Topic: Do I need a Battery Box or Preamp?

[itook2much]

I still have many things to learn but, I do not like it when people say you do not need a preamp that a battery box is all you need. To that I say BULLSHIT

Well, it depends on what you mean by NEED. Especially if you're on a tight budget, a battery box will suffice especially if you're taping loud rock shows. Is a preamp desirable, absolutely. But then, so are DPA 4061's - and while I'd like to think I NEED those, that's just not the case.

I NEED DPA 4061's 

My wife doesn't agree

[poorlyconditioned]

OK, as promised, here are some samples with MD, both mic and line in:

HiMD (with 256kbps atrac!), mic in (low sens):
  www.cs.uwaterloo.ca/~mannr/AT853/at853c_3wire_himd_micin.mp3
This is a small auditorium show, moderate volume.  I am towards the back of the room, so there is quite a bit of "boominess" of the room.

MD (regular MD, 292kbps atrac), line in:
  www.cs.uwaterloo.ca/~mannr/AT853/at853c_3wire_md_linein.mp3
This is an outdoor festival "beer tent" venue with a pretty loud band and PA.

Both recordings could (probably) be improved with a preamp, or better yet an external ADC+pre, like the UA5.  But my point is that I had plenty of (analog) gain (on mic or line) and did not have noise problems.  In my experience the 3-wire battery box was really critical, especially for the second show.

  Richard

[CHURCH-AUDIO]

Hi Richard in order for the recordings to actually be of any use, you would have to have a pair of matched mics in the same venue at the same relative position. Giving two different shows at different venues is not really a fair comparison besides I am correct so the point is MOOT.
But I will offer this one point you do not NEED a preamp a battery box will get you by in most cases. But at the price some of my preamps sell for your average user might be better off buying a preamp instead of a battery box. I am still correct though lol.

Chris Church

OK, as promised, here are some samples with MD, both mic and line in:

HiMD (with 256kbps atrac!), mic in (low sens):
  www.cs.uwaterloo.ca/~mannr/AT853/at853c_3wire_himd_micin.mp3
This is a small auditorium show, moderate volume.  I am towards the back of the room, so there is quite a bit of "boominess" of the room.

MD (regular MD, 292kbps atrac), line in:
  www.cs.uwaterloo.ca/~mannr/AT853/at853c_3wire_md_linein.mp3
This is an outdoor festival "beer tent" venue with a pretty loud band and PA.

Both recordings could (probably) be improved with a preamp, or better yet an external ADC+pre, like the UA5.  But my point is that I had plenty of (analog) gain (on mic or line) and did not have noise problems.  In my experience the 3-wire battery box was really critical, especially for the second show.

  Richard

[poorlyconditioned]

Hi Richard in order for the recordings to actually be of any use, you would have to have a pair of matched mics in the same venue at the same relative position. Giving two different shows at different venues is not really a fair comparison besides I am correct so the point is MOOT.
But I will offer this one point you do not NEED a preamp a battery box will get you by in most cases. But at the price some of my preamps sell for your average user might be better off buying a preamp instead of a battery box. I am still correct though lol.

Chris Church

OK, as promised, here are some samples with MD, both mic and line in:

HiMD (with 256kbps atrac!), mic in (low sens):
  www.cs.uwaterloo.ca/~mannr/AT853/at853c_3wire_himd_micin.mp3
This is a small auditorium show, moderate volume.  I am towards the back of the room, so there is quite a bit of "boominess" of the room.

MD (regular MD, 292kbps atrac), line in:
  www.cs.uwaterloo.ca/~mannr/AT853/at853c_3wire_md_linein.mp3
This is an outdoor festival "beer tent" venue with a pretty loud band and PA.

Both recordings could (probably) be improved with a preamp, or better yet an external ADC+pre, like the UA5.  But my point is that I had plenty of (analog) gain (on mic or line) and did not have noise problems.  In my experience the 3-wire battery box was really critical, especially for the second show.

  Richard

Yeah, I agree, it is hard to compare.

