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Author Topic: Final Cut Express question... cutting a large file in half  (Read 2938 times)

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Offline brianp

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Final Cut Express question... cutting a large file in half
« on: March 16, 2005, 08:23:53 PM »
Does anybody know how to take a video file in Final Cut Express and cut it into two files? I have a video project Im working on and it's 1hr. 27min. I'd like to cut it at the halfway point and throw it on two dvds. I have all edits finished, chapter markers in place and now I can't figure out how to cut it into two files. Ive checked all through the manual and there is nothing in there that refers to this. I guess I could draw a guide, use the razor tool, select, and delete, but that seems like a crude way of doing it. Plus I have a separate source (audience mics) for the audio synched with the video track and Im not sure how to keep the two together when doing this.

any ideas or suggestions? This is only my second video project and I'm still pretty new to all this.
thanks,
Brian
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Offline hyperplane

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Re: Final Cut Express question... cutting a large file in half
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2005, 02:23:00 PM »
i haven't used Final Cut. (sorry, only using Premiere Pro here.) but the process may be similar, as i've talked a lot to people who use both and they say the two programs are very similar. so, this info may or may not help you...

i did this recently in Premiere. edited a 93 minute video (multiple cam sources, multiple audio sources). once finished with editing, i clicked on File > Save As... and saved the project with a new name, e.g. "Video Mix 1 of 2." then i deleted all Timeline markers, and inserted only ONE new Timeline marker roughly halfway through the video. then clicked on File > Save. then, i clicked on File > Save As... and saved a duplicate of the project, but with a different name "Video Mix 2 of 2."

now, go back to project titled "Video Mix 1 of 2." simply grab the end of Video Track 2 and drag its END point back to the marker on the Timeline. repeat the same for other video tracks and audio tracks. (took me about 30 seconds to drag 3 video sources and 2 audio sources all to the Timeline marker, thus cutting out the second half of the video.)

then go to project titled "Video Mix 2 of 2" and do the opposite - drag the IN point audio and video sources forward to the Timeline marker. (again, only took about 30 more seconds.) then i used what Premiere calls the "Ripple Delete" tool - you click an empty space between the beginning to the Timeline and where the actual video is supposed to start (for me, it was about 47 minutes later, since i 'erased' the sources going on DVD #1), then you click the SHIFT + DEL keys. all the empty space from the beginning of the Timeline to the video sources is deleted, and all the video/audio stays in its proper position with respect to the other audio/video tracks.

of course, looking back, there was an easier way for splitting up the video into 2 projects... i could have just positioned the Work Area Bar from the beginning of the Timeline to the point where i wanted part 1 to end, and then gone to File > Export Timeline > and set it to render/export only the Work Area Bar. then just changed the position of the Work Area Bar on the Timeline for part 2, and rendered/exported. but, live and learn.

Offline brianp

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Re: Final Cut Express question... cutting a large file in half
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2005, 03:51:24 PM »
good idea. Premiere is really similar to Final Cut actually. I dont know why I didnt think of doing a save as, and do what youre saying. Makes sense and will work perfectly I think.

Brian
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Offline hyperplane

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Re: Final Cut Express question... cutting a large file in half
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2005, 04:20:14 AM »
excellent! i hope it helps you out in your situation.  :)

Offline dklein

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Re: Final Cut Express question... cutting a large file in half
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2005, 11:02:07 AM »
Not really an answer but if you only have an hour and a half, have you considered 1 dvd?  You can fit a 5k video bitrate and LPCM audio onto 1 dvd.  I just did one of these 90 minute projects and the video looks great.  I have a feeling concert video isn't that hard on the compression scheme since so much of the footage is black and doesn't have high motion.

If you do split the file, consider the format you're using for a 'save as'.  If you choose a dv codec, any portion of the video that has been edited or color corrected etc. will be recompressed a 2nd time (even DV is lossy).  If you can go direct to mpeg2 you might save your self one extra compression step.
KM 184 > V2 > R4
older recording gear: UA-5  / emagic A62 / laptop / JB3 / CSB / AD20 / Sharp MT-90 / Sony MDS-JE510
Playback: Pioneer DV-578 > Lucid DA 9624 >many funny little british boxes > Linn Isobarik PMS

Offline hyperplane

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Re: Final Cut Express question... cutting a large file in half
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2005, 05:17:30 AM »
good points, dklein.

