Topic: new computer build

[JasonSobel]

It's definitely time to replace my old computer with a new one (currently running a Dell that I bought in Dec 2003).
I think I'd like to build one from scratch.  This is the first time I've ever built one on my own.
I don't really do any gaming, nor much video work, so I'm pretty sure that the GPU on the mobo will be just fine.
I don't need a new keyboard, mouse, nor speakers, so those are left off.  I may or may not get a new monitor, I think the one I have now is just fine.  For the time being, I've left the monitor off the list.

I'm posting here to get some input, thoughts, etc..  and to make sure that (1) I'm not forgetting about anything, (2) that the components that I have listed are all compatible with each other, (3) that I'm not skimping anywhere that I shouldn't (power supply?).

I will be installing Windows 7 64 bit home edition.

I'd like to keep the hardware around $500 or less.
Her's what I'm thinking right now

case:
Antec Three Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042
$60

motherboard:
ASUS M4A88TD-V
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131646
$120

processor:
AMD Phenom II X4 955
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103808
$120

power supply:
Antec EarthWatts Green EA-380D Green 380W
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371033
$45

RAM:
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231311
$65

hard drive:
Western Digital Caviar Black WD5002AALX 500GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136795
$60

DVD Burner:
HP 24X Multiformat DVD Writer
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827140042
$25

total hardware cost - $495

any thoughts?

[mattmiller]

I can't really advise you on anything AMD, but what jumps out at me is:

1.  380W isn't a lot of power these days.  It may be sufficient (barely) if you aren't using the system for a lot of power-hungry devices, but it wouldn't cost you much more for a good one in the neighborhood of 500W.  You can almost always find one for $50 or so, even if it's after a mail-in rebate.
2.  500 GB isn't a lot of hard drive space, but I'm sure you realize that, so maybe it's enough for you.  Are you not using this system for any storage of WAV masters?
3.  8 GB of RAM might be overkill for you since you said you won't be using it for anything intensive enough to require anything more than the onboard video.  Don't get me wrong -- the more RAM the better, especially as cheap as it is these days.  But if you're looking to save money, it sounds like you might not use all of that RAM on this system.

EDIT TO ADD:  It looks like that case is well-liked, but notice that it is a bottom-mount PSU design.  Many people like this, and I'm sure it all works out the same in the end.  I just prefer the traditional top-mount design.  I have this case and love it:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119068

[rastasean]

1. power supply is a little weak but it could work.

2. I like the motherboard since it has 4 memory channels. I've been looking at a few and they only have two channels which could make it expensive to upgrade the RAM.

3. I prefer AMD over intel and with this kit it looks like the heat skin and fan are included.
check this cpu out: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103809&cm_sp=DailyDeal-_-19-103-809-_-Product
its just one model under the one you picked and its $10 off with a coupon code.

4. That's a good amount of RAM. I don't think its overkill.

5. pretty sure you would need thermal paste unless its included with the mobo or the processor. I just picked this one because its the highest rating...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100007&cm_re=thermal_paste-_-35-100-007-_-Product

6. If you have an existing dvd drive, perhaps you could use that.

7. Just a personal question but why windoz 7?

[flipp]

Always liked AMD processors. If I've built it myself I used them. Prebuilts have always had Intel processors. All have functioned well it is just for my needs AMD has had a better price/performance sweet spot so that's what I've used in my builds.

If you plan on using this for any audio work don't forget a card reader. In my experience they are much faster than USB transfers. < also good for anything originally written to a memory card - pics and video both transfer much faster than from the device they were recorded with >

Power supply should be bumped to minimum of 450 watts IMO.

Not familiar with the Antec cases but have built two using the case Matt linked. My only complaint about that case is the front bezel openings are very tight when inserting drives but unless you add drives you should only have to deal with it once. I do wish the HD cage sat sideways as it is easier to add/swap drives since a longitudinal cage often produces interference/clearance issues with add-in cards when adding/changing HDs. The latter applies to all cases, not just the CoolerMaster linked.

Also curious why only one HD. Are you planning on reusing some you already have or using externals?
< since the MB has an eSATA port you might consider a HD dock if using bare drives as swappable storage and don't want to open the case everytime you want to exchange drives >

[bhtoque]

Just a couple thoughts:

1. upgrade the power supply. 500w is prob the sweet spot without a graphics card to worry about. More is better especially if you plan to add drives down the road.

2. Budget in for fans for the front of the case(unless you'll only have the 1 drive in it) Also make sure all the case fans are set to exhaust so you're not sucking in dust.

3. You'll get a better bang/buck cutting the ram and adding a 2nd drive. Set one for the OS and the other for your audio editor's swapfile. This would up your cost $30 unless you have an sata drive to migrate from the old system. Not sure what you use but a lot of software won't make use of the extra ram.

4. I 2nd the card reader and thermal paste suggestions.

JAson

Edit to add an anti-static wrist strap is a must for a system build.

[rastasean]

I still think the RAM is fine since he will be running windoz and it loves to eat ram. Plus this will give him the ability to run multiple applications at the same time without any fear of running out.

[Red Boink]

Antec is a good choice for the case and PS.  I just put a box together with an antec 620 green PS.  Do not strainewegg Power supply, you want some headroom for expansion...  I don't think the 620 was much higher cost.  Check out the excellent user notes at newegg.

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

As others said...upgrade that PS.

Don't know much about the AMD stuff anymore. I used to use AMD CPU's, but have moved on to Intel because they have a pretty good lead over AMD now.

If you're willing to bump up the price to a hair over $600...a SSD drive for your OS and programs will make that sucker scream. I run my OS and programs on my SSD and have moved all of my files to a conventional HD (I moved all of my User files to this drive). Upgrading to SSD is EASILY the best upgrade I've made on my computer. Programs start considerably faster. Windows loads from pushing the power button to the login screen in about 30 seconds.

This is plenty good:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227550

[JasonSobel]

thanks for all the comments, many have been very helpful.

I can't really advise you on anything AMD, but what jumps out at me is:

1.  380W isn't a lot of power these days.  It may be sufficient (barely) if you aren't using the system for a lot of power-hungry devices, but it wouldn't cost you much more for a good one in the neighborhood of 500W.  You can almost always find one for $50 or so, even if it's after a mail-in rebate.

It seems that most of you are suggesting a better power supply.  I'll definitely look into it.

