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Author Topic: Most accurate headphone for monitoring?  (Read 8926 times)

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Offline weroflu

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Most accurate headphone for monitoring?
« on: January 30, 2013, 11:38:10 AM »
Any suggestions?


Offline noahbickart

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Re: Most accurate headphone for monitoring?
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2013, 11:48:59 AM »
Open, closed, or IEM?
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Offline weroflu

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Re: Most accurate headphone for monitoring?
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2013, 12:07:05 PM »
not iem...

open or closed doesn't matter, just looking for the most neutral to make mixing, mic choice  decisions.

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Re: Most accurate headphone for monitoring?
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2013, 01:31:14 PM »
I love my akg k701 headphones. But they leak and let sound in.
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
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Re: Most accurate headphone for monitoring?
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2013, 01:44:39 PM »
Audeze LSD2 or LSD3 (both are more orthodynamic than coiled driver). The former is actually a better bang:buck ratio. They come with response graphs, I can post mine when I get home if you want, the gist is they are flat up to 2k and then have a slight roll off before being close to flat up past 10k. I find they are only marginally brighter than the open air speakers and monitors I've reviewed mixes against. Most revealing headphones I've ever heard or owned. (never heard an electrostatic headphone though)

The Denon 7000s have a fantastic soundstage but have a hole in the lower midrange which can be dangerous to EQ around if you're not aware of it. The Sennheiser HD800 are somewhat bass shy, the HD600 are more bass shy and start to exhibit the traditional coiled "veil" effect that lots of headphones have in terms of transient response and detail. I'm not sure I'd consider anything else unless you just don't have cash.
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Offline George

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Re: Most accurate headphone for monitoring?
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2013, 01:57:34 PM »
I would never describe the Sennheiser line as bass shy, they are the complete opposite when properly amped...which leads me to state the OP would be better off with a headphone that does not require a headphone amplifier.

edit:  the Sennheiser 580's, 600's and 650's all have that slightly veiled sound to them.  When properly amplified, it's diminishes greatly.  I used to run the 580's with a MG Head (tube amp) and man oh man, did I hear gobs of bass coming at me.  It was a revelation of what they could do when properly amplified. 

Speaking of electrostatics, I did own the Sennheiser Baby Orpheus (HE60's) several years ago and those were some incredible headphones.  The midrange was unreal; very liquid.  The imaging was spot on.  I loved those cans.  Sold them for double what I paid!  I wish I kept them though.   

I would suggest the typical headphone used in a lot of studios:  the Sony V6 or 7506.  I would suggest looking around here for ideas:  www.headphone.com
« Last Edit: January 30, 2013, 02:06:28 PM by George »
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Re: Most accurate headphone for monitoring?
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2013, 02:02:01 PM »
I would never describe the Sennheiser line as bass shy, they are the complete opposite when properly amped...

I'm using studio monitors as a comparison in my above comments which will skew things. Comparing within headphone lines, I would agree that most Sennheisers are not bass shy, but I've found they are when you compare them to lots of speakers.
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Offline George

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Re: Most accurate headphone for monitoring?
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2013, 02:11:51 PM »
I would never describe the Sennheiser line as bass shy, they are the complete opposite when properly amped...

I'm using studio monitors as a comparison in my above comments which will skew things. Comparing within headphone lines, I would agree that most Sennheisers are not bass shy, but I've found they are when you compare them to lots of speakers.

Well yeah, at that point you're comparing apples to oranges.  It wouldn't be fair to compare headphones to speakers at all, especially in monitoring situations. 

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"Every time I see a group of teenagers gathered around an iphone laughing at some youtube video, I walk up to them, slap the iphone out of their hand, get right up to them nose to nose, and scream at the top of my lungs:

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Re: Most accurate headphone for monitoring?
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2013, 02:15:46 PM »
I would never describe the Sennheiser line as bass shy, they are the complete opposite when properly amped...

I'm using studio monitors as a comparison in my above comments which will skew things. Comparing within headphone lines, I would agree that most Sennheisers are not bass shy, but I've found they are when you compare them to lots of speakers.

Well yeah, at that point you're comparing apples to oranges.  It wouldn't be fair to compare headphones to speakers at all, especially in monitoring situations.

