Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Battery Boxes, Preamps, Mixers, ADCs, and Processors => Topic started by: George on April 02, 2004, 05:58:17 PM
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Yep, got the sound pro at853 phantom powered mics back, sweeet looking, the mic caps are much smaller than the original at853 mics. So, i also got the Samson power adapters so the XLR (males) are full sized. So here i go:
First question: Is there a preamp out there that has inputs for both full sized XLR and mini XLR? If not...no biggie, but it would be cool so i could avoid the power adapters for the ultimate in stealthing.
Second question: I got some rec's for preamps in another thread (like the Beyer MV100), but that sucker is out of my price range. I want to get something around $300-$500 that of course, gives 48V phantom power, has a high filter pass (80Hz, 160Hz) and...well, i want the best bang for my buck ;)
Oh yeah: the sucker MUST be stealthable....nothing worse than trying to sneak in a preamp that weighs so much it pulls my pants down.
So, feel free to recommends preamp models that are currently available and please list url's as well! I want to avoid hunting for a preamp that's no loner in production (like the MP2). I'm new to preamps, so treat me as if i'm an idiot child, thanks! ;D
and no, don't try to sell me a $3000 preamp :o :P
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Here's a pic!
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Here's a pic!
gloco;
those look like the AT933 capsules, not the AT853.
marc
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Here's a pic!
gloco;
those look like the AT933 capsules, not the AT853.
marc
Hmmm, if thats the case, i aint complaining ;D
Serious though, i assume when they upgraded my mics from at853 they went with at933? Is this normal or do you think i should talk to someone at soundprofessionals and see if they fudged up? Now you have my curiousity piqued, i was wondering why the mics were much smaller than the at853's i had.
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or 943s. That would be a pretty big mix up. My understanding is all they do is lop off the mini plug and insert the mini XLRs. They don't change the bodies.
http://audio-technica.com/prodpro/profiles/ES943_C.html
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Big mixup? Maybe, but it'd be in your favor. If you can remove the cap, it's a 933. If it's a fixed cap, it's a 943. My guess is that you got the 933s.
Seems to me that your mod turned into an upgrade! Be happy! ;D
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even though you wanted to stay away from the mp-2, i'd say go with it, you can usually find one used and although they have been discontinued, SD still services them, and its a great pre, used it myself and has all the bells and whistles you want except for the mini xlr i/o
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Big mixup? Maybe, but it'd be in your favor. If you can remove the cap, it's a 933. If it's a fixed cap, it's a 943. My guess is that you got the 933s.
Seems to me that your mod turned into an upgrade! Be happy! ;D
LOL, i tried to unscrew the cap, it wouldnt budge, so i think they are the 943's. The only thing that bugged me (and i contacted soundpro about) was the fact that i lost out on my hyper cards for at853's :(
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Big mixup? Maybe, but it'd be in your favor. If you can remove the cap, it's a 933. If it's a fixed cap, it's a 943. My guess is that you got the 933s.
Seems to me that your mod turned into an upgrade! Be happy! ;D
LOL, i tried to unscrew the cap, it wouldnt budge, so i think they are the 943's. The only thing that bugged me (and i contacted soundpro about) was the fact that i lost out on my hyper cards for at853's :(
personally, i like the sound of the 853 capsules over the 933/943. the 853's response is a bit flatter (and fuller in the low end).
here are the response curves from AT.com
AT853 cardioid
(http://www.audio-technica.com/prodpro/frequency/AT853a.gif)
ES933 cardioid
(http://www.audio-technica.com/prodpro/frequency/ES_C.gif)
plus they kept your 853 hyper caps!! >:(
marc
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Big mixup? Maybe, but it'd be in your favor. If you can remove the cap, it's a 933. If it's a fixed cap, it's a 943. My guess is that you got the 933s.
