Topic: Ready to enter taping world...but how?

[MLKLuke]

hi guys,
I really want to begin to tape some live shows next year (I already have tickets for oasis and depeche mode ) but the question (and I think not a "rare" question) is: which is the best quality/price rig I should buy?

I mean...I've not enough money for a pair of DPA 4061 or super mics or for a PCM-M1.

I was thinking about a JB3 or Arhcos Gmini 400 or Edirol R1 for the recorder...and maybe OKMII Rock + A3 for the mics. I've got to buy a rig that can allow me to tape quite well both in stadiums and arenas/indoor venues....do you think this could be a good choice or you suggest something else?

all hints and suggestions are welcome

thanks

Luca

[F.O.Bean]

http://taperssection.com/index.php?board=46.0

http://taperssection.com/index.php?board=14.0

[aberg]

I'm waiting for my R-1 to arrive, but I would say it's a pretty good choice.

I would suggest:

DPA 4061 > DPA MMA6000 > Edirol R-1

With that rig, you'd be golden!

[F.O.Bean]

get hypers if youre taping in many diff areas

[terrapinj]

many factors to take into consideration -

open or stealth taping (assuming depeche and oasis are stealth)?

how much money do you actually have to spend?

bean pointed you in the right direction but use the seach function also - this topic has been covered countless times. your best bet is to read as much as you can on this site, specifically in regards to the type of taping you will do and try to download some shows that used elements of the rig you are considering. no one can tell you what sounds "best" everyone has different ears and tapes different types of music here.

[MLKLuke]

thanks for your answers. well yes I'm trying to read the most possible topics in the various section but it's not so easy to put all that knowloedge together and take a decision, eheh! expecially for a "newbie". Of couse I'm interested in stealth taping, not open

anyway...my main doubt is between Edirol R1 and Archos Gmini 400 or similar HD/Cflash recorders

Archos is cheaper...it used his internal HD...R1 is more expensive and a 2GB Compact Flash is necassary...so about 150$ more

for the mics...for the moment I think I will start with something cheaper that DPA 4061 (maybe OKMIIr + A3 ore something like SP-CMC4 or AT831/853) and then maybe upgrade them to Danish Pro when I will have more money.

the problem is: is there a shop/seller in USA that ship to europe at good prices in case I will choose R1? cause here in europe Edirol R1 is really too expensive for me. I also condidered the idea of buying a JB3 that is maybe the best compromise between money and quality...isn't it?

at the end...I wanted to spend about 200/250 euros for mics+battery box and about 300/400 for Recorder (prices are just to give an idea)

[divamum]

What about (god, the PRESUMPTION of the n00b to be suggesting things!) a pair of Sound Pros CMC8s ($250) and a Microtrack ($399) or if the budget will stretch, the Edirol?  It's my understanding that both of those units have a built-in preamp and supply battery power for the mics as a mic-in socket, OR you could run line in with a battery box (any number to choose from).   You could then add a good external preamp if you want/need one at a later date when budget allows.

I believe Sound Pros will ship to Europe - the problem is VAT when new stuff comes in from the States.... you may want to check into the rules for your country regarding that (where are you?).  There are a few European-based tapers who read this site; maybe they can offer more info on that too.

HTH!

[Humbug]

Import duty, rather than VAT, but yes, Sound Pros will ship to Europe. You've maybe a 50:50 chance of not paying import duty on a US order. Depends how sharp customs are the day it comes in.

JB3s are cheap, if a little bulky (so is an R1), but suitable for stealth.

[sml42]

You've maybe a 50:50 chance of not paying import duty on a US order. Depends how sharp customs are the day it comes in.

I've had 4 orders for gear from the US (3 from sound professional and 1 from coresound). I've had to pay import duty on all 4 orders. Guess I was unlucky

[jpschust]

screw it dude.

dpa 4022s (you can get these in europe to avoid tax) > sonosax (you can get this in europe too) > deva V (think there might be a european distributor).

if the dpas arent your flavor try a pair of neumann u89s

[MLKLuke]

LOL! Deva V is a bit too large for stealth taping I think

anyway...now the situation is the following one:

RECORDER: I'm debated between JB3 (cheap but a bit too large) and Archos Gmini 400 (smaller than JB3)...are there any other reliable HD recorders out there apart from these ones?

