I'm much more likely to listen to jazz, bluegrass, and even a bit of rock.
The wierd thing about rock is that when you've listened to it for years it gets very predictible.
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What about DVD-As with both 5.1 and 2.0, such as the Trey Anasatsio ?
By default, I think that they the 5.1 unless menued to 2.0
I don't have a 5.1 system so I use the 2 channel mixdown ports on the back of my deck. I thought the 4960 had mix down ports on the back panel.
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It will defaintely mix it down.
Again, get the unit modded. I am going to get a couple of these and mod them around the 17th. I am planning on doing some more extensive modding this time. Slightly more work to the digital section, opamp replacement, etc, as well as doing the Swenson analog bypass mod with some silver wire for a friend who will be using the analog section which I do not. I will post results when I am done towards the end of the month.
Regards
D
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do someone have an extra user manual? or will someone scan/copy one for me? So far I have found the remote to be ineffective at best.
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do someone have an extra user manual? or will someone scan/copy one for me? So far I have found the remote to be ineffective at best.
go here: http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/dvd/product.asp?model=sd-4960
then click the "resources" button and you'll find a link to a pdf of the manual.
enjoy
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do someone have an extra user manual? or will someone scan/copy one for me? So far I have found the remote to be ineffective at best.
go here: http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/dvd/product.asp?model=sd-4960
then click the "resources" button and you'll find a link to a pdf of the manual.
enjoy
thanks
+T
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I don't have a TV in my listening room. All the DVDAs I have play when you put them in or when you push "play" on the remote. I have never even seen the menus.
how can I get a dvd-a/sacd to repeat using the remote only??
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do someone have an extra user manual? or will someone scan/copy one for me? So far I have found the remote to be ineffective at best.
Trey....when my 4960 gets here I'll find a way to get ya a copy of the manual.
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i have the manual, it talks about repeat mode, but it mentions it in terms of the menus on the screen, but I am only using it to playback sacd and dvda
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Does anyone need a schematic? I think I have one if you do.
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Daryan, about the mods- do you feel that they are as necessary if one purchases a decent DAC, or do the mods have different functions altogether? Any concerns about dropping the $ for on a machine that lotsa people experience flakiness with?
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What about the DVD-A and SACD of this unit? How are the analog outs? Are they part of a mod? My concerns are with the power supply and the digi out. If I were to get a DAC I'd get an upsampling DAC that will re-clock the crap coming out of this player. Anyone have the jitter specs?
sc.
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Here's what the mods do in no particular order, and this is all repeated from what I have read. I am an insurance guy, not an EE. Basically all of the mods are changing the capacitance in the signal path. By increaseing the capacitance, you are allowing for greater flow of electrical signal, which is essentially what the transport does anyway, not unlike any piece of playback gear. Most if not all of the capcitors are replaced in the power supply part of the board. If looking at it display side towards you, this would be on the far right hand side with a white outline around it. The power supply becomes much quiter, as no noise is being generated which degrades the signal path. The second part of the mod is changing numerous caps in the analog and digital circuit to allow for increased current flow. Again, reducing noise and making for a much quiter signal.
Now, the mod that will most likely effect exactly what you are talking about, feeding a DAC, the question becomes are you going to feed it a digital or analog signal? If feeding a digital signal, the mods above drastically improve the units performance. If feeding an analog signal, which I honestly have never used, an analog bypass aka swenson mod is the best way to go. By attaching some hook up wire, preferrably something that isn't garbage, you will be able to bypass much of the extremely noisy analog signal path, and feed it directly to the outputs of the rca. This is done by putting a couple auricaps, sonicaps, whatever to incrase the signal to a line level signal strong enough to compensate for the gain stages you are bypassing. This is a marked improvement for the nalaog signal from what I have read.
The other mods I would like to perform here in the near furture are a derivitive of the ones BOBM came up with.