Seems to me that your mod turned into an upgrade! Be happy! ;D
LOL, i tried to unscrew the cap, it wouldnt budge, so i think they are the 943's. The only thing that bugged me (and i contacted soundpro about) was the fact that i lost out on my hyper cards for at853's :(
personally, i like the sound of the 853 capsules over the 933/943. the 853's response is a bit flatter (and fuller in the low end).
here are the response curves from AT.com
AT853 cardioid
(http://www.audio-technica.com/prodpro/frequency/AT853a.gif)
ES933 cardioid
(http://www.audio-technica.com/prodpro/frequency/ES_C.gif)
plus they kept your 853 hyper caps!! >:(
marc
Yeah, they kept my bloody caps, which is annoying the crap out of me, those caps cost me $80, i want them back. Worse comes to worse, i'll have to sent these back and have them send me the correct modified at853's with my hyper cards.
Thanks for the graphs. I see clearly what you're talking about, i still like how darn small these at933/943 mics are...even more stealthable than the at853's.
So...back on topic! LOL...c'mon peeps, name some more preamps i should look at, the MP-2 sounds like a plan...but its hard to find ( i tried looking on here and ebay so far, no luck).
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Big mixup? Maybe, but it'd be in your favor. If you can remove the cap, it's a 933. If it's a fixed cap, it's a 943. My guess is that you got the 933s.
Seems to me that your mod turned into an upgrade! Be happy! ;D
LOL, i tried to unscrew the cap, it wouldnt budge, so i think they are the 943's. The only thing that bugged me (and i contacted soundpro about) was the fact that i lost out on my hyper cards for at853's :(
personally, i like the sound of the 853 capsules over the 933/943. the 853's response is a bit flatter (and fuller in the low end).
here are the response curves from AT.com
AT853 cardioid
(http://www.audio-technica.com/prodpro/frequency/AT853a.gif)
ES933 cardioid
(http://www.audio-technica.com/prodpro/frequency/ES_C.gif)
plus they kept your 853 hyper caps!! >:(
marc
Yeah, they kept my bloody caps, which is annoying the crap out of me, those caps cost me $80, i want them back. Worse comes to worse, i'll have to sent these back and have them send me the correct modified at853's with my hyper cards.
Thanks for the graphs. I see clearly what you're talking about, i still like how darn small these at933/943 mics are...even more stealthable than the at853's.
So...back on topic! LOL...c'mon peeps, name some more preamps i should look at, the MP-2 sounds like a plan...but its hard to find ( i tried looking on here and ebay so far, no luck).
i've got bias towards the MV-100 because i like mine alot. it's small enough for stealthing. runs on 2 9v batteries. very easy to use. it's very light in comparison to other preamps. outputs are RCA or stereo mini. LF cut (which i never use). 48v phantom power. 20-40-60dB gain settings. (i only use the 20dB setting).
here's a sample i put up few weeks ago:
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mkim/MP3/primus2004-03-10-sample.mp3
i was running my hypers this night.
if you could find a MP2 within your budget, great. you could probably pick up a used MV-100 for under $300.
marc
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Big mixup? Maybe, but it'd be in your favor. If you can remove the cap, it's a 933. If it's a fixed cap, it's a 943. My guess is that you got the 933s.
Seems to me that your mod turned into an upgrade! Be happy! ;D
LOL, i tried to unscrew the cap, it wouldnt budge, so i think they are the 943's. The only thing that bugged me (and i contacted soundpro about) was the fact that i lost out on my hyper cards for at853's :(
personally, i like the sound of the 853 capsules over the 933/943. the 853's response is a bit flatter (and fuller in the low end).
here are the response curves from AT.com
AT853 cardioid
(http://www.audio-technica.com/prodpro/frequency/AT853a.gif)
ES933 cardioid
(http://www.audio-technica.com/prodpro/frequency/ES_C.gif)
plus they kept your 853 hyper caps!! >:(
marc
Yeah, they kept my bloody caps, which is annoying the crap out of me, those caps cost me $80, i want them back. Worse comes to worse, i'll have to sent these back and have them send me the correct modified at853's with my hyper cards.
