Topic: Church transformer based pre

[BJ]

Read more closely and you'll see:
Chris soliciting feature suggestions
Tapers offering more opinions than can fit into any one box
Tapers asking, repeatedly for updates
Chris responding to those requests...

Lighten up.

Hell, nothing is even for sale- yet.

I saw that and it's cool.  But when I asked about the distinction from the Aerco box, I got a long fluff reply that had little to do with the question.  All he had to say was wait until it comes out. 

well..he did preface his post with the fact that he didn't want to release a full list b/c of privacy.  He is still in design/prototyping.  If the list got out, someone could beat him to features, and therefore his would not be unique any longer.

What he did say.

* We already know its transformer based
* his is a new product from the ground up (including power)
* features not available on other units
    * these features are from tapers suggestions, from actual field usage since both designers are tapers, and its built specifically for field use.

what you considered fluffing or marketing flier...i considered Chris being anxious about wanting to tell us, but smart enough not too b/c of the reason he listed.  He has built something new, and is proud (as he said)....i can tell he wants to spill his guts...its like a kid with a new toy (except he built that toy)...

my .02$

[landshark]

Hmm, so Chris specifically did NOT get into features, specs, or anything else, and gave his reasons why the secrecy.  He deliberately did NOT say "mine is better than X's".  He deliberately did NOT claim any level of performance other than to say that he thought people would like the feature set they have been trying to incorporate, and that he was proud of his work?

Why the heck are you suggesting he's "fluffing" his product???  Just because he didn't answer your post about the Aerco in the way you wanted?  Lighten up, Francis.  You'd be hard pressed to find another manufacturer that's been as supportive of TS than Chris.

Thanks for the work Chris, can't wait to see the pre when it's done!

Mike

[prof_peabody]

Hmm, so Chris specifically did NOT get into features, specs, or anything else, and gave his reasons why the secrecy.  He deliberately did NOT say "mine is better than X's".  He deliberately did NOT claim any level of performance other than to say that he thought people would like the feature set they have been trying to incorporate, and that he was proud of his work?

Why the heck are you suggesting he's "fluffing" his product???  Just because he didn't answer your post about the Aerco in the way you wanted?  Lighten up, Francis.  You'd be hard pressed to find another manufacturer that's been as supportive of TS than Chris.

Thanks for the work Chris, can't wait to see the pre when it's done!

Mike

This isn't about the Aerco box, or about Oade's gear.

Let me quote the fluffing:

because all of the other preamps are not really designed from the ground up for taping live shows sure some of them are small and some of them use battery power but none of them have some of the ideas we are going to incorporate into this one product.

Seems like fluffing/trashing other pre-amps to me.  I can think of a couple pre-amps designed for live music taping that are quite popular/well respected.

And I know you will be impressed, I am... and I am not so easy to impress.

fluff...

We are not just builders of gear. Brad has his extensive electronics engineering background and concert taping and extensive knowledge of how the "big boys do things" from a manufacturing and design standpoint.  I have my background in sound engineering and electronics, and some of the things I have learned in running Church Audio like the mass production of over 2,900 preamps and over 2,000 microphones  to date with a return rate of less then 5%. Both of our talents are being fully brought to bear on this product.

fluff...

[Brian Skalinder]

People fluff gear around here all the time:  sellers, long-time tapers, newbies, people who communicate very well, TSers who can't communicate worth a lick...you name it.  Why does this particular "fluffing" episode irk you so?

A good policy towards fluffing, IMO:  ignore it (since it's futile to fight it) and make up one's own mind if/when one hears the gear.

[Nick's Picks]

I'll fluff it like charmen baby!
can't wait for the silly thing to materialize.

[Kindguy]

Read more closely and you'll see:
Chris soliciting feature suggestions
Tapers offering more opinions than can fit into any one box
Tapers asking, repeatedly for updates
Chris responding to those requests...

Lighten up.

Hell, nothing is even for sale- yet.

I saw that and it's cool.  But when I asked about the distinction from the Aerco box, I got a long fluff reply that had little to do with the question.  All he had to say was wait until it comes out. 

well..he did preface his post with the fact that he didn't want to release a full list b/c of privacy.  He is still in design/prototyping.  If the list got out, someone could beat him to features, and therefore his would not be unique any longer.

What he did say.

* We already know its transformer based
* his is a new product from the ground up (including power)
* features not available on other units
    * these features are from tapers suggestions, from actual field usage since both designers are tapers, and its built specifically for field use.

what you considered fluffing or marketing flier...i considered Chris being anxious about wanting to tell us, but smart enough not too b/c of the reason he listed.  He has built something new, and is proud (as he said)....i can tell he wants to spill his guts...its like a kid with a new toy (except he built that toy)...

my .02$

I agree. Lets not forget Soundprofessionals started offering his 4.7 mod once he posted how to do it. He posted how to do it for the DIYer's out there. Not for SP to make $$$ of it. I totally see why he isn't posting details on the new pre.

[prof_peabody]

People fluff gear around here all the time:  sellers, long-time tapers, newbies, people who communicate very well, TSers who can't communicate worth a lick...you name it.  Why does this particular "fluffing" episode irk you so?

A good policy towards fluffing, IMO:  ignore it (since it's futile to fight it) and make up one's own mind if/when one hears the gear.

