Topic: ideas to improve my taping gear / sound please

[trevtdogg]

Hey all,

I've been doing very amateur taping of gigs since about 2000, mostly with MD / HiMD / iriver H340 and a sony ecm-ms907.  Started off mostly stealthing other bands and my own demos at home, now mostly taping my bands shows for the LMA:

http://www.archive.org/details/Charm

but i've been meaning to update my setup for a while, and don't have as much time to research things as i used to.  so i'm looking for the quick easy answer from you all to help

only 1 show up there is a sbd, rest are the sony 907 mic going into either the iriver h340 or the sony mz-nh1.  i usually run the mic into the h340, and the use the nh1 for a sbd grab.  keep em both for future matrix mixes or whatever.  the mic is usually near the sound board, normally up high if i can and with the 120 degree selector on.  some shows i run it almost flat against a FOH stack in stead, or somewhere i think the guitar will carry and stand out as the sound guys normally keep the guitar too low in the mix for our taste!

listening to the recordings what would you suggest i do to improve the sound of the recordings?

i'm thinking of getting maybe the CA-14 omnis, and possibly upgrading to a sony pcm m-10.  if i went this way, would i need any other gear to either power the mics, or for gain, or for an adc if the on-board adc in the sony isn't that good?

last gig the h340 had a bit of skipping on the recording for the 1st time ever, bits of seconds went missing here and there over only about 30 secs of the recording, and i noticed when i pushed stop it was saying "warning"  something where the file name would be.

appreciate any suggestions and advice, cheers.

-trev.

[acidjack]

Very short and very easy answer is, replace that mic.  The rest of your gear is perfectly fine for what you want to do, though of course, your budget will inform how many and what upgrades you want.  The weakest piece of gear you have is that Sony single-point stereo mic, by far.  A basic set of $139 Church Audio mics will vastly improve your recordings; there are used mics in the Yard Sale for even less, like AT 853s as well as some Church mics, that could do the trick. But again, it depends what you want to spend. 

Assuming you record loud shows mostly, you'll just need a simple CA-UBB battery box ($39) to power the mics.  I think your thought of going CA-14 is a good one in your price range. 

The M-10 is a very nice deck, much better battery life than what you have, but it won't improve the sound of your recordings nearly as much as the change in mics. Any small deck that is functioning will probably work, but yes, the M10 is the best of the lot.  I just recorded an entire festival (16hrs music) plus a wilco show, plus a few other shows, and my batts are still showing 100% full.  The battery life is uh, amazing. 

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

new mics

[adrianf74]

Agreed.  New mics and a battery box if you don't have one lying around.  You could get a preamp but I'm gathering the shows you're going to are plenty loud enough.

The M10 is a good recorder but the mics/battery box will be the single greatest improvement in your chain.

[Church-Audio]

Hey all,

I've been doing very amateur taping of gigs since about 2000, mostly with MD / HiMD / iriver H340 and a sony ecm-ms907.  Started off mostly stealthing other bands and my own demos at home, now mostly taping my bands shows for the LMA:

http://www.archive.org/details/Charm

but i've been meaning to update my setup for a while, and don't have as much time to research things as i used to.  so i'm looking for the quick easy answer from you all to help

only 1 show up there is a sbd, rest are the sony 907 mic going into either the iriver h340 or the sony mz-nh1.  i usually run the mic into the h340, and the use the nh1 for a sbd grab.  keep em both for future matrix mixes or whatever.  the mic is usually near the sound board, normally up high if i can and with the 120 degree selector on.  some shows i run it almost flat against a FOH stack in stead, or somewhere i think the guitar will carry and stand out as the sound guys normally keep the guitar too low in the mix for our taste!

listening to the recordings what would you suggest i do to improve the sound of the recordings?

i'm thinking of getting maybe the CA-14 omnis, and possibly upgrading to a sony pcm m-10.  if i went this way, would i need any other gear to either power the mics, or for gain, or for an adc if the on-board adc in the sony isn't that good?

last gig the h340 had a bit of skipping on the recording for the 1st time ever, bits of seconds went missing here and there over only about 30 secs of the recording, and i noticed when i pushed stop it was saying "warning"  something where the file name would be.

appreciate any suggestions and advice, cheers.

-trev.

My omni mics are great for good sounding rooms and when you are close to the source. If you are always further away get my cards. I have a new package that includes my ca14 omni ca-14 card + a battery box for $189.99 the sony md recorder is very VERY good recorder you will not notice much improvement over the m10.

[trevtdogg]

thanks guys!  yeah don't have a battery box, always used the sony 907 mic with it's own aa battery so never needed one.

CA dude - is it much cheaper to get that pack with just the omni instead?  i know that sorta defeats the purpose of the pack and what you are suggesting, but i'm thinking if i get both i'll prob end up just using one 99% of the time (whichever i think will give the best sound, and from my limited research i'm thinking i'll like omnis better than cards) and leaving the other to waste in a drawer at home.

only reason i've been thinking of upgrading my recorder is for reliability - especially how the last show was the first time the h340 has skipped in a recording.  the nh1 has crap battery, and importing things with sonic stage is a real pain when you have to do it more than once a blue moon.

I'll keep using the h340 for now (rockboxed it has some awesome recording features like customisable pre-record time up to 60 secs) and hopefully it holds up and the skipping was a one off.

any other mic suggestions other than CA's or AT 853 that you guys think i should look at, or realistically is that about the best mic / $ deal i'm gonna get for my use?

