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Author Topic: Wireless (Airport-extreme) distance run/ best way?  (Read 18860 times)

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Offline ArchivalAudio

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Re: Wireless (Airport-extreme) distance run/ best way?
« Reply #45 on: October 24, 2010, 11:29:47 PM »
ok so
in a preliminary test moving out the garage with the powerline adaptors - my speed significantly decreased  like less then 1/2 to a 1/4 as fast...
however this presumably is attributed to the fact I am trying to use home wiring to run Ethernet.

I am curious if it would be worthwhile to get a new Airport extreme- 802.11n
here is a good description in a real world type of review
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/apple-tv/apple-tv-faq/what-is-802.11n-differences-between-802.11n-802.11a-802.11b-802.11g.html

in playing with the powerline adapters in the house its not bad, depending on the outlets used
but when moving tot the garage the red LED blinks - which according to user manual means less than 50mbps
I am wondering if withe r the combo of the powerline (or not using them ) and
a new 802.11n extreme http://store.apple.com/us/product/FC340LL/A?mco=MTc4MzI5NzM
might solve my dilemma?
I'm getting the feeling I'm just throwing money at the issue... but hey it's only money I don't really have to spare at the moment- oh-well!

thanx
--Ian
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Offline keytohwy

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Re: Wireless (Airport-extreme) distance run/ best way?
« Reply #46 on: October 25, 2010, 12:42:19 PM »
ok so
in a preliminary test moving out the garage with the powerline adaptors - my speed significantly decreased  like less then 1/2 to a 1/4 as fast...
however this presumably is attributed to the fact I am trying to use home wiring to run Ethernet.

I am curious if it would be worthwhile to get a new Airport extreme- 802.11n
here is a good description in a real world type of review
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/apple-tv/apple-tv-faq/what-is-802.11n-differences-between-802.11n-802.11a-802.11b-802.11g.html

in playing with the powerline adapters in the house its not bad, depending on the outlets used
but when moving tot the garage the red LED blinks - which according to user manual means less than 50mbps
I am wondering if withe r the combo of the powerline (or not using them ) and
a new 802.11n extreme http://store.apple.com/us/product/FC340LL/A?mco=MTc4MzI5NzM
might solve my dilemma?
I'm getting the feeling I'm just throwing money at the issue... but hey it's only money I don't really have to spare at the moment- oh-well!

thanx
--Ian

One, or even two, newer Airports would be ideal.  Anything else, and should expect degraded results.  You'll want to balance that performance and price, and make the decision that fits you best.  How fas is your broadband connection?  How many 'n' devices do you have now?  Is having the internet connection in your garage worth $300?  $200?  $50?

keytohwy

Offline ArchivalAudio

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Re: Wireless (Airport-extreme) distance run/ best way?
« Reply #47 on: October 25, 2010, 01:49:16 PM »
^^^ All great questions.
1st its priceless :)  my detached garage- will be my office / studio and entertainment space.

Currently we have a charter cable dsl modem/wireless router for my wife that we plan on dropping in favor of a straight up cable modem as we also already have another wireless router (from OWC) that we are plaing on using for the house network.
and I'll have some airport extreme in the garage for my network

only n device we have currently is my new
i3 3.06Ghz iMac (june2010)

as I was typing I realized the new/old (yet to be set up)  newer technology  wireless-n router model # mxp802nrtr is an n router and that I get that sucka set up asap.... :)
http://www.newertech.com/products/router.php
maybe that will also help matters
--Ian
« Last Edit: October 26, 2010, 02:18:45 AM by ArchivalAudio »
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Re: Wireless (Airport-extreme) distance run/ best way?
« Reply #48 on: October 26, 2010, 03:49:53 AM »
so
ok
I am used to the simplicity of Airport and port forwarding... I get the maxpower set up and it seems to be faster but I can not seem to see or forward ports  - what am I missing?
the airport utility  does not work since it is not an airport device
what next?
I am ready to get the current refurbed unit unless I can forward ports...


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Offline scb

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Re: Wireless (Airport-extreme) distance run/ best way?
« Reply #49 on: October 26, 2010, 09:05:02 AM »
in playing with the powerline adapters in the house its not bad, depending on the outlets used
but when moving tot the garage the red LED blinks - which according to user manual means less than 50mbps
I am wondering if withe r the combo of the powerline (or not using them ) and
a new 802.11n extreme http://store.apple.com/us/product/FC340LL/A?mco=MTc4MzI5NzM
might solve my dilemma?

