Topic: Deleting encore crowd noise and cross-fading

[vanark]

I don't know why I haven't been doing this for the last 10 years...  In the past, I've used two different techniques - track the encore crowd noise as a separate track or leave it on the tail end of the last song prior to the encore.   Recently, I started deleting it altogether and crossfading the encore into the rest of the set during the small amount of crowd noise I leave.  It is surprisingly simple and results in a show that flows better - who needs the crowd noise?

Here is what I do (using Wavelab 6):

1.  Start about 10 seconds prior to when the encore tracks start - usually there is some tuning/chatter, etc.  I include that.  I copy from that point to the end (to the clipboard).
2.  About 10 seconds after the end of the main set, delete from there to the end of the show.  (I have the encore music tracks in my clipboard.)
3.  Highlight about the last 5 seconds of the main set, select Crossfade from the Process menu.  I use the default values and Paste.

Results in about 10-15 seconds of crowd noise and the crossfades sounds seemless as it is down during the crowd, not any music.  It takes about 30 seconds to do and I'm amazed I haven't done it until recently.

[Gordon]

back when we worried about disc number/space etc I would do this.  now I just leave it on the end of the last track.  unless it's like 5 + mins between song and encore.

[vanark]

Definitely not worried about disc space.  I'm thinking more along the lines that the recordings are loaded into some portable device and preferring not to have either a long tail of crowd noise or a separate crowd track on shuffle.

[nulldogmas]

It is surprisingly simple and results in a show that flows better - who needs the crowd noise?

I hear Neil Young's next Archives project is going to be a 4-disc set of nothing but crowd noise.

[yousef]

It's been a while since I did it but iirc if you open your file in as a Wavelab montage, you can just split and cut out the dead time and then drag the encore to the left so that it overlaps the end of the main set and it will automatically do the crossfade.

Same result but seems more intuitive to me, especially if you'll be using the montage function to do volume envelopes etc.

[Gordon]

that's how I do it (with the montage).

[vanark]

Well, I'll try the montage next time.  Easier is better for me. 

[Marshall7]

Personally I always track the crowd encore call as a separate track, and I always leave it because otherwise (IMO anyhow) without it you don't have the full concert experience.   

[adrianf74]

This is one thing that everybody has an opinion on.  When I first started doing this, I always trimmed down the encore break to about 2 or 3 minutes and left it at the tail of the previous track.

Now that fewer people burn physical media, I usually leave it up to 5 minute but will shorten it if there was an "issue" during that time or if it goes beyond the five minute mark (who needs 5 minutes+ of crowd).  I still leave it as part of the last track of the set.

[colinw]

Personally I always track the crowd encore call as a separate track, and I always leave it because otherwise (IMO anyhow) without it you don't have the full concert experience.

Agreed, I just leave it intact to the whole concert is included start to finish. In the encore breaks I have captured some hilarious crowd banter which often brings a smile to my face and reminds me of the shows I was attending.

It is easy enough to skip over if people don't want to listen to it.

[Gordon]

I don't understand tracking it separate.  if you leave it at the end of the last track you can skip ahead and not hear it.  doesn't have to be it's own track to not be heard.  also I'm a big fan of shuffle or random play on my squeezebox and hate having to set up filters so I don't get just a track of crowd.

[mountaintaper]

I don't understand tracking it separate.  if you leave it at the end of the last track you can skip ahead and not hear it.  doesn't have to be it's own track to not be heard.  also I'm a big fan of shuffle or random play on my squeezebox and hate having to set up filters so I don't get just a track of crowd.

If you make it it's own track, you or people down the line can cut it out completely on a listening copy.

[cd2go]

Personally I always track the crowd encore call as a separate track, and I always leave it because otherwise (IMO anyhow) without it you don't have the full concert experience.

Agreed, I just leave it intact to the whole concert is included start to finish. In the encore breaks I have captured some hilarious crowd banter which often brings a smile to my face and reminds me of the shows I was attending.

It is easy enough to skip over if people don't want to listen to it.

^^my vote^^

[rastasean]

I don't understand tracking it separate.  if you leave it at the end of the last track you can skip ahead and not hear it.  doesn't have to be it's own track to not be heard.  also I'm a big fan of shuffle or random play on my squeezebox and hate having to set up filters so I don't get just a track of crowd.

If you make it it's own track, you or people down the line can cut it out completely on a listening copy.