Thanks for the graphs. I see clearly what you're talking about, i still like how darn small these at933/943 mics are...even more stealthable than the at853's.
So...back on topic! LOL...c'mon peeps, name some more preamps i should look at, the MP-2 sounds like a plan...but its hard to find ( i tried looking on here and ebay so far, no luck).
i've got bias towards the MV-100 because i like mine alot. it's small enough for stealthing. runs on 2 9v batteries. very easy to use. it's very light in comparison to other preamps. outputs are RCA or stereo mini. LF cut (which i never use). 48v phantom power. 20-40-60dB gain settings. (i only use the 20dB setting).
here's a sample i put up few weeks ago:
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mkim/MP3/primus2004-03-10-sample.mp3
i was running my hypers this night.
if you could find a MP2 within your budget, great. you could probably pick up a used MV-100 for under $300.
marc
Coolm thanks for the mp3 link, sounds good! Say, when does the 7 pin cable come into play with the M1, one of the most confusing things for me has been whether or not all the preamps in my price range have a minijack ouput (so i would run to line in on the m1) and which preamps need a special cable to run to the 7 pin input. I'll surf around for a used MV100.
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george;
>>Say, when does the 7 pin cable come into play with the M1,
only if you want to use DIGITAL input/output of your DAT.
>>one of the most confusing things for me has been whether or not all the preamps in my price range have a minijack ouput (so i would run to line in on the m1) and which preamps need a special cable to run to the 7 pin input.
preamps output an analog signal. a preamp/A > D converter (like the V3, minime) can output either analog or digital.
unless you get an outboard A>D converter or a preamp/A>D combo, you don't need to use the 7pin.
depending on what type of analog output your future preamp has, all you need is a matching cable (XLR, RCA or mini) > ultimately terminating in a stereo mini. M1 takes a stereo mini line-in.
marc
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Say, when does the 7 pin cable come into play with the M1, one of the most confusing things for me has been whether or not all the preamps in my price range have a minijack ouput (so i would run to line in on the m1) and which preamps need a special cable to run to the 7 pin input. I'll surf around for a used MV100.
The 7-pin cable is for sending a digital signal to your M1, so the only time you'd need it is if you ran an outboard ADC. Check the Archival Info for more info on 7-pin cables proper and the differences between active and passive.
Search around for an MV100, it's a good option. I second the MP2 option as well. While discontinued, you should still be able to find one used. Also keep an eye out on EBay or other places (though you likely won't find many here) for the Shure FP24 or Sound Devices MixPre. The MixPre is damn near identical to the MP2 and the FP24 is simply a re-branded MixPre. Still another alternative is a Denecke PS-2 for phantom power + line transformers for ~20dB of fixed gain.
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go for the MP2, you should be able to find a used one in your price range, and imho it is probably the best pre option for you, based on size, powering, etc.
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Schweet! Thanks for the info guys!
Lee, thanks for the clarification, now i finally understand how an outboard adc works with a dat, like the M1. +T's all around (and one round of drinks is one me!) 8)
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one, I don't know of any preamps that provide power and utilize a mini-xlr connection.
two, even if such a thing existed, you couldn't use it because you still need those adapters to keep the preamp from frying the mics.
three, get you fucking mics and caps back, that's screwy!
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here's a mp2 for sale:
http://www.oade.com/Tapers_Section/Forum/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=793&mesg_id=793&page=
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$500 BWWWWWWWWWWWWWHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!1!1!!!!!!!!11!!11
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Damnit, it appears that many peole who own preamps that you guys suggest ask for some insane price, lol. Although, a ts member did get me in contact with someone selling a MV100 for $275 and i'm waiting back from the seller to purchase it.
Sucks that their isn't any way possible to run these mics with a preamp that supports mini-XLR...
and yeah, i sures hell will get my hyper cards back, i'm a little ticked that they did a full swap without checking with me first. I sent them an email Friday night, i'll keep ya posted on what i hear back from soundpro on Monday, i'm sure they'll rectify the problem, they seem to have first-rate customer support (at least based on how quick they have responded to all my email inquiries re: modding my at853's).