i just did a 93 minute DVD, and because of all the extra material on the disc, i had to go with AC3 audio. the intro sequence + the motion menus ate up the space like a madman. but i've still got the project files on my HD so i may re-do it with basic still backgrounds and keep the audio in PCM.

now, as for DV being lossy, this is true. but you do know that you can do many, many exports/compresses with DV footage before quality loss is noticeable, right?

however, 99% of the time, i export directly to MPEG-2 (to save a compression stage, and because it's *usually* quicker). when only a few minor edits are needed, i love going Premiere > FrameServer > CCE. it's a HUGE time saver, usually (unless there's a massive amount of editing) and i can get a good MPEG-2 encoding in what amounts to real time (or 2x real time, e.g. 2 hours to encode 1 hour of footage) with respect to the length of the footage i'm encoding.

i had to re-export to DV on this recent project, though, as there was so much editing done (multi-cam source) that i could have either let the video encode from Premiere directly to MPEG-2 for a good 30+ hours, or do what i did and export to DV and then encode (which took *considerably* less time).

Offline dklein

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Re: Final Cut Express question... cutting a large file in half
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2005, 02:39:15 PM »
h_vargas - glad to see a little video geekin' going on.  I find some of the forums at doom9 a bit intimidating.  I've been spending some time looking into all the dv codecs and it appears that there are some issues with multiple generations, depending on which codec is in use.  I haven't experienced it myself since I'm not doing miultiple saves.  Personally, I'm having trouble with the whole YUY2 conversion and colorspace errors.  Trying to figure out wtf to use.  I'm definitely seeing some red bleeding that I'd like to clean up but those discussions make my head spin. e.g. http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58110

It jumped out at me when I used virtual dub/deshaker on a segment and looked totally different when I threw it back in the timeline on Vegas.  I tracked that down to the edit using 0-255 values instead of 16-235.  But it did get me thinking that I really don't know what's going in there.

I'm learning Vegas right now.  Definitely a lot more powerful than the Ulead thing I started on.  Maybe I should look at Premiere?

I'd also like to try something different for authoring - using tmpg DVD author but there are a few things I can't seem to do (like using a still on the menu but getting sound - currently I have to take the still and make it an video file just to get the motion menu going).  Maybe DVD Architect?  Any recommendations?  I've got DVD Maestro but don't even know where to begin.  Might be too much for me.
KM 184 > V2 > R4
older recording gear: UA-5  / emagic A62 / laptop / JB3 / CSB / AD20 / Sharp MT-90 / Sony MDS-JE510
Playback: Pioneer DV-578 > Lucid DA 9624 >many funny little british boxes > Linn Isobarik PMS

Offline dklein

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Re: Final Cut Express question... cutting a large file in half
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2005, 02:42:51 PM »
oh yeah - I've also done some frameserving to CCE.  It is fast but not too much faster than the MainConcept MPEG2 encoder built into vegas and I can't distinguish the quality.  Video make audio look so easy!  ???
KM 184 > V2 > R4
older recording gear: UA-5  / emagic A62 / laptop / JB3 / CSB / AD20 / Sharp MT-90 / Sony MDS-JE510
Playback: Pioneer DV-578 > Lucid DA 9624 >many funny little british boxes > Linn Isobarik PMS

Offline hyperplane

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Re: Final Cut Express question... cutting a large file in half
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2005, 02:25:06 AM »
thanks for the props, dklein.

i'm all about the video geekin'.  8)   been fascinated by it ever since VCD mpgs became popular online, and went from learning all those programs to some of the more complex DVD-related programs out now. (haven't started with Scenarist yet, but i have DVDMaestro down very welll, and most people are really impressed with the stuff i pull off using it.)

i never really used VirtualDub that much, except to extract WAV files from AVI files, in the past... until this year. because i do most editing in Premiere (which needs Type 2 DV .AVI files, as opposed to Type 1), i downloaded the Panasonic DV codec so i could check out VirtualDub. (mostly because i was considering deinterlacing some footage for a DVD project.) BIG mistake. simply put, the Panasonic DV codec sucks a fat one. my source was extremely clean (read: NO grain, only clear crisp picture), and after using VirtualDub with the Panasonic DV codec, the exported AVI files had friggin vertical lines. and not small ones either. probably 12 or so of them starting from the left side of the picture all the way to the right side.