I am planning on doing at least one unit with all blackgate caps, which are a marked improvement over their panasonic counterparts. They are also four times as much money. I am determined to figure out what the differences in caps is, and apparently you can hear the difference, we shall see. I would also like to change out the opamps in the digital path to something with a much higher slew rate, possibly the same ones doug uses in the t-mod if I can figure out the part number, which I have narrowed down to two. There is actually a newer opamps which I might try. I have never switched out opamps, but will give this a go to see how feasible it is in changing digital signal path. Finally, if you really want to get creative, adding bybee's to the outputs of the 4960, specifically the digital and picture outputs would be extremely beneficial. However, adding 150 bucks in parts for the bybees alone may not be the brightest of ideas. Oh, one more...if I had a dremmel tool, which I do not, I would probably attempt to add a IEC connection on the back and get rid of the garbage power chord in favor of a ven haus or bolder pc that would improve the unit as well.
In summary, is the unit in it's stock form any good? Sure, or we wouldn't be using it for transports in the first place. Can 150 dollars help it to rival $1000 transports, yes, indeed it can. You could even take all of this a step further, adding a superclock, rewire, etc, I am just not willing to take the time involved to attempt all of that! Yes it will help, grace dac or not!
I hope this helps,
Daryan
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Finally hit 1000 ;D
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Now, the mod that will most likely effect exactly what you are talking about, feeding a DAC, the question becomes are you going to feed it a digital or analog signal? If feeding a digital signal, the mods above drastically improve the units performance.
If the unit you're feeding is strictly a DAC, you can't feed it an analog signal.
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I thought that there were some chassis and transport mods that were effective on that unit.
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Forgot that part. Dampening is going to be key to reducing vibration and subsequent noise. You can spend 50 bucks and go dynamat, or run to the local menards, homedepot, big box store and pick up cheap vinyl flooring tile with the sticky adhesive on back. Add to the top of the tray, and al over the chassis. Oops!
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Top of the tray? I'm not sure what you mean... gonna have to go look around...
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The actual cd tray, the plastic POS that they use. I asked a couple of the powers that be whether or not replacing it is an option, and it doesn't sound like it. Very proprietary apparently. It's pretty obvious to see. Take out the four screws, snap off the faceplate, and it will look you right in the face. ;D
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What type of vibration are we talking about here? Mechanical or that due to low freq sonic waves (subwoofers)? The first can obviously be reduced by some for of damping agent, however to reduce the low freq stuff, mass must be added. Many believe high build quality only comes in heavy players and for the most part this is true (as long as bricks aren't added to the chassis). Ever notice the weight on some of the more well known and expensive players (UDP-1, Esoteric, Cary 306 or 308?? Having said that, what is the weight of the 4960? 3lbs maybe? One may want to experiment by adding a few pieces of marble or granite to the top of the player and place the player on spikes as well. This may help, may not. I did try this once w/o any audible difference. I did just order a 38lb DVD player so we will see how that sounds.
sc
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Dampen the transport, add cones to the feet, and if you really want to go cheap, a bag of sand or lead shot on top will do the trick. Or, you could always get a 300 dollar isolation stand :-) One other cheap tweak is to go to wallyworld and grab a bike tube for smaller bics, fill at the gas station, and place folded under the unit.
1005, woohoo, 2000 by August ;)
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Insert disc, hit play. Is something not working?
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Nice moke! I've really been enjoying mine....actually Heather and I were listening to a recording of yours the other night that sounded AMAZING. THC 1/24/2004 (TL's omni/jecklin -> V3 -> M1) She was pretty impressed with both the recording and the playback.....so I won a major battle in justifing my purchases! Thanksfor helping! ;D
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It sounds good, wait till we get a review of one of my modded units I am working on. I got the unit today, and the parts are coming Monday...now if I can just figure out how to change the clock I am going to be thrilled!
D
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I like mine as well.
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I've got a 4900 and it doesn't send 24/96 over digi-outs. Does the 4960?
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I've got a 4900 and it doesn't send 24/96 over digi-outs. Does the 4960?
the samsung HD841 does...which I think is a rebranded 4960
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I've got a 4900 and it doesn't send 24/96 over digi-outs. Does the 4960?
Yes of course!
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I've got a 4900 and it doesn't send 24/96 over digi-outs. Does the 4960?
I'm a dumbshit. All I had to do was switch menu settings and I'm good to go. 24/96 baby!!!