MICS: I've to take a decision between SP-CMC-4 (AT853) and SP-CMC-8 (AT933/943) [+ battery box in any case]...I discarded OKMIIr option cause they are disturbed by cellular phones frequencies (I know a couple of tapers that had this damned problem) and nowadays there are thousands of persons using a cell at a concert! cmc-8 are more expensive but are really smaller than cmc-4...and this let me think that maybe is better to choose cmc-8(at933/943)

what do you think about that?

[prof_peabody]

I'm glad to see you've moved away from the OKMIIr.  In my experience you'd be better off with cardiod mics as opposed to binaural for large venue taping.  The OKMIIrs are good mics, but I am really surprized how many people use them to tape stadium shows in europe.  I can vouch for the SP mics you mentioned above.

+T

[MLKLuke]

how much would be the taxes from USA to europe(italy) if I buy SP-CMC-4 or 8 + SP-SPSB-6 from SoundPro site?

I've got to pay taxes also if I buy an used JB3 from a user of this forum in the yard sale?

[kuba]

how much would be the taxes from USA to europe(italy) if I buy SP-CMC-4 or 8 + SP-SPSB-6 from SoundPro site?

I've got to pay taxes also if I buy an used JB3 from a user of this forum in the yard sale?

I think redbook (Spain) is selling SP-CMC-4 (or AT853) phantom modded and he told me something about selling a JB3 as well. Search in "Yard Sale" or contact him.

[joolz]

how much would be the taxes from USA to europe(italy) if I buy SP-CMC-4 or 8 + SP-SPSB-6 from SoundPro site?

I've got to pay taxes also if I buy an used JB3 from a user of this forum in the yard sale?

buy the JB3 this side of europe, no import to worry about. You can get good refurbs or used JB3's on ebay for about £90, sometimes with the battery.

try and pick up your mics in the yard sale

 1. they will be slightly cheaper than from SP;

2. you may be able to ask the seller to put just $50/gift on the customs form, therefore you will pay no import duty. Alternatively if you have a good friend in the states they could buy them for you and send them to you labelled as a gift.

SP have over-insured a package and put it on the custom form on an order I made, so I once paid £30 import on a $20 cable

I usually expect about a 50% duty on packages from the states.

[MLKLuke]

yes I'm seriously considering to get JB3 in europe

the problem are the mics...the choice is: AT853 vs AT933/943 = SP-CMC-4 vs SP-CMC-8

933/943 are smaller...and maybe more "stealthing". I read that both mics set sounds pretty good for that price...and I've heard good recordings made with both of them

another thing I've not yet understood is the difference between cardioids and hyper-cardioids...is it possible to get hypers directly without paying additional costs?
 
what do you think about that?

PS redbook's AT853 are white...do you think it's a problem for stealthing taping? I've seen they're phantom modded...what does this mean? that I don't need the battery box or I still need it (for bass rolloff)?

[joolz]

yes I'm seriously considering to get JB3 in europe

the problem are the mics...the choice is: AT853 vs AT933/943 = SP-CMC-4 vs SP-CMC-8

933/943 are smaller...and maybe more "stealthing". I read that both mics set sounds pretty good for that price...and I've heard good recordings made with both of them

another thing I've not yet understood is the difference between cardioids and hyper-cardioids...is it possible to get hypers directly without paying additional costs?
 
what do you think about that?

PS redbook's AT853 are white...do you think it's a problem for stealthing taping? I've seen they're phantom modded...what does this mean? that I don't need the battery box or I still need it (for bass rolloff)?

The phantom mod enables you to use a 48V power source which will improve the quality apparently. Using a low voltage BB can cause brickwalling at very high SPL's for AT mics - only what I've read, no experience on this at all. This is why I spent the extra for DPA's, to use the phantom mod you'd need something like a PS-2, which will need another couple hundred dollars.

As for the colour, maybe put some black insulating tape on anything that may be visible, or you can get heatshrink plastic stuff that will be less weighty, or just a black marker/acrylic paint. But I guess you'll need to be careful around the caps.

Cards are directional, hyper-cards are even more directional. So with hypers the slightest movement will cause excessive phasing I think. But the directional qualities can help in a poor sounding arena, compared to omini's. You can switch between hypers, cards and omni's on AT's.

don't take my word for this though, it's just what I've read, I'm by no means an expert.