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i have a feeling he'll come down in price on the mp2. since they've been selling for $375-400 lately. i'd email him and let him know the price of recent mp2's and see if u can get him down. i paid $500 for mine a little over a year ago and that was a good price back then....crazy how fast prices drop!
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Due to your avatar, i took your advice and emailed him :P
+t mate ;)
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Ok, I have a few questions.
I understand the whole modding of the sp cmc4's to have xlr ends. But to run a phantom device such as the PS2, I would have to also add into the line two of these samsung adapters? So the end result woul;d be SP cmc4>samsung adapter>PS2>AD20??? Would this be correct?
Can anyone recommend (through personal experience) any smaller phantom devices than the PS2?
I am asking because the last time I ran these mics it was run as
CMC4's>Batt(bass rolloff) box>Ad20>D8 I didn't use the rolloff at all, just as a power supply because i read somewhere that using this device will allow for running in higher SPL situations than without. The show that I taped was a REALLY loud metal show, and while the majority of it came out really really nice, there are points of saturation where I believe MR. Soundguy was tweaking knobs in the bottom end.
The gain on the AD20 was set all the way down and my levels on the D8 were peaking and after looking at the wav's in SF 4.5 there was definite clipping.
i don't like the idea of rolling off the bass, because it is such a vital part of most of the bands I tape, and while it sounds super hot live it has saturated the mics in the past.
Do I run it as is and play with the rolloff? Silly question really cuz I am going to play with it. But would the potential 13 db gain for higher SPL situations be worth it? The tape sounds as if I had just a weee bit more room in the mics there wouldn't have been any clipping, so I'm thinking that if I mod my mics and go with the phantom power I'll be able to pull that bowel rattling bass response that is readilly apparent through most of this tape in question.
Any thoughts?
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Ok, I have a few questions.
I understand the whole modding of the sp cmc4's to have xlr ends. But to run a phantom device such as the PS2, I would have to also add into the line two of these samsung adapters? So the end result woul;d be SP cmc4>samsung adapter>PS2>AD20??? Would this be correct?
Can anyone recommend (through personal experience) any smaller phantom devices than the PS2?
I am asking because the last time I ran these mics it was run as
CMC4's>Batt(bass rolloff) box>Ad20>D8 I didn't use the rolloff at all, just as a power supply because i read somewhere that using this device will allow for running in higher SPL situations than without. The show that I taped was a REALLY loud metal show, and while the majority of it came out really really nice, there are points of saturation where I believe MR. Soundguy was tweaking knobs in the bottom end.
The gain on the AD20 was set all the way down and my levels on the D8 were peaking and after looking at the wav's in SF 4.5 there was definite clipping.
i don't like the idea of rolling off the bass, because it is such a vital part of most of the bands I tape, and while it sounds super hot live it has saturated the mics in the past.
Do I run it as is and play with the rolloff? Silly question really cuz I am going to play with it. But would the potential 13 db gain for higher SPL situations be worth it? The tape sounds as if I had just a weee bit more room in the mics there wouldn't have been any clipping, so I'm thinking that if I mod my mics and go with the phantom power I'll be able to pull that bowel rattling bass response that is readilly apparent through most of this tape in question.
Any thoughts?
AFIK the PS-2 is about as small as it gets for stereo phantom boxes. It's a good reliable unit though. Lightweight and has a belt clip too.
I've hit the same high level issue you have with my 933s > SP BB > AD-20. My battery box has adjustable gain, so I put the gain sliders at about 1/3 and that gave me more room with the AD-20 gain to make adjustments. But if you don't have a BB with adjustable gain then you don't have that option.
Also, I don't think the bass roll off does anything unless you are connected to a mic in. Now I'm not sure what happens for roll off with the AD-20 in the mix. But what you describe sounds more like clipping due to high spl rather than too much bass anyway. An attenuator cable between the BB and AD-20 might do the trick too.