What kind of speed are you expecting with the Airport? it'll definitely be "less than 50mbps." or was that a typo and you meant 5?

Do you know the actual speed you're getting with the powerline adapter?

Offline ArchivalAudio

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Re: Wireless (Airport-extreme) distance run/ best way?
« Reply #50 on: October 26, 2010, 01:33:14 PM »
in playing with the powerline adapters in the house its not bad, depending on the outlets used
but when moving tot the garage the red LED blinks - which according to user manual means less than 50mbps
I am wondering if withe r the combo of the powerline (or not using them ) and
a new 802.11n extreme http://store.apple.com/us/product/FC340LL/A?mco=MTc4MzI5NzM
might solve my dilemma?

What kind of speed are you expecting with the Airport? it'll definitely be "less than 50mbps." or was that a typo and you meant 5?

Do you know the actual speed you're getting with the powerline adapter?
good question... I know the old airport is only 54mbps at best anyway
it's just when the powerline adapters are both in the house, all the lights are green and  it appears that I can get resonable speed - however I have yet to just try plugging the Ethernet in direct that may give me a truer speed thruput.
more later
--Ian
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Offline rjp

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Re: Wireless (Airport-extreme) distance run/ best way?
« Reply #51 on: October 27, 2010, 11:05:23 PM »
it's just when the powerline adapters are both in the house, all the lights are green and  it appears that I can get resonable speed - however I have yet to just try plugging the Ethernet in direct that may give me a truer speed thruput.

One possibility - are the house and garage outlets on the same phase?

Electricity lesson: in the US and Canada, standard household service is normally split-phase 240V, with a center-tapped transformer providing two 120V hot leads and a grounded neutral from the center tap. In some cases, the feed is two phases plus neutral from a 208V three-phase wye feed, which still yields 120V on each phase. In either case, if adapter A is on phase 1 and adapter B is on phase 2, performance is going to be poor. I've seen capacitive coupling devices that can provide a bridge for the high-frequency Ethernet signal, which can plug into a 240/208 socket.

On the other hand, the signal might just be getting degraded by distance.
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Offline DigiGal

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Re: Wireless (Airport-extreme) distance run/ best way?
« Reply #52 on: November 20, 2010, 02:43:52 PM »
Ian,

Finally determined my saucer Airport Extreme has been giving problems lately after my ISP recently fixed their issues.  Turns out there are several people that started experiencing the same issues with these units according to this Apple Discussions thread.

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2520326&start=0&tstart=0

I decided to replace it with a current model airport extreme since the Protection Plan expired.  I was considering a new one anyway before the problem started.  Apple set me up with a certified refurbished unit that is fully covered under my current Apple Care Protection Plan.

To follow up:  Just by replacing my old saucer extreme router with the new flat style extreme router my problems stopped and as a bonus my internet speed instantly increased too. 
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Offline ArchivalAudio

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Re: Wireless (Airport-extreme) distance run/ best way?
« Reply #53 on: November 21, 2010, 01:12:22 AM »
Ian,

Finally determined my saucer Airport Extreme has been giving problems lately after my ISP recently fixed their issues.  Turns out there are several people that started experiencing the same issues with these units according to this Apple Discussions thread.

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2520326&start=0&tstart=0

I decided to replace it with a current model airport extreme since the Protection Plan expired.  I was considering a new one anyway before the problem started.  Apple set me up with a certified refurbished unit that is fully covered under my current Apple Care Protection Plan.

To follow up:  Just by replacing my old saucer extreme router with the new flat style extreme router my problems stopped and as a bonus my internet speed instantly increased too. 

Thank you DigiGal!
To follow with my situation I also got a new n type Airport extreme, still also have the powerline adapters, I currently have them set up in the house and the Airport in the back bedroom closest to the garage. With my old iBook( which can only get g and not n) I get a weak signal in the garage, outside the the step of the garage it is much stronger. So this weekend I plan on moving out my iMac to the garage and see if I can get a strong enough signal- otherwise I am moving the Airport and 1 powerline adapter to the garage where I suspect  the powerline /Ethernet connection will be weak.
however either way I have NOT had to dig trenches or run cable!!! :):) :) :) :)  but it did cost me over $200 - but hey time is money right?

more soon!
--Ian
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Offline ArchivalAudio

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Re: Wireless (Airport-extreme) distance run/ best way?
« Reply #54 on: November 24, 2010, 01:18:24 AM »
ok
So I tried  to see if I could connect my new n Airrport extreme with it in the house and my iMac in the garage. - really sloooow and no up load speed-
then I moved one powerline adapter and the airport into the garage with even worse results! http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/ even failed to have U/L results

My garage has reflectix  [url]http://www.reflectixinc.com/[/url ]insulation on all the walls and ceiling  with is like silver mylar coated (2sides) bubble pack. I believe it is not only a radiant barrier but a wifi inhibitor as well.