I don't mind average TSers fluffing at all.  It's just a little different to me when it's an actual company/enterprise doing the fluffing.  I'll head your advice in the future. +T

[BJ]

Fluffing in his own thread is just fine..  Anything he could say about the preamp, even details, would be fluffing because it is still vapor ware.

It is a little funny that early on Chris scoffed at the AERCO's price as way too high but his product seems to be creeping toward a similar price (perhaps with less customization of each unit given how custom each AERCO is).

I think the product specification/input phase was interesting to watch - bouncing between a compact form factor like the AERCO/psp2 vs. larger designs.  It seemed there are those who want a killer small transformer pre with internal power and external as an option (but don't want to pay/wait for an AERCO).. And those who will accept a larger form factor like a v2 with external power and more features. I'm not sure where this design ended up but it sounds like it went for larger and features.

there was also some talk earlier about offering both, once the design was complete.  One small form for the stealth people (with less options/features) and a larger form factor for the full pre.  I am not sure how that ended up?  But yes..the whole process is interesting to watch unfold, and i can't wait to see what comes out of it.

as far as the price...I honestly thought it would be VERY hard to keep it at the pp he was shooting for.  But I admire both of them for trying to keep it at that price point, and still trying to keep it as low as possible.

[Church-Audio]

Fluffing in his own thread is just fine..  Anything he could say about the preamp, even details, would be fluffing because it is still vapor ware.

It is a little funny that early on Chris scoffed at the AERCO's price as way too high but his product seems to be creeping toward a similar price (perhaps with less customization of each unit given how custom each AERCO is).

I think the product specification/input phase was interesting to watch - bouncing between a compact form factor like the AERCO/psp2 vs. larger designs.  It seemed there are those who want a killer small transformer pre with internal power and external as an option (but don't want to pay/wait for an AERCO).. And those who will accept a larger form factor like a v2 with external power and more features. I'm not sure where this design ended up but it sounds like it went for larger and features.

When our preamp comes out, It will be something that will be worth every penny we ask for it and more.. Just like my products are now.. I made some mistakes early on, I should never have commented on. But it's water under the bridge we will have a scaled down version that "everyone can afford" and we will have a full blow version that most people can afford. Its hard to please everyone. But I dont want to build the same old preamp that has already been done. And we are not going to just throw something out before its 100% ready.. I dont want to use my paying customers as "beta" testers. So to that end things are taking longer but that's the nature of things when you have a guy like Brad working on things he is not happy with anything less then the best performance. That does not mean that it will cost $$$. We are constantly looking at cost vs performance and making sure the balance is as good as we can make it.



Chris

[Church-Audio]

Fluffing in his own thread is just fine..  Anything he could say about the preamp, even details, would be fluffing because it is still vapor ware.

It is a little funny that early on Chris scoffed at the AERCO's price as way too high but his product seems to be creeping toward a similar price (perhaps with less customization of each unit given how custom each AERCO is).

I think the product specification/input phase was interesting to watch - bouncing between a compact form factor like the AERCO/psp2 vs. larger designs.  It seemed there are those who want a killer small transformer pre with internal power and external as an option (but don't want to pay/wait for an AERCO).. And those who will accept a larger form factor like a v2 with external power and more features. I'm not sure where this design ended up but it sounds like it went for larger and features.

there was also some talk earlier about offering both, once the design was complete.  One small form for the stealth people (with less options/features) and a larger form factor for the full pre.  I am not sure how that ended up?  But yes..the whole process is interesting to watch unfold, and i can't wait to see what comes out of it.

as far as the price...I honestly thought it would be VERY hard to keep it at the pp he was shooting for.  But I admire both of them for trying to keep it at that price point, and still trying to keep it as low as possible.

Its always been our intention to make two different versions a "stealth" version for people that need small. And a gear bag version for the guys that do not stealth. The stealth version will have less bells and whistles but the same performance at a lower price point.

[Kindguy]

T+

[OOK]

Chris you rock!  I guess this means I will have to buy both versions.....T+

[Church-Audio]

Chris you rock!  I guess this means I will have to buy both versions.....T+

lol... well only if you want too.. I have been known for making good gear at a good price.. that's not ever going to change, Brad does not want this to be over priced ether do I. So the price points will be fair. I guess I just wanted to keep everyone up to date and in the process I might have upset a few people with a estimation of a price increase. Even with he big preamp we are building Brad has suggested that we offer it with out a transformer so we can reduce the cost over $150. And have it built in such a way that if the customer did want the transformer option they could send it to us and we could install it at a later date. This can reduce the cost of the preamp by $150.

We dont want to get into reducing the features for one person or another, this will not be a simple project box where we can simply omit a hole or two. It will need to be machined and in order to keep costs down we will be getting more then one machined at a time, that means things like the basic functionality must remain the same from one preamp to another.

We are talking about 70+db of gain so this product can be used from everything to recording a kick drum -20 db pad to recording a humming bird ( ultra low noise floor ) One of the other things we can let you know about is we are going to include a unbalanced input 3.5 mm with plug in power that can be used instead of the xlr connectors so that you can use a pair of AT mics or a pair of CA mics with your preamp and NOT have to use the stupid adaptors that stick out 2 inches from your preamps inputs. But so far this is just talk because we have to design a separate front end for that.


Chris

[Nick's Picks]

thats good thinking (the 3.5mm w/pip) as well as the balanced inputs.
I've always wished my preamps offered that.

[ehren]

Well, I think we're all pretty interested in this. I'm ready to hear it to formulate my own opinions