2.  500 GB isn't a lot of hard drive space, but I'm sure you realize that, so maybe it's enough for you.  Are you not using this system for any storage of WAV masters?

I have a media server in the basement with close to 10 TB (all backed up, of course).  The new computer will not be used for any real storage of my recordings/audio collection.  Rather, I'll process them, or download or whatever, on this new computer, and then copy everything to the media server for storage.  On the computer I'm using right right now, I'm getting by with a 40gb internal drive + 320gb external.

I've thought about getting a 1 TB drive for the new computer, because I know that they are not much more money.  but, for the money, I'd rather get a drive that is a better drive (not the bottom of line or cheapest), rather than a larger drive, in hopes that it will last longer.

3.  8 GB of RAM might be overkill for you since you said you won't be using it for anything intensive enough to require anything more than the onboard video.  Don't get me wrong -- the more RAM the better, especially as cheap as it is these days.  But if you're looking to save money, it sounds like you might not use all of that RAM on this system.

I know that 8gb of RAM might be a little overkill.  but another goal of mine for this system, that I probably should have mentioned, is to have it go for 7-8 years before needing to be replaced.  In the 8 years that I've had my current computer, the only upgrade I've done is upgrading the RAM from 512 MB to 2.5 GB.  I figure, 8gb of RAM should go a long way into the future.  and with 4 slots for RAM in the motherboard, I can always put in more down the road if I ever need it.

EDIT TO ADD:  It looks like that case is well-liked, but notice that it is a bottom-mount PSU design.  Many people like this, and I'm sure it all works out the same in the end.  I just prefer the traditional top-mount design.  I have this case and love it:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119068

I'll look in to that one as well.

3. I prefer AMD over intel and with this kit it looks like the heat skin and fan are included.
check this cpu out: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103809&cm_sp=DailyDeal-_-19-103-809-_-Product
its just one model under the one you picked and its $10 off with a coupon code.

My thoughts with AMD over intel is just based on cost to performance ratio.  based on my (fairly limited) experience with AMD, I think I'd prefer intel.  but I think the AMD will meet all my needs (and then some), and come in at a lower price point.

5. pretty sure you would need thermal paste unless its included with the mobo or the processor. I just picked this one because its the highest rating...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100007&cm_re=thermal_paste-_-35-100-007-_-Product

You and JAson mentioned thermal paste.  Please excuse my ignorance, but what am I using the thermal paste for?  I assume for something during the actual assembly.  I have spent most of my time reading up about the actual components, and I haven't really spent any time reading about the actual assembly, figuring that I would read up on that after everything is ordered.

6. If you have an existing dvd drive, perhaps you could use that.

The only DVD burner that I have now is an HP external USB 2.0/firewire drive.  I've been rocking this drive since Fall 2004, and it's served me well.  I guess I could continue to use it, but I think I'd prefer to go with an internal drive.  The internal that I linked to is an HP, chosen because it has favorable reviews, and because the HP external drive has lasted so long under heavy use.

7. Just a personal question but why windoz 7?

I don't really want to get into Windows 7 vs linux vs whatever else.  but the new comptuer is getting Windows 7.  The old computer is getting a new life and will be running some form of Linux (rather than Win XP, which it currently has).

If you plan on using this for any audio work don't forget a card reader. In my experience they are much faster than USB transfers. < also good for anything originally written to a memory card - pics and video both transfer much faster than from the device they were recorded with >

I currently have a USB 2.0 card reader that seems to be just fine.  I'm sort of getting out of the taping game, maybe just semi-retired.  My mics are sold.  I'm keeping the PMD-661 for DAT transfers, and so that I'll have a deck and can borrow mics the next time Phish is in town   So the internal card reader is definitely lower on the priority list.  That said, it's not totally out of the question, as it might be more convenient.  Are you suggesting something like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820223103
The details on that page say that it's a USB 2.0 interface, even though it's internal.  Based on that, I don't see how it would be faster than just continueing to use the external USB 2.0 card reader that I already have.  Or is there some other internal card reader that doesn't use a USB interface, and would be faster?

Also curious why only one HD. Are you planning on reusing some you already have or using externals?
< since the MB has an eSATA port you might consider a HD dock if using bare drives as swappable storage and don't want to open the case everytime you want to exchange drives >

you, JAson, and Fatah Ruark all mentioned either a second drive, either a regular hard drive, or a SSD for the operating system and programs.  I've thought about it, and I go back and forth.  I've got the 320gb (mentioned earlier in this post) that I'll continue to use in addition to the internal drive.  With three of you all suggesting it, maybe I'll take another look at having two drives.  but that will increase costs by $50-$100, if not more.

what about this one as a system drive:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136770

any thoughts?

2. Budget in for fans for the front of the case(unless you'll only have the 1 drive in it) Also make sure all the case fans are set to exhaust so you're not sucking in dust.

The case I linked to has the following:
"A rear-mounted 120mm TriCool fan as well as a top-mounted 140mm TriCool fan – both with 3-speed switch control – draw air through the case"
so it comes with those.
it also says:
"In addition, there's space for an additional pair of 120mm fans behind the front bezel to cool the HDD’s as well as the option to mount a third 120mm fan on the side of the case to cool the GPU"

Are you saying that I should get one (or two?) 120mm fans for the "front bezel" to coll the hard drives?  but not really needed if I go with just a single hard drive?  what about a single hard drive + a SSD?  the SSD doesn't generate heat like a regular hard drive, correct?

If I did decide to get additional fans, I assume something like this would be good:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185054
($25 each, or $50 for two) ($13 each, or $26 for two)
what do you think?

Edit to add an anti-static wrist strap is a must for a system build.

JAson - thanks for the tip.  I assume this is just so that I don't zap anything as I put it together, is that right?

for 5 bucks, it seems like this one is well reviewed:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16899261005

that will do the trick, right?

Antec is a good choice for the case and PS.  I just put a box together with an antec 620 green PS.  Do not strainewegg Power supply, you want some headroom for expansion...  I don't think the 620 was much higher cost.  Check out the excellent user notes at newegg.

thanks for the suggestion.  I assume you're talking about this one?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371031

based on all the comments here, 620W should be more than enough for everything.
at $70, that will add $25 to the total cost.



Thanks again to everyone for all the input, it's definitely very helpful!

