Topic: Church transformer based pre

[Brian Skalinder]

A preamp does not need balanced outputs..... So why have XLR outputs?

It's about reliability / robustness and convenience:

<1>  locking connector
<2>  no adapters / replacement interconnects necessary for those already running XLR (I don't know anyone who runs 1/4" out of their preamp to an outboard ADC or recorder)

[sygdwm]

what about rca outs?

[Church-Audio]

A preamp does not need balanced outputs..... So why have XLR outputs?

It's about reliability / robustness and convenience:

<1>  locking connector
<2>  no adapters / replacement interconnects necessary for those already running XLR (I don't know anyone who runs 1/4" out of their preamp to an outboard ADC or recorder)

I have jacks that you guys could never break and they are reliable as any XLR connector.. Trust me. But If you assholes want locking connectors fine.. I am charging an extra $5.00 for my preamp now  I can see the whole locking thing. I can put them on my preamp I will also use a locking Neutrik powercon plug for power instead of the cheap power plugs you guys use


I got some -T'S I guess some people did not realize I am kidding.....

[Kindguy]

I am not interested in starting one since I have been called out as some one that cares more about selling then helping users here.

Chris Church

For what it's worth I thank you for the time you put in to make quality gear for us. Don't ever feel like you shouldnt promote yourself or the work you do. I'd rather have gear made by someone who knows and tailors their gear toward our narrow end of the audio spectrum. Keep it up Chris!

I so agree. Thanks Chris T+

[Church-Audio]

what about rca outs?

Hey rca outputs didnt they go out with 8 track tapes?

[Kindguy]

I think your proposed list looks pretty good: 

1- Flat frequency response from 20hz to 50k
2- Super low distortion
3- Hi pass filter with switch
4- Clip lights
5- Battery operation ( external??)
6- Size?
7- Cost effective
8- built like a tank
10- Mic pad -20 db?
11- 12 Stepped gain control
12- For gain I was thinking about 40db or so being the target but 60 is not impossible I just don't know how practical 60db of gain is for live concert recording..

I think 40 dB of gain is plenty for typical taper usage.  I only very rarely need to use > 40 dB, typically for acoustic or unamplified sound sources.

My $0.02:  KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid).  Which to my mind means:

• level meters - don't bother, we already have them on our ADCs / recorders
• Y-cabling / mini-XLRs - forget it, just one more thing to lose / forget / break
• power - stick to an external power source, preferably a commonly available lockable connector with 6v - 12v VDC, allowing for standard, aftermarket battery usage...no need for a separate snap-on battery compartment or some such
• variable gain - nice to have, not critical
• stepped gain - probably more critical if running straight into a recorder
• phase switch - BFD, I can always switch it in post;  maybe more necessary for multi-channel stuff, though (but again, I'd just do it in post)
• HPF - nice to have, not critical (can always do it in post)
• size - as small as possible, without compromising sound quality
• output level adjustment - not necessary

As Todd R just suggested - pick your market and drive your design considerations accordingly.  But in any case, my main point wit hthis thread:  KISS.

Just halfway through the thread, but i agree whith Brian. Keep in mind my 2 favorite pre's are the Oade M-148 & the psp-2. Not very many bells & whistles. just a damn good sounding pre.

[rowjimmy]

That size sounds great. xlrs have many pros but size ain't one. meh, whatever works.

Oh, and I got the joke. +t

[Nick's Picks]

what about this?
maybe just a MOD is in order.
:-)

looks like the rest of the work has been done.
http://beachtek.com/dxa6vu.html

transistor based inputs
level meeter
phantom
stereo mini output

[Church-Audio]

what about this?
maybe just a MOD is in order.
:-)

looks like the rest of the work has been done.
http://beachtek.com/dxa6vu.html

transistor based inputs
level meeter
phantom
stereo mini output

Well in order for me to mod something I would have to see the insides of it. I doubt they are using transformers.. So putting transformers inside that box might be a problem. I was thinking of the Sampson unit.. I could maybe mod one of them if the box was big enough to hold the transformers. There are lots of people out there making small preamps now.. It makes me wonder if I should even bother. I will make one and see how it goes.

Chris Church

[rowjimmy]

A lot of Co.s are making small pre-amps, it's true. But they are either poor for our purposes or quite spendy. The trick is to make one of quality that is still affordable and yet not an overreach of your resources. (Obviously it has to be worth your time...)

I look forward to what you come up with. clear the extra cooks out the kitchen and start simmerin up stew.

[Nick's Picks]

if I can find one of these cheap, i'll pick it up and we'll have us a look-see

[Myco]

Let us know where you stand with this Chris. I've been in touch with Jerry from Aerco about buying an MP-2, but if you can come up with a good pre-amp with transformers I'd be happy to give you some business.

[Church-Audio]

Let us know where you stand with this Chris. I've been in touch with Jerry from Aerco about buying an MP-2, but if you can come up with a good pre-amp with transformers I'd be happy to give you some business.

I know I have to do this. Its the only way for my small company to get to the next step. So I have to build a professional balanced preamp with phantom and transformers ( only because I like transformers ) they add $100 to the cost of the preamp with out even talking about the case or the circuit. I want to be able to do this.. I will try to come up with something that is good enough to be considered for purchased by you guys. I want something that I would purchase.

When I design something that's what I ask my self if I needed a preamp would I buy this? Its hard to be objective because there are so many ways this thing could go. But I think the input I have received from you guys has helped me. And in return I will try to help you by building something that will not cost an arm and a leg. But give me some time keep the idea's flowing. This is a learning experience for me as well. I want to build one preamp and get it right the first time. With my other preamps things have changed here and there I have come up with better power supply designs I have had help from guys Like Richard here at T.S he says one thing to me and I am off trying it out and 9 times out of 10 it works for the better. I cant be changing this circuit all the time once its built I want it to work exactly the way I have it in my head. And for you guys not to have to send it back for a "new mod" Lets see what happens.

Thanks to everyone that has contributed to this thread and please continue.

 

Chris Church

[Myco]

Thanks Chris! I don't think there is anything that I personally could add that the others haven't already mentioned. I also understand the cost and design considerations that you've mentioned. I, as well as others I'm sure, appreciate how you take what we ask of you and try to see if it works from an engineering perspective. It's your hands on approach to what the little guys need like ourselves ask that makes me want to give you the business and help to support what your doing. Take whatever time you need, and thanks again. 

[Church-Audio]

Ok, I would also like to get a sense for what battery you would like to see used for this preamp?
I have heard a lot about these Geek batteries? lol sorry I don't know the full name of the company they look pretty nice they have a charge indicator built in. If anyone can help me with the battery issue that would be great. I would love to use 12 volts because it divides into 48volts rather nicely. I know a lot of you use 9 volt but I was thinking it would not be a big deal to have a separate battery for the preamp. Am I wrong?