Matt (recently ordered the parts to do this to my AT933s too!)
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the mic2496 from www.core-sound.com is a mic pre with mini-xlr inputs and 24/96 AD capabilities. little pricey, I wanna hear that sample in the ask the tapers forum...
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the mic2496 from www.core-sound.com is a mic pre with mini-xlr inputs and 24/96 AD capabilities. little pricey, I wanna hear that sample in the ask the tapers forum...
Oh wow...well shit, i'm curious too now. I just bought a MV-100 but i'm always interested in some new
gadgetry. Anyone try this puppy yet?
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come on, I know someone wants to participate in len-bashing
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quick update, i was contacted by soundpro and they offered to sell me the at943's for $239 and upgrade my at853's to mini xlr for free. So i guess this is working out aight, it'll be cool to have two mics, so i can use the at853's and the at943's, was thinking of keeping my at853's terminated to the miniplug but after my Neil Young fiasco, i think i'll let them upgrade them.
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why do you want 2 pair?
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Why not? ;D
Seriously, the at943's are locked cards, so changing the elements is out of the question. The at853's have three pairs of elements. Its mostly to fudge around with both mics for and literally have a backup pair in case one of them go on the fritz.
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Why not? ;D
Seriously, the at943's are locked cards, so changing the elements is out of the question. The at853's have three pairs of elements. Its mostly to fudge around with both mics for and literally have a backup pair in case one of them go on the fritz.
g;
personally, i'd put that extra $260 towards some larger mics for open taping, perhaps some mid level akg's or larger AT's. the at853 w/ exchangeable caps are versatile and also great stealth mics. hope you'll like how they perform with phantom and with the mv-100.
marc
ps. did you recieve the power cable i sent ya?
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Hey marc, yep i got the cable. Check your pm.
As for buying a larger mic, i rarely open tape, i think dmb is the only band infact that i will open tape this year. I tend to go to shows where i gotta stealth. I was actually thinking of running two rigs at the dmb show, one for my dat and one with my nomad. It would be pretty interesting to do a comparison between the two mics. Eventually if i get bored (or find no use for the at943's) i'll sell them off. Thanks for the comments guys. I got a MV-100 coming in so my new rig will be complete...for now. :D
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imo the money can definitely be better spent than an investment in a second pair of mics, but I don't have ANY mics right now so I could be biased
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imo the money can definitely be better spent than an investment in a second pair of mics, but I don't have ANY mics right now so I could be biased
LOL. Well, i was thinking about what else i could invest to make my rig "better." There's not much in regards to keeping it stealth. I would prefer as few boxes as possible. Eh, like i said, if i ever get bored with either mic, it'll find its way onto the yard sale forum.
You dont have any mics? :( Say, do you need a stealth mic? ;D
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i have a sweet stereo sony mic ;D ::)
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i have a sweet stereo sony mic ;D ::)
LOL! Dude, i got myself a MV-100 and it appears that i can plug in two pairs of mics....think this would work well? I'm curious to try this for a dmb show i'll attend in the Summer.
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i have a sweet stereo sony mic ;D ::)
LOL! Dude, i got myself a MV-100 and it appears that i can plug in two pairs of mics....think this would work well? I'm curious to try this for a dmb show i'll attend in the Summer.
george;
no. only one mic input. but you got 2 outputs: RCA or stereo mini.
marc
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i have a sweet stereo sony mic ;D ::)
LOL! Dude, i got myself a MV-100 and it appears that i can plug in two pairs of mics....think this would work well? I'm curious to try this for a dmb show i'll attend in the Summer.
george;
no. only one mic input. but you got 2 outputs: RCA or stereo mini.
marc
Darn!
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Doesnt anyone tape with shitty mic's, and a MiniDisc anymore?
wait, that's meeeeeeee!!!
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yeah dude, get it together ;)