[kuba]

PS redbook's AT853 are white...do you think it's a problem for stealthing taping? I've seen they're phantom modded...what does this mean? that I don't need the battery box or I still need it (for bass rolloff)?

I think SP-CMC-4s are stealth enough (I use AT831 and no one notices I wear some mics). White, well, I wouldn't want that. Phantom is good, but not good for stealthing as it requires some more pieces of equipment (source of phantom power + adaptors).

[joolz]

if you can push it to $350+ you could try for these DPA's on ebay, you'd just need to get a SP BB for them...

http://cgi.ebay.com/DPA-4061-Tan-lavaliere-microphone-pair-for-Mini-Disc_W0QQitemZ7366586510QQcategoryZ29950QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[MLKLuke]

well so now I've got to find some AT853 + SP BB in europe...not so easy white mics are dangerous in my opinion too

for the DPA's...well I considered also that option but I don't know if Omnidirectional mics are the right choice for me...in italy audience is usually really loudy and I was oriented on cardioids or hypercardioids for this reason, and DPA's + DPA MM battery box are much more expensive than SP + BB (even if they surely are much more "stealth")...as I read that being them "directionals" they usually put audience noise in the background and give more relevance to the sound source where they're pointed at

so you think hypers are maybe too much "sensible" to movements? I mean for example head movement if mounted in hat...

from what I understand...phantom is not so good for me cause it needs more space and a more expensive BB, isn't it?

[joolz]

well so now I've got to find some AT853 + SP BB in europe...not so easy white mics are dangerous in my opinion too

for the DPA's...well I considered also that option but I don't know if Omnidirectional mics are the right choice for me...in italy audience is usually really loudy and I was oriented on cardioids or hypercardioids for this reason, and DPA's + DPA MM battery box are much more expensive than SP + BB (even if they surely are much more "stealth")...as I read that being them "directionals" they usually put audience noise in the background and give more relevance to the sound source where they're pointed at

so you think hypers are maybe too much "sensible" to movements? I mean for example head movement if mounted in hat...

from what I understand...phantom is not so good for me cause it needs more space and a more expensive BB, isn't it?

Yep you will get more audience with DPA's but the trade off for a real transparent sounds suits me, you just need to be positioned well.

From what I know, for cards and hypers in a hat, you will need to be statue-like or the phasing will be obvious.

If you don't need the mics now, just keep checking the yard sale, some SP mics will pop up eventually.

[MLKLuke]

I need them for next february...my maximum cap for mics + battery box is about 300 euros...I can't go over that

[Josephine]

MICS: I've to take a decision between SP-CMC-4 (AT853) and SP-CMC-8 (AT933/943)

I've got them both and prefer the SP-CMC-8s because of their size.   I do not hear a difference between the two.  When it comes time for super-duper stealth, they're hard to beat.  I use them when I know I'll be recording under the artist's nose.

[MLKLuke]

so I think I will have to find some american guy that can buy them for me and then send to me so that I can save on shipping to europe and hopefully on taxes I've got some friends from usa...I will try...or wait SP-CMC-8 to appear on yard sale

[kuba]

AT853 is a good choice imo.

If you are skilled and wanna save some money you can make your own battery box.

[MLKLuke]

well I'm not really skilled in electronics unfortunately some persons suggested me Denecke PS-2 unit for phantom supply...in case I would use this one I would still need SP-battery box? are there european dealers of Denecke products? is it a rig setup that someone else would suggest me?

[redbook]

You've maybe a 50:50 chance of not paying import duty on a US order. Depends how sharp customs are the day it comes in.

haha, really true

it really depends on how smart is the guy who gets your package. You can put it's a gift or whatever you want, it really depends on luck lol

[MLKLuke]

so...after some thoughts I maybe came to a decision:

AT853 phantom modded + Dencecke PS2 with miniplug output + JB3

do you think is a good and quite stealth rig to begin and not to spend thousands of $/euros?

[RebelRebel]

Thats why you get someone you know and trust to hook you up. (an american) I help people out when I can.

Teddy

You've maybe a 50:50 chance of not paying import duty on a US order. Depends how sharp customs are the day it comes in.

haha, really true

it really depends on how smart is the guy who gets your package. You can put it's a gift or whatever you want, it really depends on luck lol