[mattmiller]

You and JAson mentioned thermal paste.  Please excuse my ignorance, but what am I using the thermal paste for?  I assume for something during the actual assembly.  I have spent most of my time reading up about the actual components, and I haven't really spent any time reading about the actual assembly, figuring that I would read up on that after everything is ordered.

The thermal paste is for mounting the heatsink to the CPU.  Again, I'm not familiar with AMDs, but with Intel CPUs the stock paste that comes pre-applied to the stock heatsink is considered very poor.  The general consensus is that you want to clean that paste off and apply a bead of better paste (Arctic Silver 5 was the top choice when I built my last system a couple of years ago -- not sure if there's a newer and better paste now).  It's very important that this is done correctly, though, so look for instructions for applying paste specifically to your CPU.  You want to apply the bare minimum in order to fill in the microscopic imperfections between the surfaces of the heatsink and CPU.  It essentially bridges the microscopic gaps between the surfaces and thus pulls heat off of the CPU better.  But if you get too much, then you're just adding resistance to the heat flow.

EDIT TO ADD:  Cleaning the stock paste off the heatsink also has a "proper" procedure.  You want to use something like a coffee filter that won't leave behind any residue.  Just dip it in a little alcohol and wipe it off, trying not to touch the surface (the oils in your fingers are theoretically bad for heat transfer).  That should work just fine for fresh pre-applied paste.  Sometimes when I replace a CPU the old paste is pretty dry and crusty and it's harder to clean off.  I have a bottle of pure xylene which works even better than alcohol for getting the dry paste off (probably not needed for you, assuming the stock AMD paste is as easy to get off as the stock Intel paste).

Are you saying that I should get one (or two?) 120mm fans for the "front bezel" to coll the hard drives?  but not really needed if I go with just a single hard drive?  what about a single hard drive + a SSD?  the SSD doesn't generate heat like a regular hard drive, correct?

If I did decide to get additional fans, I assume something like this would be good:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185054
($25 each, or $50 for two)

A front fan is probably not necessary for one hard drive UNLESS you plan on placing the tower somewhere where airflow is restricted.  But, again, it's never a bad idea.  That fan you linked looks fine (it says it's $12.99 though, not $25).  You would certainly only need one (if you NEED it at all).

[Walstib62]

Thermal paste, or heat sink compound, helps transmit heat from the component to the heat sink for better cooling.

[mattmiller]

Also, if for any reason you decide on the Cooler Master case, it comes with an 80 mm fan in the front, so you wouldn't need to buy one.  If you decide to look at any other case be sure to check the specs to see what size fans they take, if they come with them, etc.

Some general thoughts that come to mind about building PC's:

My least favorite part every time is mounting the heatsink to the motherboard.  (Again -- maybe AMD's are different).  But most of the Intel heatsinks these days are very tight, with four "legs" that you have to push into holes on the motherboard.  It always feels like I'm going to snap the motherboard.  So be cautious of that.

My second least favorite part is making the connections from the front panel of the case to the motherboard (power switch, power reset, hard drive activity light, etc.).  The motherboard manual is almost always pretty clear about what goes where, but the wires from the case are often not labeled very well and the instructions that come with most cases are very poor.  And then once you figure out where to connect them you have to find a way to SEE yourself making the connections with your giant hands blocking your view, blocking the light, etc.

[flipp]

My initial concern with only one HD was based on not knowing you had TBs of storage available elsewhere. Since you have a large amount of storage and will only be using this for processing, the HD you originally planned is sufficient both size and speed wise. If you want something faster SSD leads the pack. If you want proven reliability consider something along the lines of a Seagate Cheetah or WD Velociraptor (10-15Krpm enterprise class drives with proven track records) but both are more expensive.

Card reader has USB connectivity cause you can plug a USB cable into it; however, the reader itself plugs into the floppy header on the MB - at least mine does - so you get faster throughput than connecting your external device, be it recorder, camera or whatever, with a cable. I transferred a 1.8gb file from the other night to two different boxes. My DAW with the card reader had it transferred in well under 2 minutes. To make sure I had a backup copy I used an external reader connected with USB2 cable and the transfer took about 8 minutes. From past experience if I had hooked the MT2496 to the second box and transferred via USB2 it would have been in the 15-18 minute range.

If budget is more a concern than time of transfer, and with you doing less recording then time becomes even less a factor, and you are satisfied with your current process there is no reason to spend money you don't really need to.

[rastasean]

Sorry, I didn't mean to bring up a sensitive subject with windows but if you're wanting to cut costs and don't already have the os, you could look elsewhere.
I like the selections you have made so far.

[JasonSobel]

thanks for all the very helpful replies.  Especially mattmiller - great info on thermal paste.  Not that it answers all my questions, but definitely points me in the right direction about what to read up on, and what to watch out for.

Card reader has USB connectivity cause you can plug a USB cable into it; however, the reader itself plugs into the floppy header on the MB - at least mine does - so you get faster throughput than connecting your external device, be it recorder, camera or whatever, with a cable. I transferred a 1.8gb file from the other night to two different boxes. My DAW with the card reader had it transferred in well under 2 minutes. To make sure I had a backup copy I used an external reader connected with USB2 cable and the transfer took about 8 minutes. From past experience if I had hooked the MT2496 to the second box and transferred via USB2 it would have been in the 15-18 minute range.

If budget is more a concern than time of transfer, and with you doing less recording then time becomes even less a factor, and you are satisfied with your current process there is no reason to spend money you don't really need to.

good to know.  while it seems like a good time savings, I think the external reader I have will do the job for now.  I can always add an internal one later if I want to speed things up.

Sorry, I didn't mean to bring up a sensitive subject with windows but if you're wanting to cut costs and don't already have the os, you could look elsewhere.
I like the selections you have made so far.

no worries.  and it's not that it's a sensitive subject, just that I wasnted to keep this thread focused on hardware, because I know that the Windows vs Linux vs Mac discussion can easily take on a life of it's own.

Basically, we're going with Windows 7 because it's what my wife is most comfortable with, and she'll be using the computer as well.  I know it'll add costs vs free linux OS, but that's the way it goes sometimes.  The cost of Win 7 was factored into my my decisions to have a hardware budget in the $500 +/- range.  Although I don't really want to push it much past that, I might be able to a bit.  The original hardware budget was $700 - $800 range, but we had to buy a new lawn mower this week, which is cutting in the new computer budget.  But, from the looks of it, I think I'll be just fine with the $500 +/- budget for the computer.  but if it's something that will really help push out the longevity of the machine, I could probably stretch the budget a little.