i did a triple take when i watched the test MPEG-2/DVD on my TV, and started wigging out. i pulled out the DV masters and popped them in - looked perfectly fine. went back on the computer, did an MPEG-2 encoding of an original captured DV .AVI, looked excellent... no vertical lines. so then i did some googling about the panasonic dv codec, and got some hits. apparently i'm not the only person who encountered this problem.

but in my searching and reading about the panasonic dv codec, i read up on others as well. read an excellent review with screen caps on multiple codecs and the reviewer showed how the Canopus dv codec rocks the cazbah. unfortunately, Canopus dv codec is generally only available if you get an expensive piece of hardware by them... unless you snag ProCoder 2. :)

i grabbed it, and i have to say, i may have to start using it (just to re-render the footage). i did a side-by-side test of encoded MPEG-2 video: captured DV. AVI file > MPEG-2 vs. re-rendered with the Canopus dv codec > MPEG-2. the Canopus blew away the straight up video... absolutely brilliant colors (made the original capture look bland, halfway desaturated, and very dull). also, the blacks are nice and rich just as it is on DV-shot footage. (ever watch a DV tape directly on TV vs. a DVD made from the same DV source? the DVD will have duller blacks... it goes back tot he 16-235 colors thing you mentioned.)

i'd definitely say CCE is the way to go (FrameServing or not) for encoding. MainConcept is okay, but i read a detailed review with screen caps regarding ProCoder, TMPGEnc, CCE, and MainConcept. out of those 4, MainConcept was clearly the worst quality of all the encoders. granted, it's not expensive compared to the others (especially CCE or ProCoder), but i could not believe the difference in quality from the screen caps. FYI, ProCoder came in a very close 2nd and TMPGEnc was almost as good as ProCoder, IMO. but i'm not a big fan of TMPGEnc (the MPEG encoder) - it always ran freaking slow on my machines. and right now, CCE 2.70 (even without FrameServing) is a screaming beast for me. my machine will do a 6-pass encoding of 2 hours of footage, which gives me great quality encodes (NEVER a single bit of blocky pixelation or bluriness during fast-motion scenes) in 3 hours.

i could do the 2-pass encoding with MainConcept of the same 2 hours of footage in 1 hour, but i try to keep the quality... and more passes really helps a lot, especially if you're encoding something at bitrates lower than 6000-7000 or so.

sorry for rambling on and on. i don't know enough video geeks, obviously. ;-)

as far as DVD authoring software, DVDMaestro is excellent. a little more difficult to use than some other ones out there, but after getting used to Maestro, it's the main authoring software that i use now. unless i'm just doing a super quick DVD, in which case i sometimes use Ulead DVD Workshop.

i tried using DVD Architect before, but didn't care much for its layout, and it seemed like i had to do "double' menus to do what i wanted (i wanted to have a simple main menu that can go directly to a song selection menu, and i couldn't figure out how to do it in Architect without having to have a link to a menu in between the song selection and main menu, so i uninstalled it pronto).

i've also used Ulead DVD Workshop version 1.3, which is nice... it's mostly drag & drop style, literally. but it has nice features - you can drag & drop buttons (from their collection included with the program), or make the song titles text the buttons. it has a built-in AC3 encoder, which is nice when you need/want to go with AC3. and it has a very easy way of having a "first play" video, i.e. you can have the concert start right up when you pop in the DVD (and then you just can "cheat" and do a menu for the song selection only, hehe), or if you make a little "production" logo or "this is NOT for sale" warning screen or whatever... it's good for that (and can play a menu immediately following the first play video clip). the only real thing that bugged me about Ulead was this: when you're setting the chapter points, it generally always played the preview out of sync. so, i'd just make the chapter points based on the AUDIO source (i.e. 1 second or so before the music starts in a song). and that always worked.

i've read a lot of people swear by DVDLab (standard and/or pro). never used it, but supposedly it's good. i have read its features, and it seems like quite a bargain at the price. but again, never used it.

also, if you're comfotable with Vegas, i don't know necessarily that you should switch to Premiere. unless you just want to try it - and if you did try Premiere and liked it better than Vegas, more power to you. i've never used Vegas, but i know a lot of people like it... a lot.

anyway, PM/email me if you want to go into video more in-depth, or if you need help finding eval. versions of the software.

 

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