If you're constructing reference mixes and doing EQ, then I think it is rather applicable as a large part of that involves making adjustments that will be pleasant to the majority of playback systems that you think your recording will be listened to on. Ideally, you'd get multiple playback setups that all reveal something different, but that's not always possible, so the next best thing is a setup that will give you the best view possible regardless of the end system.
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Offline gkatz

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Re: Most accurate headphone for monitoring?
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2013, 04:17:00 PM »
can someone tell me the differences between Senn HD280's and Sony 7506's? I'm in the market for some new cans, the HD280's are starting to sound dull to me after 3-4 years of use.

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Re: Most accurate headphone for monitoring?
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2013, 05:10:53 PM »
Well yeah, at that point you're comparing apples to oranges.  It wouldn't be fair to compare headphones to speakers at all, especially in monitoring situations.

There is a unique exception to that rule, which I have experienced a demo of and handily nominate as the most accurate headphone system ever devised.  For most practical purposes it is as accurate as the speaker system to which it is calibrated, excepting the tactile low bass sensation region- the Smyth Realiser.  It is a system which includes a complex DSP box and Stax electrostatic ‘phones, although other ‘phones can be used with it.  It requires an relatively extensive calibration procedure in the monitoring room to be emulated using microphones placed in the user’s ear canals. It also corrects for non-linearities in the phones themselves and the interface between them and your ears. The emulation is specific to each room and to each individual, but multiple emulations and user profiles can be stored and retrieved.

If it was priced more affordably I would most certainly own it, book an hour in a several different quality mastering facilities and run personal calibrations there as well as though my own system at home and a few other references such a couple mediocre systems and a few car stereos.  I could then switch between all those virtual monitoring rooms while working anywhere that was quiet enough.

However, that system isn’t within the budget of most here including myself, so back on planet reality I use Sennheiser HD650s and agree with what others have said about the Senns in general.  I can get pretty close doing a mix on them, but am never comfortable until listening on my speaker system.. and ideally several others.  I’d like to give the Audeze cans a listen sometime, as well as the HD800.

Close coupled ear response varies from person to person*, so specific models which work best for others may not work best for you, however the recommendations here are all good candidates. The AKG k701s which work well for Noah, don’t play nicely at all with my personal ear canal resonance for example, but they are good ‘phones and others love them. You probably know this, but generally open backed phones are more accurate, though far less isolating than closed back phones, and most of what has been suggested here are open backed, except the Sonys.


*That large variability in transfer response between headphones and ears is one reason why the calibration process used by the Smyth system makes it the most accurate- it makes a separate measurement and modification for the transfer response between the headphones and your ears as well as the transfer response between the room being emulated and your ears.  That means it is not just emulating your ears listening from the sweet spot in a specific speaker/room combination, but also correcting the headphones themselves and your individual response to them, within the limits of the system's capabilities.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2013, 05:14:54 PM by Gutbucket »
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Offline George

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Re: Most accurate headphone for monitoring?
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2013, 06:12:40 PM »
not iem...

open or closed doesn't matter, just looking for the most neutral to make mixing, mic choice  decisions.

What's your budget?   A lot of people love this can in particular:  http://www.headphone.com/headphones/audio-technica-ath-m50.php

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"Every time I see a group of teenagers gathered around an iphone laughing at some youtube video, I walk up to them, slap the iphone out of their hand, get right up to them nose to nose, and scream at the top of my lungs:

TAKE A LOOK

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Re: Most accurate headphone for monitoring?
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2013, 06:43:54 PM »
Good call, i forgot about the m50, sorry about that. In the budget range its the best thing for realistic bass response Ive heard.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

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Re: Most accurate headphone for monitoring?
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2013, 06:46:02 PM »
can someone tell me the differences between Senn HD280's and Sony 7506's? I'm in the market for some new cans, the HD280's are starting to sound dull to me after 3-4 years of use.

I won a brand new pair of HD280 several years ago for a taper retail sight. Daves Mic Supply or something like that.  Their modo was "the World is Listening Mic it Right".  I haven't used them very hard but I find them almost bassless.  I hate them.  I don't find them balanced what so ever.  Trust me I didn't abuse them at all.  Now I hear marvelous things about the Sony 7506's as being the go to for mixing if needed.  I am curious about these myself as well as the ATM-50's from AT.