From the looks of it, based on the comments in this thread, the biggest thing that might stretch the $500 budget is a second HD or SSD for the operating system and programs.

thanks again for everyone's help.  and if anyone has any more thoughts/comments, I'm all ears

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

Sorry, I didn't mean to bring up a sensitive subject with windows but if you're wanting to cut costs and don't already have the os, you could look elsewhere.
I like the selections you have made so far.

I'll put my 2 cents in when it comes to Linux vs. Windoz. I do agree with you that it's a great way to cut costs, but only for certain people. Mainly enthusiasts, and really poor people that are only going to use it to surf the web.

I really enjoy Linux and I find it fun to get everything running nicely, but only on a secondary machine (I dual boot Ubuntu and Win 7 on my laptop, and only use Win 7 when Linux can't do what I want it to).

I just find it to be annoying when I'm really wanting to get something done and I have to do some research and tinkering to get Ubuntu doing what I want.

On top of that I just have found the options for programs to be so much better for Windows. Yes there are Linux options that are usually free that replace their Windows counterparts that cost $$$, but there a few Windows programs that are just unbeatable and worth the money, IMO.

Don't want to get into the Windows vs. Linux debate too much (at least not here), but IMO $100 for a rock solid OS, that is very well supported and can be very secure (if you're not a moron).

Seriously though...I would definitely consider the SSD upgrade. And with your 10TB of server storage you really only need temporary storage on your new desktop. Only reason I have a secondary drive in my computer with the SSD is that I prefer to edit my music locally, and SSD's have limited writes (which is why I suggested moving your documents, downloads, etc to a secondary drive). You could probably have less that 500GB of space, but I really don't see the point since you'd only be saving a few dollars to get a smaller HD.

Oh...and I forgot before. This is a really good website for reviews and build suggestions:

http://pcper.com/

They usually have a list of the best builds for certain price ranges.

[OFOTD]

Jason

What is more important to you in this decision current price/performance value, longterm p/p value or just simply the experience of rolling your own?

Assuming you are also having to buy W7 Home I'm guessing your total budget is about $650.  For that price you can find a machine from Dell or similar that will blow the doors off of the specs you had listed, OS included.   

As far as PSU's go alsways buy quality over total wattage.  If your machine only uses 300w then there is no reason to buy a 500w PSU.    A 400w or less if fine.  Buy the best one in your budget.

SSD's?   If you can't afford to buy a quality drive now then you are better served saving up to buy a quality drive later when you have the money.  There is a big difference between the good ones and the cheap ones.   

[rastasean]

Jason & Mike,

Thanks for your opinions and thoughts on windows and linux. One reason I like linux more is because there are hundreds of distributions available for someone to try for free on almost any hardware. Windows has xp, vista, and 7 which are pretty much the same imo; Mac OS X also seems to be the same from version to version and like higher versions of windows, require newer machines to run on. I don't mind the annoyances of researching linux things because I hope to always be using linux and hope to find/create a career around using it so I think of it as an education.

[JasonSobel]

Jason

What is more important to you in this decision current price/performance value, longterm p/p value or just simply the experience of rolling your own?

Assuming you are also having to buy W7 Home I'm guessing your total budget is about $650.  For that price you can find a machine from Dell or similar that will blow the doors off of the specs you had listed, OS included.   

you are correct.  Total budget, including OS, is $650-$700ish.

Number 1 factor for me is longterm price/performance value, number 2 is the experience of building my own.

Do you really think I can get a Dell in that price range that will "blow the doors off the specs" that I had listed?  I looked at Dell before trying to price out a home built system.  and it seemed like I could get comparable specs for a little more money, like $700-$800 range.  but not the better specs for the same price as a home built.  maybe I'm just not looking in the right place on the dell site?

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

Number 1 factor for me is longterm price/performance value

If you are providing the training and support for others in the household who don't use linux, then the long term cost of your time and their frustration is going to outweigh the price difference between Win7 and an Ubuntu install. 

And I'm writing that being a complete linux bigot since RH4.0.

edit for grammar

[OFOTD]

Do you really think I can get a Dell in that price range that will "blow the doors off the specs" that I had listed?

Okay so I went to Dell > Home/Home Office > Desktops & AIO Computers.   Checked the price range box $500- $800 and got results.  Three down is an Inspiron 620s for $549.  Here is what it includes and how those components stack up to what you priced out. Sorry for the ugly cut and paste.


My Software & Accessories
Microsoft® Office Starter: reduced-functionality Word & Excel w/ ads. No PowerPoint or Outlook
2 Year Basic Service Plan
6GB DDR3 SDRAM at 1333MHz- 2 DIMMs  - 2GB less than what you priced but this is always the easiest future upgrade and currently more that you will use.
Intel® HD Graphics - Personally I think the integrated graphics from AMD (ATI products) are terrible.   Always conflicting with other hardware.   Intel are pretty standard. Now for separate Graphics Cards the ATI fair better but their integrated video...no thanks
McAfee SecurityCenter , 15-Months
My Accessories
DataSafe 2.0 Online Backup 2GB for 1 year
Also Includes
Adobe® Acrobat® Reader
No TV Tuner Requested
Integrated 8 in 1 Media Card Reader   - One less thing to buy
Integrated 5.1
No Warranty Complete Care
Genuine Windows® 7 Home Premium, 64Bit, English    - There's your legal copy of Windows 7
Inspiron 620 Minitower w/ Black Bezel FT16  - I love the Antec case but this one is small.
Intel® Core™ i3-2100 processor(3MB Cache, 3.10GHz) - There is no question I would go for the Core i3 before I would go with ANY AMD processor.   This is a big upgrade. Even with the core count difference.  Ever wonder why the only positive people seem to give the AMD cpu's is their price and not actual performance?  I run a Core i7 920 OC'd and absolutely LOVE IT!
No Monitor
1TB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™ - Well there's a TB to get you through until you can afford a good SSD.
Black Bezel
16X DVD+/-RW Drive - Push
Dell USB Entry Keyboard - May not need it but it's included
Dell USB Optical Mouse - See keyboard

For $100 more you can upgrade to built in wireless and move to a Core i5.  Its the Inspiron 620 MT

So the only real advantage to rolling your own is the 2GB RAM difference.   With a Dell (or the like) you get support, a warranty and generally speaking better components. 