[acidjack]

The CA's or AT853s are about the best mic you can get without jumping to either fullsize mics or 5x or more in price. 

I'd get the package.  Unless you always tape up close, you will want to have the cardiod mics handy.

[Fried Chicken Boy]

The Church package is the way to go and they're very good mics: two sets of CA-14's and a battery box for under $200 is a steal.  That's less than what I paid for a single set of my first decent taper's mics and a battery box.  Worst case scenario, if you find that you really don't use one of the sets you can always unload them to another taper.

[Ghost of sml42]

last gig the h340 had a bit of skipping on the recording for the 1st time ever, bits of seconds went missing here and there over only about 30 secs of the recording, and i noticed when i pushed stop it was saying "warning"  something where the file name would be.

this would give me cause for concern. if it were me, i would run it at home for a few hours in front of the hifi, see if it skips again. it could just be a glitch - goodness knows i've dealt with enough temperamental equipment over the years - or it could be a warning sign the deck is on its way out. if it misbehaves again i would replace the deck asap. the m10 you mention is a solid piece of gear - i'm very pleased with mine.

but apart from that, i agree upgrading your mics will give you the biggest improvement. no direct personal experience of the church audio mics, but there are plenty of ca-sourced recordings out there if you want to listen first.

[Belexes]

New mics as is stated above and always try and get the into the best sounding location in the room/venue.

My last ticket request: "please select for me a ticket 10 rows back from the stage dead center." 

[Church-Audio]

thanks guys!  yeah don't have a battery box, always used the sony 907 mic with it's own aa battery so never needed one.

CA dude - is it much cheaper to get that pack with just the omni instead?  i know that sorta defeats the purpose of the pack and what you are suggesting, but i'm thinking if i get both i'll prob end up just using one 99% of the time (whichever i think will give the best sound, and from my limited research i'm thinking i'll like omnis better than cards) and leaving the other to waste in a drawer at home.

only reason i've been thinking of upgrading my recorder is for reliability - especially how the last show was the first time the h340 has skipped in a recording.  the nh1 has crap battery, and importing things with sonic stage is a real pain when you have to do it more than once a blue moon.

I'll keep using the h340 for now (rockboxed it has some awesome recording features like customisable pre-record time up to 60 secs) and hopefully it holds up and the skipping was a one off.

any other mic suggestions other than CA's or AT 853 that you guys think i should look at, or realistically is that about the best mic / $ deal i'm gonna get for my use?

I would get this, Ca-14 card + ca-14 omni + battery box for $189.99 if you are going to get something this will work nicely especially with your MD.

Free shipping this month as well.

Chris AKA "CA DUDE" I like that lol

[newplanet7]

i know that sorta defeats the purpose of the pack and what you are suggesting, but i'm thinking if i get both i'll prob end up just using one 99% of the time (whichever i think will give the best sound, and from my limited research i'm thinking i'll like omnis better than cards) and leaving the other to waste in a drawer at home.

I'm not understanding all this talk with omnis being THE pattern around here lately.
They aren't something you will get great pulls with every time.
In the right situation, for sure, omnis will give you what you want. But get both because cards will be there
the other times where omnis aren't suitable, which is a ton.

[acidjack]

i know that sorta defeats the purpose of the pack and what you are suggesting, but i'm thinking if i get both i'll prob end up just using one 99% of the time (whichever i think will give the best sound, and from my limited research i'm thinking i'll like omnis better than cards) and leaving the other to waste in a drawer at home.

I'm not understanding all this talk with omnis being THE pattern around here lately.
They aren't something you will get great pulls with every time.
In the right situation, for sure, omnis will give you what you want. But get both because cards will be there
the other times where omnis aren't suitable, which is a ton.

Like many TS trends (LD mics, small mics, this brand, that brand) you're absolutely right that that claim deserves some serious scrutiny.  Even for outdoors, I'm not so convinced the current CW around here is absolutely right about it.

It is true, I think, that in the subminiature mic category, omnis tend to be better performing overall - in that they have a more normal frequency response - than small cardiods.  That doesn't change that in a bad room, in a non-optimum spot, you'd still be better off with the less-than-ideal subminiature cardiod.

[newplanet7]

Thanks brother. Thought I was losing it for second.
Making up numbers, I'd say 75% of the board here doesn't even own omnis. That speaks volumes IMHO.
Yet Most have a great set of cards. I just don't want new tapers to think omnis are it
and get discouraged when they use them in all the wrong situations and come home with a boomy, chatty turd.

[Church-Audio]

Thanks brother. Thought I was losing it for second.
Making up numbers, I'd say 75% of the board here doesn't even own omnis. That speaks volumes IMHO.
Yet Most have a great set of cards. I just don't want new tapers to think omnis are it
and get discouraged when they use them in all the wrong situations and come home with a boomy, chatty turd.

If I was actively taping and I am not ( too busy building gear these days ) I would have both omni and card with me at all times. And once you arrive at the venue make your decision then. Because unless its a venue you know well its hard to say that omni will work or Card will work. In some situations omni is the only way to go when you want real fidelity. In other situation the only hope you have of a good capture is a cardioid. Anyone that says use one or the other with out first being in the venue is blowing smoke up your ass and wasting your time. Every venue is different every situation is different. Its like fishing you would never go to a lake with one lure you would bring a tackle box. I would never do sound for a band with just one mic I would bring several and during the pre tour rehearsal I might have as many as 50 different mics to try out for different things.