Topic: Help me decide. nbox or 4061>mma 6000?

[SClassical]

Sorry for being stupid....What's a "littlebox"?

[johnw]

The CMRs by themselves don't have any gain. To get variable gain, you need to use something like the littlebox. Also, the CMR housing is longer than the Nbox if size is important.

This puzzles me.
What gain do you need at 8 mV/Pa?
Also:
CMR is attached to the mic capsule. The nbox is out ouf sight.
The batterybox is smaller than the nbox.

Regardless of the sensitivity, most recordings need some gain applied. With 24 bit recording, some people do not use any gain prior to the creation of the .wav file and instead apply gain with software to that file later. Most people however want some gain applied prior to the creation of that file to keep the signal to noise ratio low and utilize as much of the available 24 bits as they can.

The CMR decreases the capsule sensitivity by 40% compared to the Nbox. At a 110dB rock concert, this probably doesn't make a difference, but it will require more gain to create an equal file.

The CMR attaches to the mic capsule just like an Nbox cable, but it houses more electronics and is therefore about twice as long. Basically the overall length of the capsule with housing attached is much longer. I'll post a comparison photo below.

[aaronji]

Sorry for being stupid....What's a "littlebox"?

Preamp from Naiant (mshilarious from this board) with lots of configuration options...http://www.naiant.com/studiostore/microphoneamplifiers.html

[johnw]

Here's two pictures I photoshopped together showing how the CMR housing is just a bit longer than the nbox

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Here's two pictures I photoshopped together showing how the CMR housing is just a bit longer than the nbox

Two points, probably obvious:

1.  That extra length will make some installations that work with kc5-size colettes impractical
2.  The extra length will result in wider than normal capsule spacing in Kwon bars

[schoepsnbox]

Here's another thought..if you go with the Nbox you can run your mk4 and mk41 caps at open shows and compare..bet there where times you wondered what the recording would have sounded like if you had used one pair over the other...hmmmm!

[udovdh]

Regardless of the sensitivity, most recordings need some gain applied.

At 8mV/Pa I do need attenuation in most cases. (R09 near or in the the dangerzone)
So maybe you could change the recorder? Or at least consider a 2-wire capsule and a resistor?

Thanks for the pics. I don't use bars so I can't comment from experience there.

[johnw]

Regardless of the sensitivity, most recordings need some gain applied.

At 8mV/Pa I do need attenuation in most cases. (R09 near or in the the dangerzone)
So maybe you could change the recorder? Or at least consider a 2-wire capsule and a resistor?

Thanks for the pics. I don't use bars so I can't comment from experience there.

Not sure I understand what you are saying. Schoeps capsules are fairly complex and not something that you just solder a couple of wires to and connect to a battery box.

The capsule is normally 13mV/Pa when connected to a CMC6 preamp (which is the microphne body) and if you just supplied the preamp/body with 12V or 48V of phantom power, you would barely be getting a signal on any recorder unless that recorder is applying some gain. With the R09HR, I would guess you would have to have the gain set to at least 60 to get any measurable levels. If you set the gain to unity (no gain) which is around 40, I doubt anything would even show up on the metering at a 120dB concert.

Not sure what microphones you are using, but if their sensitivity is around 8mV/Pa and you have them wired to a battery box going into your recorder (set at unity so it isn't applying any gain) and are getting measurable levels then you must be at some extremely loud concerts.

FWIW, the Nbox paired with either the M10 or the 722 (both at unity-no gain) gives me measurable levels with peaks usually between -20 to -6 dB, but I like to have the peaks between -3 and 0, so I usually add another 5-10dB of gain from the recorder.

[udovdh]

(....)
That's just average level though, if a concert measures 116dBSPL on a slow-response C-weighted SPL meter, you're going to be dealing with peaks that will take you pretty close to (if not over) 0dBFS.  So I think it's entirely possible that some concerts could be recorded with no gain.

Thanks for the explanation. This helps a lot.

Regardless of the sensitivity, most recordings need some gain applied.

At 8mV/Pa I do need attenuation in most cases. (R09 near or in the the dangerzone)
So maybe you could change the recorder? Or at least consider a 2-wire capsule and a resistor?

Thanks for the pics. I don't use bars so I can't comment from experience there.

Not sure I understand what you are saying. Schoeps capsules are fairly complex and not something that you just solder a couple of wires to and connect to a battery box.

Yes, sure.
I just said that some solutions can be as simple as a resistor and a fairly decent 2-wire connected mic.
Perhaps not the way to go for some folks, but it can work well.

Not sure what microphones you are using, but if their sensitivity is around 8mV/Pa and you have them wired to a battery box going into your recorder (set at unity so it isn't applying any gain) and are getting measurable levels then you must be at some extremely loud concerts.

Sennheiser specifies 10-14 dB of gain from the 2-wire hookup of the capsules in their elec-wire.pdf.