I have built many machines both for home and for work as well as for friends.  I truly believe that the only way you really benefit from building your own is when you are looking to build either a performance machine or a machine with a dedicated purpose like a dedicated HTPC.    For 99% of everyday computers users with a general household role for the machine are better served buying from a manufacturer that can kill on low prices. 

[mattmiller]

With a Dell (or the like) you get support, a warranty and generally speaking better components.

I have built many machines both for home and for work as well as for friends.  I truly believe that the only way you really benefit from building your own is when you are looking to build either a performance machine or a machine with a dedicated purpose like a dedicated HTPC.    For 99% of everyday computers users with a general household role for the machine are better served buying from a manufacturer that can kill on low prices.

I agree with your general premise that building your own budget system isn't going to save you money.  But I disagree that you're getting better components with a Dell.  In fact, I think the benefit of paying a little bit more and building it yourself is that you're buying BETTER components.  All the components that he picked out are well reviewed, but what is the quality of the PSU that Dell is putting in their economy systems?  They probably buy them for about $25 per pallet.

Also, the warranty provided by Dell for the OEM parts is often of shorter duration than the warranty you get when buying the retail versions of the components.  For example, before I built my first system I remember researching warranties and discovering that the system sold by Dell came with a 1 year warranty for everything, but the standard warranty for the Intel CPU was 3 years.  Part of that cost savings by buying through Dell is the shorter warranty.

[JasonSobel]

Okay so I went to Dell > Home/Home Office > Desktops & AIO Computers.   Checked the price range box $500- $800 and got results.  Three down is an Inspiron 620s for $549.  Here is what it includes and how those components stack up to what you priced out. Sorry for the ugly cut and paste.

thanks for taking the time to do the comparison

6GB DDR3 SDRAM at 1333MHz- 2 DIMMs  - 2GB less than what you priced but this is always the easiest future upgrade and currently more that you will use.

I agree, RAM is always the easiest upgrade.  but one thing that isn't clear is if the motherboard has four slots or just two.  If it has four slots, then I just pop in whatever RAM I want down the road, and it's in addition to the 6gb already there.  If there are only two slots, then when I upgrade, whatever I get will be instead of the 6gb, not in addition to.  Not a deal breaker by any means, but something that I am considering.

Intel® HD Graphics - Personally I think the integrated graphics from AMD (ATI products) are terrible.   Always conflicting with other hardware.   Intel are pretty standard. Now for separate Graphics Cards the ATI fair better but their integrated video...no thanks

thank you for sharing your opinion there.  like I said earlier, I'm not going to use it for any high end graphics, so as long as it works, I'm fine with it.  but if I'll have issues (conflicts?) that will cause my big head aches, that's another story.

Integrated 8 in 1 Media Card Reader   - One less thing to buy

A minor consideration.  Especially because I already have an external USB 2.0 card reader.  As discussed earlier, not as fast as an internal card reader, but fast enough to suffice.

Genuine Windows® 7 Home Premium, 64Bit, English    - There's your legal copy of Windows 7

Inspiron 620 Minitower w/ Black Bezel FT16  - I love the Antec case but this one is small.

While the Inspiron 620 mini tower is nice because it's small, it offers a lot less flexibility down the road, right?

Intel® Core™ i3-2100 processor(3MB Cache, 3.10GHz) - There is no question I would go for the Core i3 before I would go with ANY AMD processor.   This is a big upgrade. Even with the core count difference.  Ever wonder why the only positive people seem to give the AMD cpu's is their price and not actual performance?  I run a Core i7 920 OC'd and absolutely LOVE IT!

I'm sure the Core i7 920 OC'd is great.
On this page:
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html
The Intel Core i3-2100 @ 3.10GHz is rated at 3,829
the AMD Phenom II X4 955 is rated at 3,955

so on that benchmark page, the AMD comes out on top, although the two are fairly similar.
while most people who talk positively about the AMD mention price, it's usually in terms of price/performance ratio.
You get similar performance for less money.  Sure, Intel comes out on top for the best of the best.  but in general, AMD chips are just fine.

I have built many machines both for home and for work as well as for friends.  I truly believe that the only way you really benefit from building your own is when you are looking to build either a performance machine or a machine with a dedicated purpose like a dedicated HTPC.    For 99% of everyday computers users with a general household role for the machine are better served buying from a manufacturer that can kill on low prices.

thanks again for sharing your opinion.  It's certainly making me take a closer look at the dell.  part of it is that the dell site doesn't give a lot of specifics in regards to number of expansion slots, etc, etc..  which makes it hard to compare the fine details.

[mattmiller]

I agree, RAM is always the easiest upgrade.  but one thing that isn't clear is if the motherboard has four slots or just two.  If it has four slots, then I just pop in whatever RAM I want down the road, and it's in addition to the 6gb already there.  If there are only two slots, then when I upgrade, whatever I get will be instead of the 6gb, not in addition to.  Not a deal breaker by any means, but something that I am considering.

Crucial (www.crucial.com) normally is really good about telling you what kind of memory you need what the maximum capacity is.  In this case, I couldn't find this system on their website.  I did find it here, however:

http://www.memorystock.com/memory/DellInspiron620620s.html

This system has only two slots, with a maximum of 4GB per slot.

[rastasean]

Dell makes good stuff. They make nice servers I have a early/mid 2000s poweredge that I like a lot but I wouldn't buy a desktop new.

I think building a system could and would save you money but its about the kind of system you want to make. Jason's system will serve him for many years since he's not going to be doing a lot of media editing or high end graphics on it. You could easily exceed the price of a store bought computer if you were going to make a high end system, but the components in it would most likely last longer and be higher quality.

[OFOTD]

re: AMD vs. Intel    This one is alot easier than the Windows vs. Linux debate.   I would put my i7 up against the AMD any day and feel confident that the Intel will outperform it in every way except for price.   The quality of motherboard available for each chipset is a factor as well.  Another plus for Intel.   With the benchmark link you provide it appears the AMD and i3 compare extremely close with AMD barely edging the Intel out.  Remember the Intel is the same price, only two cores and it hangs with AMD 4 core option.