SO my next step is to go with my original plan - which I think would yeild the best connection - which is routing an Ethernet cable from the house to the garage, either by trenching it in conduit underground (under a number of concrete side walks. Or flying it parallel to the Phone wire that goes from the house to the garage.
Does anyone know about weatherproof Ethernet cable?
or is there a way to use regular Phone wire as Ethernet?

looks like I am back to square ONE!

any help or Ideas would be helpful

--Ian
« Last Edit: November 24, 2010, 03:25:28 AM by ArchivalAudio »
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Offline rjp

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Re: Wireless (Airport-extreme) distance run/ best way?
« Reply #55 on: November 24, 2010, 09:18:51 AM »
My garage has reflectix  [url]http://www.reflectixinc.com/[/url ]insulation on all the walls and ceiling  with is like silver mylar coated (2sides) bubble pack. I believe it is not only a radiant barrier but a wifi inhibitor as well.

SO my next step is to go with my original plan - which I think would yeild the best connection - which is routing an Ethernet cable from the house to the garage, either by trenching it in conduit underground (under a number of concrete side walks. Or flying it parallel to the Phone wire that goes from the house to the garage.
Does anyone know about weatherproof Ethernet cable?
or is there a way to use regular Phone wire as Ethernet?

Could you mount an outdoor antenna on the garage? If not, does the garage have a window facing the house? A clear path would work wonders.

If you run cable, from a safety standpoint (lightning strikes/surges), you need to have a protector wherever the cable enters a building. Or else, run fiber instead of copper.

For existing phone wire, some DSL modems can be configured to work in pairs without a DSLAM, so you could run DSL between the buildings (provided you isolate it from any existing DSL service). However, it would be best that the cable be twisted-pair, not old-school quad wire. Quad wire has red/green/yellow/black, while twisted pair would have blue/white and orange/white pairs. You could put the phone on one pair, and the DSL on the other pair to keep it away from telco's DSL.

Are there neighboring WiFi networks sharing the same channel? That could also be affecting your performance. Channels 1, 6, and 11 don't overlap, so if there are a bunch of nearby installations on 6, try switching yours to 1 or 11.
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Offline ArchivalAudio

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Re: Wireless (Airport-extreme) distance run/ best way?
« Reply #56 on: November 25, 2010, 01:24:30 AM »
could this  one work on the house side?
http://www.hawkingtech.com/products/productlist.php?CatID=32&FamID=122&ProdID=403 on amazon http://www.amazon.com/Hawking-HOWABN1-Hi-Gain-Wireless-N-Multifunction/dp/tech-data/B0036VO394/ref=de_a_smtd

it's like just over $200  - Ouch!

however it appear that it works with a normal Ethernet cable.

any other ideas?

--Ian
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Offline ArchivalAudio

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Re: Wireless (Airport-extreme) distance run/ best way?
« Reply #57 on: November 25, 2010, 01:46:00 AM »
My garage has reflectix  [url]http://www.reflectixinc.com/[/url ]insulation on all the walls and ceiling  with is like silver mylar coated (2sides) bubble pack. I believe it is not only a radiant barrier but a wifi inhibitor as well.

SO my next step is to go with my original plan - which I think would yeild the best connection - which is routing an Ethernet cable from the house to the garage, either by trenching it in conduit underground (under a number of concrete side walks. Or flying it parallel to the Phone wire that goes from the house to the garage.
Does anyone know about weatherproof Ethernet cable?
or is there a way to use regular Phone wire as Ethernet?

Could you mount an outdoor antenna on the garage? If not, does the garage have a window facing the house? A clear path would work wonders.

If you run cable, from a safety standpoint (lightning strikes/surges), you need to have a protector wherever the cable enters a building. Or else, run fiber instead of copper.

For existing phone wire, some DSL modems can be configured to work in pairs without a DSLAM, so you could run DSL between the buildings (provided you isolate it from any existing DSL service). However, it would be best that the cable be twisted-pair, not old-school quad wire. Quad wire has red/green/yellow/black, while twisted pair would have blue/white and orange/white pairs. You could put the phone on one pair, and the DSL on the other pair to keep it away from telco's DSL.