I was just trying to say that because MD has a serviceable preamp and nice gain control on line in and mic in, you can get by quite well without a preamp.  A preamp is essential where you don't have any (analog) gain on line in, or where the preamp is really questionable (iRiver).

The second reason for putting up these samples is to show what is possible using just the MD.  IMO these are a lot nicer sounding than what a lot of people are getting with a NJB3 line in and a standard (2-wire) battery box, which is what a lot of people are using.

So, you should sell both battery boxes and preamps, but make them all 3-wire

  Richard

[rdflash]

While we are on the subject.

Sound Professional Battery Boxes are 2 wire, right?

Chris, are yours 2 or 3 wire?

Richard and Chris do either of you offer bass rolloff?

[poorlyconditioned]

While we are on the subject.

Sound Professional Battery Boxes are 2 wire, right?

Chris, are yours 2 or 3 wire?

Richard and Chris do either of you offer bass rolloff?

Soundpros are all 2-wire.

Chris offers both 2 and 3 wire.  Ask him for 3-wire.

I'm not planning on make any more right now, but ask Chris and he'll set you up!

I don't make anything except the plain box.  Ask Chris if he'll do bass rolloff or level controls.  Or, better yet, get is pre+ batt. box.

  Richard

[rdflash]

While we are on the subject.

Sound Professional Battery Boxes are 2 wire, right?

Chris, are yours 2 or 3 wire?

Richard and Chris do either of you offer bass rolloff?

Soundpros are all 2-wire.

Chris offers both 2 and 3 wire.  Ask him for 3-wire.

I'm not planning on make any more right now, but ask Chris and he'll set you up!

I don't make anything except the plain box.  Ask Chris if he'll do bass rolloff or level controls.  Or, better yet, get is pre+ batt. box.

  Richard

I have a Sound Pro w/ bass rolloff, I was just wondering.

thanks for help + T

[poorlyconditioned]

While we are on the subject.

Sound Professional Battery Boxes are 2 wire, right?

Chris, are yours 2 or 3 wire?

Richard and Chris do either of you offer bass rolloff?

Soundpros are all 2-wire.

Chris offers both 2 and 3 wire.  Ask him for 3-wire.

I'm not planning on make any more right now, but ask Chris and he'll set you up!

I don't make anything except the plain box.  Ask Chris if he'll do bass rolloff or level controls.  Or, better yet, get is pre+ batt. box.

  Richard

I have a Sound Pro w/ bass rolloff, I was just wondering.

thanks for help + T

Also, if you decide to go three-wire, send your mics back to Soundprofessionals and get the "phantom power mod".  I think it is like $79 for him to put miniXLR connectors on each mic, make a dual-miniXLR to mini-3.5mm plug, and supply two Samson phantom adapters.  That is a killer price considering the parts and labor.  Then get Chris to make you a 3-wire battery box, or batt box+pre, and you'll be all set.

  Richard

[Javier Cinakowski]

Sure a 3 wire is nice if you have linkowiz moded mics.  A 3 wire mod is not common with many electret mini mics though.   See, the problem is that the AT85xxx mics are all hot as hell and are prone to distortion.  Get a set of mics that do not push out such a hot signal and you wont have these issues.  My 2 wire preamp (church's stc9000) can be used with a bunch of different mics.  The AT's turned me off when I was lookin becasue you either had to get the phantom mod or deal with a 3 wire or distortion. 

On another note I have to agree that the new Hi-MD's have a preamp that is just fine for recording many things. I have noticed less brickwalling with Church's preamp in loud situations, but look at the specs for the built in sony Hi-MD's, they are fucking good.  The noise is not a problem unless you are recording birds in yuor back yard.  The noise level of ambiance at a concert is well above the noise of the Hi-MD preamp.   The NJB3 does have a really shitty ADC and preamp IMO.  The Hi-MDs are not bad though

[Javier Cinakowski]

BTW, everything I just said may be a bunch of bullshit, but some of you have an ego the size of a tank, so I thought I would join the party!!!!   