Here is the thing about RAM and keeping a machine 8 years.  Most low to mid mobo's are limited on how much RAM they can take before a firmware upgrade anyway.   The Dell I think maxes currently at 8GB total.   The  ASUS at 16GB.  Today we have 8GB on two sticks for $55.  In a year we are going to have 8GB on one stick for the same price.   Right now if you are using your new machine for just everyday basic tasks (webbrowsing, word processing, audio editing, etc) then 6GB or 8GB for the most part is more than enough.  Not until software developers take advantage of 64bit OS's will there be a need for more than that.  Two years away is very optimistic.  SoundForge, Wavelab, Audacity either don't have 64bit versions yet or if they do they don't utilize the expanded RAM.  So at worst you have two years to worry about adding RAM.   The way that flash memory is progressing now I would be surprised if we see 8GB on one stick for less than $25.     I also believe that within the next 12 months we'll have more mobo's with RAM on the board to start.   Additionally manufactures are starting to ramp up PCI type RAM meaning instead of buying two stick of RAM you'll buy a RAM card that fits into a PCI type slot which doesn't not have the limitations that the current RAM slots have.

ATI on-board video vs. Intel or Nvidia on-board would be a dealbreaker for me.  Not because of actual graphic performance but for the instability and general problems with those ATI chipsets.  There is a reason why Intel based mobo's are typically higher priced and it isn't because of the brand name ya know.

As far as flexability down the road I only see three things that require flexability.  RAM, hard drives and physical media drives.   Physical media drives are easy and soon to be relics.  Hard drives are obviously moving towards SSD and RAM is progressing so fast its a win for the consumer.     With the Inspiron you can add three more drives, one more physical media drive

Also let it be known that I just put the Dell as an example.  I am sure other large manufactures have similar products and similar price points.   Again I just really believe that if you're in the price point you seem to be in a prebuilt is a better solution from a retailer.  A pricer box or a box you expect to always tinker on would be the roll your own way.

[dnsacks]

I'm a big fan of slickdeals.net for this kinda thing -- here's a fairly nicely spec'd i3 dell for $399: http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3106700

here's a pretty screaming deal on a refurbished dell core i7 xps 8300 for $599 -- http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?sduid=0&t=3073135

Found these by searching "desktop" on slickdeals.net --

[rjp]

Regarding power supplies, I'd strongly recommend that you go over to http://www.jonnyguru.com/ - he does torture tests on power supplies. The results can sometimes be very amusing.

One of the dirty little secrets of the power supply business is that, for the most part, the brand names on the shelf don't actually build the PSUs - they farm the manufacturing out to one of the few firms that actually make power supplies. The manufacturers generally build to the specs of the packager.

[bhtoque]

I've thought about getting a 1 TB drive for the new computer, because I know that they are not much more money.  but, for the money, I'd rather get a drive that is a better drive (not the bottom of line or cheapest), rather than a larger drive, in hopes that it will last longer.

A smaller drive will have lower sector density which means longer life/less errors. The one you picked is a good fit, and I really like the caviar black line. They are what I use for storage, while the system runs on a faster raptor drive. Especially without game installs even down to the smaller WD1500BLFS 150GB you'd be fine, but it's 3x the price of the black. That's really the only way you'd get a "better drive"

I know that 8gb of RAM might be a little overkill.  but another goal of mine for this system, that I probably should have mentioned, is to have it go for 7-8 years before needing to be replaced.  In the 8 years that I've had my current computer, the only upgrade I've done is upgrading the RAM from 512 MB to 2.5 GB.  I figure, 8gb of RAM should go a long way into the future.  and with 4 slots for RAM in the motherboard, I can always put in more down the road if I ever need it.

You can not future proof a computer and the more you try the more $$ you will waste. Even 6 months from now that extra 4gigs of ram will be cheaper than it is now. Even something like SF10 only specs 512mb of ram. If you've got $400 to drop on the software, I'm sure they figure you could buy more ram, but they have not even started to suggest 1 gig to run it.

you, JAson, and Fatah Ruark all mentioned either a second drive, either a regular hard drive, or a SSD for the operating system and programs.  I've thought about it, and I go back and forth.  I've got the 320gb (mentioned earlier in this post) that I'll continue to use in addition to the internal drive.  With three of you all suggesting it, maybe I'll take another look at having two drives.  but that will increase costs by $50-$100, if not more.

what about this one as a system drive:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136770

any thoughts?

I only suggest a 2nd drive for editing performance. It is software dependent though. I use SF7 and with the program and os on one drive and with reserved space for a swapfile on the second, tasks like building peak files before editing go much faster. Helps with undo and other things too. Getting something like the blue you linked would not help you here. Spending less on ram makes it easier to budget for a 2nd drive, but like I already said even in the near future you can add a 2nd drive for less $$

Are you saying that I should get one (or two?) 120mm fans for the "front bezel" to coll the hard drives?  but not really needed if I go with just a single hard drive?  what about a single hard drive + a SSD?  the SSD doesn't generate heat like a regular hard drive, correct?

If I did decide to get additional fans, I assume something like this would be good:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185054
($25 each, or $50 for two) ($13 each, or $26 for two) what do you think?

Those are probably more than you would want. They move a ton of air, but are way too loud for an audio system. You can find something for 1/3rd the price that fits the bill like the $6 rosewill one listed in the 'similar items' section on the sycthe one you linked. low dba trumps high cfm in the proposed system. With fewer drives to throw off heat the front fans are not a must have, but that $5 fan may very well save your $50 drive, and certainly extends the life of the whole system.

JAson - thanks for the tip.  I assume this is just so that I don't zap anything as I put it together, is that right?

for 5 bucks, it seems like this one is well reviewed:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16899261005

that will do the trick, right?

Yup. That is what you need. It is amazing how little static it takes to fry ram or a mobo.

Someone mentioned making connections on the mobo and the front of the case, the best tool for that part is a fine pair of jeweler's tweezers (another $5, but SO worth not having frustration positioning jumpers or ruining the mobo by bending/snapping connector pins)


JAson

[JasonSobel]

thanks for all the help everyone.
I'm taking a close look at a Dell system, and also putting together another home built system.

One questions - it seems like all the Dell's have SATA 2 (3Gb/s), rather than SATA 3 (6Gb/s).
Can the 7200rpm WD caviar black har drive (that I linked to in the first post) really take advantage of the 6Gb/s?  am I going to notice a significant difference between that, and a Dell system with a 7200rpm hard drive connected via SATA 2 instead of SATA 3?