Great point. Plus if it's tracked separately, you can make a montage of various crowd noises from all kinds of shows and have a trivia game: match the crowd to the band.

[yousef]

Great point. Plus if it's tracked separately, you can make a montage of various crowd noises from all kinds of shows and have a trivia game: match the crowd to the band.

You're a genius.

This is the sort of madness I come here for 

[capnhook]

It is surprisingly simple and results in a show that flows better - who needs the crowd noise?

I hear Neil Young's next Archives project is going to be a 4-disc set of nothing but crowd noise.

It's not a montage, it's all one song..

[cashandkerouac]

Personally I always track the crowd encore call as a separate track, and I always leave it because otherwise (IMO anyhow) without it you don't have the full concert experience.

Agreed, I just leave it intact to the whole concert is included start to finish. In the encore breaks I have captured some hilarious crowd banter which often brings a smile to my face and reminds me of the shows I was attending.

It is easy enough to skip over if people don't want to listen to it.

^^my vote^^

^^ me too ^^ ...but it depends on the show.  sometimes the crowd noise during the encore break is not good listening (i.e. extremely loud whistling and/or clapping that is just abrassive on the ear) so i chop it out altogether and just fade from the last song of the set into the encore.  i've also tracked the encore break separately, but more often just leave whatever portion of the encore break that sounds good and keep it attached to the last track of the main set.  i think it just comes down to preference.  there's no wrong answer in my opinion.  as long as all the music is there that's all i really care about. 

[vanark]

Well, I'll try the montage next time.  Easier is better for me. 

Okay, so I guess someone needs to explain how I get the track saved out of the montage.  It works as described (crossfading after the deleted portion removed), but now the montage sees it as three clips and I can't see how to get a new version of the WAV file saved.

[ScoobieKW]

Great point. Plus if it's tracked separately, you can make a montage of various crowd noises from all kinds of shows and have a trivia game: match the crowd to the band.

You're a genius.

This is the sort of madness I come here for 

 

[vanark]

Thanks for the info, Jon.  I'll give it a shot on the next show I master.  I used my original technique on today's show.

It seems to me that I still have to figure out how best to utilize montage for editing.  It didn't make much sense to me today and I ended up editing (fades, levels) the show in Wavelab as I normally do.

[yousef]

I'm not in front of a PC with Wavelab on it at the moment but I think all you need to do is click "render as" or "export as" from (I think) the File menu.

I never had to put any track or CD markers in, unless I was actually preparing an audio CD/DVD.

[vanark]

The markers are created by Wavelab when I delete the encore crowd noise.  If I do a render as, I doesn't do all the clips, just one of them.  As Jon said, I think I need to delete the markers.

[ilduclo]

thanks for the method, I'll try it a little more, myself. There's a recent show on LMA of Acid Mother Temple that has major crowd noise issues. I might try to do it to that one, since the band was playing really well, but the taper did like no edits at all

[yousef]

The markers are created by Wavelab when I delete the encore crowd noise.  If I do a render as, I doesn't do all the clips, just one of them.  As Jon said, I think I need to delete the markers.

Weird, I don't remember having to do that but perhaps things differ in different versions of WL. Or maybe there are some preferences I changed at some point. I'll have to dig out my old laptop and revisit my workflow.

[vanark]

Personally I always track the crowd encore call as a separate track, and I always leave it because otherwise (IMO anyhow) without it you don't have the full concert experience.

Agreed, I just leave it intact to the whole concert is included start to finish. In the encore breaks I have captured some hilarious crowd banter which often brings a smile to my face and reminds me of the shows I was attending.

It is easy enough to skip over if people don't want to listen to it.

^^my vote^^

I was thinking about this comment recently and not sure I agree with the "you don't have the full concert experience" comment.  If you really believe this, you should leave the recording running during the 30-45 min. set break and include that, too.  Sorry, but it doesn't hold water that the 5 minute encore break is essential to the "full concert experience."   I don't recall seeing a single recording where someone included the set break.

[Marshall7]

Why would you think set break was part of the concert?  If you're going to think that you might as well start recording the minute you leave home.  Or maybe the minute you buy the ticket. 

I don't think anyone (well, maybe other than you) would disagree that the encore break was part of the concert.

[badronald]

I always keep the encore break.  I also keep the after show "walk to the car" part for my own OCD reasons.    You catch a lot of comments from people about the show or just random stuff.