[CHURCH-AUDIO]

I have ( microdot 2 wire ) ( I do not yet have the microdots instock but I will in the next month or so)  3.5 mm 2 wire stereo, 3 pin mini XLR any of them can come with a bass roll off at 80hz that can be bypassed.
So any config you can think in a battery box I can build.

Chris Church

While we are on the subject.

Sound Professional Battery Boxes are 2 wire, right?

Chris, are yours 2 or 3 wire?

Richard and Chris do either of you offer bass rolloff?

[rdflash]

Also, if you decide to go three-wire, send your mics back to Soundprofessionals and get the "phantom power mod".  I think it is like $79 for him to put miniXLR connectors on each mic, make a dual-miniXLR to mini-3.5mm plug, and supply two Samson phantom adapters.  That is a killer price considering the parts and labor.  Then get Chris to make you a 3-wire battery box, or batt box+pre, and you'll be all set.

  Richard

I have Sound Professionals AT831 version phatom modded, 2 samson adapters.  Theres a dual minixlr>mini plug to go into battery box (i dont know what the specifics are).

Bought package from "Chanher"

I have went at831>that little plug>batt box rolloff at 95 KHZ>jb3

havent tried the samson adapters yet. what do i need to run that set up.  just regular XLR cables to pre-amp.

Got free samson mixpad 4 off of "larrysellers"  so can i use that??

[poorlyconditioned]

Also, if you decide to go three-wire, send your mics back to Soundprofessionals and get the "phantom power mod".  I think it is like $79 for him to put miniXLR connectors on each mic, make a dual-miniXLR to mini-3.5mm plug, and supply two Samson phantom adapters.  That is a killer price considering the parts and labor.  Then get Chris to make you a 3-wire battery box, or batt box+pre, and you'll be all set.

  Richard

I have Sound Professionals AT831 version phatom modded, 2 samson adapters.  Theres a dual minixlr>mini plug to go into battery box (i dont know what the specifics are).

Bought package from "Chanher"

I have went at831>that little plug>batt box rolloff at 95 KHZ>jb3

havent tried the samson adapters yet. what do i need to run that set up.  just regular XLR cables to pre-amp.

Got free samson mixpad 4 off of "larrysellers"  so can i use that??

Excellent setup.  You can use the Samson adapters with any XLR input, but it must have phantom power.  I'm not sure if the mixpad has enough juice (it is less than full spec 48V).  Try it and see how it sounds.  It would certainly work on a UA5 or something like that though.  The nice thing about phantom adapters is you just plug them in and they sound great.  No worries about battery boxes, cheap 3.5mm connectors, etc.

If you get a 3-wire battery box that will work too.  Ask Chris Church to build you a preamp+3-wire battery box.  That would sound great into your NJB3.

  Richard

[CHURCH-AUDIO]

Hey who the hell asked you to join the party! No ones ego is bigger then a soundman’s ego! I must have a shit hi md because my Hi md is noisy as all hell I have an mz-nh900. I love this thing but the mic pre sucks its better then it used to be but its no where near as good as it can be. My whole point to all of this is simple. For the money I am charging it would be better to buy my preamp then to be stuck with a simple battery box that will not work in every situation. But I do understand not everyone can afford $150 for a preamp when a battery box is just $80 But I would say hey don't waste the $80 save up and buy my or someone else’s preamp. As budding sound engineers or recordists, what ever you guys want to call it. You never know what levels are going to be like so having a quiet preamp helps in these situations in a loud rock show the signal to noise becomes MOOT but with a dynamic band it can be a problem.


Chris Church

BTW, everything I just said may be a bunch of bullshit, but some of you have an ego the size of a tank, so I thought I would join the party!!!!   

[Javier Cinakowski]

but with a dynamic band it can be a problem

you are absolutly right.  That is the reason I bought your preamp.  For dynamic shows like Jazz bands and acoustic acts.  Also the preamp is a great tool if you want to use you electret mics for micing an instrument.  You can plug the thing into an amp or a computer soundcard and have a ton of fun.  !!!