[JasonSobel]

alright, any thoughts or suggestiong here:

case:
COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-UW
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119068
$50

motherboard:
GIGABYTE GA-Z68X-UD3-B3 LGA 1155 Intel Z68 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128500
$140

video card: (I looked for a while, but it seems like most of the intel motherboards didn't have onboard video?)
GIGABYTE GV-N84STC-512I Rev2.0 GeForce 8400 GS
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125359
$30

power supply:
Antec NEO ECO 620C 620W Continuous Power ATX12V v2.3
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371031
$70

CPU:
Intel Core i5-2300 Sandy Bridge 2.8GHz
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115076
$185

RAM:
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231311
$65

hard drive:
Western Digital Caviar Black WD5002AALX 500GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136795
$60

DVD burner:
HP 24X Multiformat DVD Writer 24X
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827140042
$25

misc:
Rosewill RTK-002 Anti-Static Wrist Strap
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16899261005
$5

Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100007
$12

-------------------------
Total cost = $642

So this one breaks the budget.    and with the cost on Win 7 on top of that, I'm probably looking at the $800 - $830 range.
It's $100-$130 over budget, but at least it doesn't blow the roof off the budget.  I could probably swing it, but it's not ideal.

The CPU is a nice step up from the previous CPU's discussed in this thread.

For reference:
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html
Intel Core i5-2300 is rated at 5,478
AMD Phenom II X4 955 is rated at 3,955
Intel Core i3-2100 is rated at 3,829

any thoughts on this build?

any hardware changes where I could save some money, without giving up too much performance?
For motherboards, did I miss any good ones with on-board video?
If you've got any other motherboard suggestions, I'd like it to have both SATA 3 (6Gb/), and USB 3.

Thanks again to everyone who has provided input.

[mattmiller]

So this one breaks the budget.    and with the cost on Win 7 on top of that, I'm probably looking at the $800 - $830 range.
It's $100-$130 over budget, but at least it doesn't blow the roof off the budget.  I could probably swing it, but it's not ideal.

I don't have time to look at all your new components right now (long, busy day at work), but Windows 7 Home Premium is only $95, so I'm not sure how you're getting to $800+

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116986

[JasonSobel]

So this one breaks the budget.    and with the cost on Win 7 on top of that, I'm probably looking at the $800 - $830 range.
It's $100-$130 over budget, but at least it doesn't blow the roof off the budget.  I could probably swing it, but it's not ideal.

I don't have time to look at all your new components right now (long, busy day at work), but Windows 7 Home Premium is only $95, so I'm not sure how you're getting to $800+

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116986

I was looking at this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116716

seems to be the only difference is retail vs OEM.  what really the difference here?  Should I just go with OEM and save $100 (relative to the retail version)?

[dnsacks]

Windows 7 prices -- if you have access to a .edu email address, windows 7 can be had for $29.99 http://www.microsoft.com/student/en/us/windows/buynow/default.aspx

Also, just received this offer from Dell today -- http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=dxdoma4&c=us&l=en&s=eep&cs=6099&model_id=xps-8300&link_number=17967581

$579, shipped, for a xps 8300, i5 2310 processor, 6gb ram, a dvd writer/bluray reader and a 1tb hard disk drive. 

If you pick up a 60gb ssd for your primary drive (after purchase -- keep an eye on slickdeals.net and a good one can be had for well under $100) and make the included drive your secondary hard drive, you'd have a SCREAMING system that would come in under budget.

While I've wanted to build my own system for a while, deals like this have kept me buying (and modding) cheap dells for decades. 

[slightlys]

I have been running the AMD 955 for almost  two years and I love it! It has been a solid CPU for me. I do a lot of gaming and audio editing and it just cooks. the AMDs tend to run a little hotter then the Intels and consume a higher wattage as well. I have been running mine overclocked to 3.8 mhz since I got it with a aftermarket cooler and it always stays stable and in a safe temp range. I Highly recommend this AMD processor to you it is a work horse.

[mattmiller]

I was looking at this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116716

seems to be the only difference is retail vs OEM.  what really the difference here?  Should I just go with OEM and save $100 (relative to the retail version)?

The OEM is specifically for system-builders.  The difference in price reflects the fact that by buying it OEM you are saying that you will provide Windows support for the end user (which is you).  Unless you want the ability to call Microsoft for help figuring out how to use Windows to move a file from one folder to another, there's no reason to pay the retail price.

[slightlys]

Here is what I suggest you pick up from newegg. Fast and it will keep you under budget. I prefer Corsair power supplies(solid and cool temps) MSI mainboards (The board listed below has on board GPU and Audio), Mushkin RAM ( a Colorado company w/ excellent customer service )

   

LITE-ON 24X DVD Writer Black SATA Model iHAS424-98 LightScribe Support
Item #: N82E16827106335
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy

    
$23.99
1   

COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-UW Black Aluminum Bezel , SECC Chassis ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
Item #: N82E16811119068
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
-$5.00 Instant

    
$54.99
$49.99
1   

Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
Item #: N82E16822136319
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
-$5.00 Instant

    
$65.99
$60.99
1   

MSI 880GM-E41 AM3 AMD 880G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
Item #: N82E16813130295
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
-$5.00 Instant

    
$74.99
$69.99
1   

CORSAIR Builder Series CX600 V2 600W ATX12V v2.3 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply
Item #: N82E16817139028
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
-$10.00 Instant
$20.00 Mail-in Rebate Card

    
$79.99
$69.99
1   

Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - OEM
Item #: N82E16835100007
Return Policy: Consumable Item Refund Only Return Policy

    
$11.98
1   

Rosewill RTK-002 Anti-Static Wrist Strap
Item #: N82E16899261005
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
-$2.00 Instant

    
$6.99
$4.99
1   

Mushkin Enhanced Blackline 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model 996988
Item #: N82E16820226184
Return Policy: Memory Standard Return Policy

    
$69.99
1   

AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor HDZ955FBGMBOX
Item #: N82E16819103808
Return Policy: CPU Replacement Only Return Policy

    

$119.99
Subtotal:   $481.90

[morst]

I suggest going with this coolermaster case for a couple bux less ($40 with free shipping from clamazon), I love mine. http://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-Elite-Tower-Black/dp/B000K3N1RG

And I prefer Intel chips 'cause you can run "hackint0sh" on them.

And I don't like Dell 'cause you can't overclock them.