Are there neighboring WiFi networks sharing the same channel? That could also be affecting your performance. Channels 1, 6, and 11 don't overlap, so if there are a bunch of nearby installations on 6, try switching yours to 1 or 11.


rjp
thank you
Last to first;
in the garage I was "seeing other networks" I did see on won 11 and I think a couple on 6  according to iStumbler. My 5Ghz n Network is on channel 149 ( which for some reason I could not see or receive in the garage - only the g network that was on 11 But I switched to 10.  for some reason I could not see my named 5Ghz network but got the g - showing up as n or may be that was just the router showing as n capable. in the house I see 2 networks on ch1 and 2 on ch6.

after I posted this I researched the phone wire Idea an noticed as you state they are not the twisted pairs of CAT5 or CAT5e.

the garage does indeed have a window in a line with the house- however there is an old apple tree and a larger cedar in between the two  they do not completely directly block the run... but mostly do. that was sort of my hope is getting a semi straight shot from the back bedroom of the house to the garage.  Would window to window sight-line be better than through the router behind a wall that would have a mostly clear line of sight to the window in the garage in question?
Yes I could easily mount an antenna on either the house or the garage - or both, I guess I don't know which to use. It would certainly be MUCH better than running a cable out there.
The current version airport extreme - does not have an antenna  connection (as n is supposed to be 5x greater coverage then g - according to apple)

What sort of device would I need on the garage end to have the antenna connect to my iMac?
I would love this solution - I guess I need to read more - or a pointer in the direction would he very helpful.

thanx again
--Ian
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since 1986 & digitally since 1995

https://www.facebook.com/ArchivalAudio/

Main Mics: Milab VM-44 Links • Milab DC-196's (Matched  Pair)  • MBHO KA500 or KA300 •
PreAmps:  BaybNbox  • Naiant LittleBox • Naiant [Milab VM44] TinyBox • Naiant PIPsqueak
Recorders: MixPre 10T •  Tascam DR-100 mkIII • Sony A-10 • Sony M-10 

macMini 3Ghz i7 16GB Ram 500GB SSD • MOTU UltraLite
Naiant MSH-2's •   TOA K1's • Beyer TG 153c's •  AT 853 (4.7kmod darktrain) • Countryman B3's (1 k mod)  + other assorted mics

Offline ArchivalAudio

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Re: Wireless (Airport-extreme) distance run/ best way?
« Reply #58 on: November 25, 2010, 04:04:19 AM »
would a computer side boster antenna work as well?
like this:
http://www.hawkingtech.com/products/productlist.php?CatID=35&FamID=111&ProdID=396&AppleComp=1

it would hopefully help reception on the computer end and perhaps help with the U/L speeds- yes? no?
at new egg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833164037
at amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Hawking-HWUN3-Wireless-N-Upgradeable-Antennas/dp/B001O5BF0Y/ref=pd_sim_e_2

for $34 it seems that might be worth a try?

thanx for replies
--Ian
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Offline ArchivalAudio

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Re: Wireless (Airport-extreme) distance run/ best way?
« Reply #59 on: November 25, 2010, 04:16:35 AM »
looks like with the abouve I could also - reverse antanna tht unit
and add
this one:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000AD4JEA/ref=asc_df_B000AD4JEA1332508?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&tag=pg-397-100-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395093&creativeASIN=B000AD4JEA
and
http://www.amazon.com/Hawking-RP-SMA-TO-RJ-SMA-HAC7SS/dp/B0000DIESO/ref=pd_bxgy_e_text_b

which may also help reception if the previous item did not completely help?

any feedback?
thanx
--Ian
~ Archival Audio ~
Archiving Worthy Music
since 1986 & digitally since 1995

https://www.facebook.com/ArchivalAudio/

Main Mics: Milab VM-44 Links • Milab DC-196's (Matched  Pair)  • MBHO KA500 or KA300 •
PreAmps:  BaybNbox  • Naiant LittleBox • Naiant [Milab VM44] TinyBox • Naiant PIPsqueak
Recorders: MixPre 10T •  Tascam DR-100 mkIII • Sony A-10 • Sony M-10 

macMini 3Ghz i7 16GB Ram 500GB SSD • MOTU UltraLite
Naiant MSH-2's •   TOA K1's • Beyer TG 153c's •  AT 853 (4.7kmod darktrain) • Countryman B3's (1 k mod)  + other assorted mics

 

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