OOK
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Offline ravingandrooling

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Re: Most accurate headphone for monitoring?
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2013, 07:05:25 PM »
I picked up a set of the ATH M50's for $99.  At that price they are hard to beat.  One thing I have noticed is that if using them exclusively to master a recording it usually sounds very "bassy" when played on the full size stereo system. 
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Re: Most accurate headphone for monitoring?
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2013, 07:11:05 PM »
I picked up a set of the ATH M50's for $99.  At that price they are hard to beat.  One thing I have noticed is that if using them exclusively to master a recording it usually sounds very "bassy" when played on the full size stereo system.

Is that because you are adding bass because they sound bass shy?
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Offline weroflu

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Re: Most accurate headphone for monitoring?
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2013, 03:00:26 AM »
audeze lcd2- would love to have these but pricey

how about the hifiman he500?  still expensive for me

i wasn't sure if the ortho's were good as monitors compared to standards like the sennheiser.

sennheiser hd600 vs hd650 . which one is more accurate?




« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 03:03:21 AM by weroflu »

Offline yates7592

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Re: Most accurate headphone for monitoring?
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2013, 03:57:51 AM »
I can't comment on all the suggestions so far because I've never used them, but I can highly recommend Sony MDR-7520. These are excellent headphones for monitoring, they pick out the flaws in most recordings, and bass response is really good, not overblown or light, just accurate.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 01:26:34 PM by yates7592 »

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Re: Most accurate headphone for monitoring?
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2013, 06:30:33 AM »
I picked up a set of the ATH M50's for $99.  At that price they are hard to beat.  One thing I have noticed is that if using them exclusively to master a recording it usually sounds very "bassy" when played on the full size stereo system.

My experience has been the same with 7506s. Once you learn to hear the expected bass differences compared to monitors, it's easy to compensate using the cans.
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Offline ravingandrooling

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Re: Most accurate headphone for monitoring?
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2013, 07:15:35 AM »
I picked up a set of the ATH M50's for $99.  At that price they are hard to beat.  One thing I have noticed is that if using them exclusively to master a recording it usually sounds very "bassy" when played on the full size stereo system.

Is that because you are adding bass because they sound bass shy?

The opposite.  I always seem to need to reduce bass in post. 
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Re: Most accurate headphone for monitoring?
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2013, 09:15:53 AM »
I picked up a set of the ATH M50's for $99.  At that price they are hard to beat.  One thing I have noticed is that if using them exclusively to master a recording it usually sounds very "bassy" when played on the full size stereo system.

Is that because you are adding bass because they sound bass shy?

I'm amazed you thought the 280s were "bass shy".  What were you amping them with? 

Compared to the ATH-M50 I think there is no contest... I find the 280s are a choice of lots of engineers for live monitoring because they reject a good bit of outside noise, but I thought they were really boomy and inaccurate at the low end, with too much LF emphasis.... The M50 in general seems more neutral in tone to me.

I like my Denon 7000s a lot for listening but as page said, you have to be mindful when mixing on them. 
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Re: Most accurate headphone for monitoring?
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2013, 01:10:41 PM »
audeze lcd2- would love to have these but pricey

how about the hifiman he500?  still expensive for me

i wasn't sure if the ortho's were good as monitors compared to standards like the sennheiser.

sennheiser hd600 vs hd650 . which one is more accurate?

I'd trust my work on the hd600s first before the 650s which seem to have an odd bump in the upper bass region. I at least knew what I was missing with the hd600s and could compensate, but the 650s threw me for a loop when I tried them at a meet once.

the hifiman series are excellent for detail (as all orthos seem to be due to their response), but they are much brighter.
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Re: Most accurate headphone for monitoring?
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2013, 03:23:31 PM »
I choose the HD650 after listening to as many different phones as I could at a meet and finding it most balanced.  HD600 was on my audition list but unfortunately wasn't available.  I'd like to hear the difference in the two and have wondered if I'd prefer the 600s but was unwilling to buy a pair without getting a chance to try them.
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Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

 

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