[rjp]

The OEM is specifically for system-builders.  The difference in price reflects the fact that by buying it OEM you are saying that you will provide Windows support for the end user (which is you).  Unless you want the ability to call Microsoft for help figuring out how to use Windows to move a file from one folder to another, there's no reason to pay the retail price.

There is one disadvantage to the OEM version - it locks itself to your hardware, and if it detects major changes (e.g. imaged onto a different hard drive, or a different CPU installed), it will phone home to Microsoft for re-activation. Do that too many times, and it won't re-activate.

[Colin Liston]

I have no idea if this site is legit, but Window Ultimate is only $20:

https://wholesalesoftwareprovider.com/index.php?_a=viewCat&catId=2

[flipp]

if you want an actual disc and COA rather than just a download w/key it's $100, not really that much cheaper than unquestionably legit dealers

[mattmiller]

I have no idea if this site is legit, but Window Ultimate is only $20:

https://wholesalesoftwareprovider.com/index.php?_a=viewCat&catId=2

Unquestionably, this is NOT legit.  They're selling MSDN generated keys which will work at first but then will be blacklisted by Microsoft.  I discovered this the hard way (not this particular site).  Last year I built a new system for my parents and bought a copy of Win7 Home Premium on eBay (for much more than $20, but still a little less than I could have gotten it on Newegg).  When I got the package, it was Win7 Ultimate instead, with a note included reading "out of stock...free upgrade!".  I didn't think anything of it, and the installation and activation went fine.  Fast-forward about 7 months (to about a month ago) and my mom told me that she was getting popups saying that Windows wasn't genuine.  Turns out, the factory sealed VERY real-looking package I received was, in fact, counterfeit.  There are websites and YouTube videos all over the place showing the difference between the genuine and counterfeit.

[Colin Liston]

^^ Sorry for the brief highjack but thanks for the info on that site.  Knew it had to be too good to be true.

[JasonSobel]

question about some motherboards.

this one, for example:
MSI Z68A-GD55 (B3) LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130606

in the details, it says that it does not have an Onboard Video Chipset.
Based on that, I'm thinking that I need a seperate graphics card.
BUT, under the connections, it has plenty of options to hook up a monitor.  It has a d-sub, DVI, and HDMI outputs.

So how does that work?  do I need a seperate graphics card?  Can I use the connectors from motherboard without a seperate graphics card? (in my case, my LCD monitor is pretty old, so I'd probably just use the d-sub vga connector).  and if I can use the connectors from the motherboard with a seperate graphics card, why does it say that it does NOT has an onboard video chipset?

thanks.

edit:
I think I got it figured out.
The MSI website for that motherboard says:

MSI Reminds You...
HDMI, DVI-D & Graphics Card ports can only work with CPUs with GPUs core inside.

ok, so that makes some sense.  the ports are there, if the CPU I select supports it.
On the intel website, the core i5-2300 (linked to above) has a check mark under "Intel HD Graphics".
Actually, all the i5 chips have "Intel HD Graphics".  I assume that this means that if I go with any core i5 CPU, it has graphics support, and I will therefore be able to use the video outs from the motherboard, and that I will therefore NOT need a seperate graphics card.

is that correct?

[Gordon]

ok, so that makes some sense.  the ports are there, if the CPU I select supports it.
On the intel website, the core i5-2300 (linked to above) has a check mark under "Intel HD Graphics".
Actually, all the i5 chips have "Intel HD Graphics".  I assume that this means that if I go with any core i5 CPU, it has graphics support, and I will therefore be able to use the video outs from the motherboard, and that I will therefore NOT need a seperate graphics card.

is that correct?

yes.

[rastasean]

If you do get a video card, perhaps you could do a little bit of bit coin mining...
http://www.weusecoins.com/

[JasonSobel]

thanks for everyone's help.  I made my purchase last night.  I ended up going over budget ($830 total), because I ultimately decided to go with a core i7-2600, instead of the core i5.  I figure that with the extra speed, it'll go a little longer before I feel the need to upgrade again.

I'll be putting it together next week.  hopefully I'll be able to figure it all out

thanks again,
Jason

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

Sweet.

I usually go with the top CPU right before the price make a huge jump. Obviously it would be nice to go hog wild, but I feel the same way. Might as well build the best machine you can so it lasts a little longer.

[morst]

thanks for everyone's help.  I made my purchase last night.  I ended up going over budget ($830 total), because I ultimately decided to go with a core i7-2600, instead of the core i5.  I figure that with the extra speed, it'll go a little longer before I feel the need to upgrade again.

Congrats, The builds I'm looking at lately seem to be right around $800 without monitor-mouse-keyboard. If you picked the right gear, this box will boot macintosh, if you want! The i7 is definitely compatible.

[JasonSobel]

I got the new computer built yesterday, and got it up and running.
Windows 7 64 bit is loaded and everything is running smoothly.

but I still have a couple of minor hiccups to work out.

(1) there are two USB 2.0 ports on the front.  I connected all the cables from the case to the motherboard.  One of the front ports works, the other doesn't.  maybe something is loose on the inside?  any other thoughts?

(2) the case has a front firewire port, but the motherboard doesn't have any firewire.  I left the plug to the front firewire loose on the inside - I assume it's fine to leave it like that?

(3) I don't think the hard drive LED is working on the front of the case.  it doesn't matter much to me, because the hard drive (and everything else) is functioning just fine.  Again, maybe just a loose connection on the inside?  any other thoughts?


thanks again for everyone's help.

- Jason

[OFOTD]

1. Make sure the plug connectors are facing the correct way on the mobo pins.   Easy to get on backwards because they are usually so damn small.   

2. No problem.   Its not a live wire so it can hang all it wants and won't cause any harm.

3. See #1.   Again make sure you have the LED plug connector attach to the correct mobo pins.


Also congrats on the Core i7.  Best choice you made bar none.

[rjp]

(3) I don't think the hard drive LED is working on the front of the case.  it doesn't matter much to me, because the hard drive (and everything else) is functioning just fine.  Again, maybe just a loose connection on the inside?  any other thoughts?

In addition to the possibility that the LED connector is seated on the wrong pins, it's also possible that the connector is plugged in backwards - if the polarity is wrong, the LED won't light.

[rePat]

Besides the physical connection, you might check for settings in the Bios, to see if those USB ports can be turned off and on.

My .02

Pat