Topic: NYC proposes limits on public photography/filming

[spreetaper]

http://gothamist.com/2007/06/29/city_proposes_l.php#comments

there are exceptions granted for groups of 1-2 people using handheld devices or a tripod
and also exceptions for the same groups at parades/protests etc...
i think if followed i dont really have a big problem with it.. but for example when they proposed the ban on picture taking here in the subways n 2004... i still get workers/officers to this day telling me not to take pictures thinking it is against the law when it isn't...

lastly i dont see audio recording mentioned anywhere but i wonder if that would ever come up especialy if it was a large grou of tapers at an outdoor show here in a park.. that would be interesting..
then again i dont think this has a chance in hell of passing but what do i know

[herrmann2burn]

how is that subway project coming along?  I know you said youve been working on it for a while.  How many stations do you have left?

[spreetaper]

its coming along slowly... i finally finished my own line the L...
it does take a while because i have requirements of what i need to take a picture of in each station in order for me to consider the station "done"
it does vary depending on the line but for the most part i try to get a picture of one of the following

entrance from the street
braille sign at entrance from the street
station sign on beam on station plaform
braille sign on beam on station platform
a picture of the track with the platform in view.. preferably with people also in view
mosaic of the sign for the station.. ex.. "42nd Street"   
mosaic of designs or art... some stations have as many as 100+ seperate mosaics
lastly there is the 6 line (green) which is the original subway line as has old as well as new signs



so basically ive completed about 60 stations so far.. i believe i have aout 200 to go

this is my flickr collection just for subway stations
http://www.flickr.com/photos/spreetaper/collections/72157600006555842/


oh yeah i forgot to mention sometimes i go back and redo a station.. especially with my new super wide angle lense and i also try to take pictures of musicians performing in the subway when i can..

[pmonk66]

Ugggh - Carroll street. Nothing worse being on that platform at 8:30 AM!

The F train fucking sucked!

[spreetaper]

yeah they really need to bring back express stops on the F train in Brooklyn... they have the track for it.. use it!

[taper420]

So it looks like it passed....

http://www.superdeluxe.com/sd/contentDetail.do?id=D81F2344BF5AC7BBB95583B99C21776EFD8B84F048B4F31A

This sucks big time.

[Frank in JC]

So it looks like it passed....

http://www.superdeluxe.com/sd/contentDetail.do?id=D81F2344BF5AC7BBB95583B99C21776EFD8B84F048B4F31A

This sucks big time.

My "favorite" regulation is the one concerning tripods.  You don't need a permit to shoot with a tripod so long as the duration of setup to tear-down is less than ten minutes.  Gee, thanks guys. 

It's a law guaranteed to be selectively enforced, and it's the people who are trying to be creative who will be harassed the most.  (Which is generally how society works anyway.) 

Liberty wept.


-Frank

[Frank in JC]

I don't normally read the tabloid newspapers, but at lunch I noticed that this is AM New York's cover story.  The short article didn't say much except for "the agency [the MOFTB] has extended the public comment period from late June until this Friday, after which it can publish the rules as-is, amend them, or else scrap them and begin the process anew."

We'll see.

 

[spreetaper]

So it looks like it passed....

http://www.superdeluxe.com/sd/contentDetail.do?id=D81F2344BF5AC7BBB95583B99C21776EFD8B84F048B4F31A

This sucks big time.

My "favorite" regulation is the one concerning tripods.  You don't need a permit to shoot with a tripod so long as the duration of setup to tear-down is less than ten minutes.  Gee, thanks guys. 

It's a law guaranteed to be selectively enforced, and it's the people who are trying to be creative who will be harassed the most.  (Which is generally how society works anyway.) 

Liberty wept.


-Frank

the exact wording of the regulation regarding tripods reads as this..

"The following activities do not require that a permit be obtained pursuant to this chapter"

" (ii) Filming or photography occurring on City property, as described in subdivisons (a) of this section, involving the use of a single tripod, provided that such activity does not involve an interaction among five or more people at a single site and the use of a single tripod for ten or more minutes, including all set-up and breakdown time in connection with such activities"

so your concern is that you will be at a concert filming with a tripod and have a problem?

or that you will be a single person with a tripod filming.. in which case you will have no problem

just curious

[taper420]

Has nothing to do with concerts.... I'm an independent video producer. Sometimes I have a crew of friends come with me. Sometimes we interview people on the street. I believe the way it's worded, if they can construe that there are more than 4 people involved (camera, audio, reporter, grip, interviewee), then I am in violation. If I'm at a mass event such as a protest, I am "involved" with everyone there, putting me in violation.

The wording pretty much leaves it up to the interpretation of the cops, which already abuse the law by designating areas "frozen zones" if they don't want you shooting there. This just gives them more power to be dicks. They could arrest you and stifle your one chance at documenting an event. Sure you can fight it in court, but that's after the point.... they've already done their damage, and done just what they wanted to do.... shut down the independent voice of the people.

[dmccabe]

but that's after the point.... they've already done their damage, and done just what they wanted to do.... shut down the independent voice of the people.

This is exactly how this law will be abused... any kind of demonstration or public event "they" do not want documented... they will shut you down instantly... by the time you appeal, the event is over. Fascism slowly creeping into Amerika.

[tiberiusbkirk]

taper420
your second paragraph nails it. that's what I'm worried about and with good reason.
We've learned from the past that they don't play by their rules.

[Frank in JC]

so your concern is that you will be at a concert filming with a tripod and have a problem?

or that you will be a single person with a tripod filming.. in which case you will have no problem

just curious

No, my concern is being harassed by the authorities while walking the streets and parks of NYC.  Leaving my camera mounted on a tripod for over 10 minutes is nothing unusual, especially when the light is changing.  As I mentioned in my previous post, my worry is that it will lead to selective, discriminatory enforcement.

Concerts are a different story--if the venue says "no," tough. 

The reason I'm concerned about this stuff is that it follows a trend which I feel is going in a very un-American direction.

I lived in Philly for quite a while but recently moved to Jersey City (it's across the Hudson River from downtown NYC).  I noticed immediately that many people in this part of the nation are highly suspicious of anything out of the ordinary which is really messing wither their common sense.

The other day I was out taking photographs and decided to walk to the adjacent town, Hoboken (purgatory for yuppies).  The Holland Tunnel separates our two towns and while it's not well advertised, photographing the tunnel entrance is forbidden.  (Even though anybody can DRIVE A VEHICLE through it.)  Well, some guy saw me with a camera and before I knew it, two squad cars pulled up behind me as I stood on the sidewalk.  "Sir, we want to see what you were taking pictures of!"  My reaction probably wasn't well advised, "Are you [bleep] kidding me?!" but the cops were fairly cool about it.  However, if I had a bunch of Holland Tunnel pics on my camera there's no doubt in my mind I would have been arrested. 

A little at a time... that's how it happens.


-Frank

[spreetaper]

Has nothing to do with concerts.... I'm an independent video producer. Sometimes I have a crew of friends come with me. Sometimes we interview people on the street. I believe the way it's worded, if they can construe that there are more than 4 people involved (camera, audio, reporter, grip, interviewee), then I am in violation. If I'm at a mass event such as a protest, I am "involved" with everyone there, putting me in violation.

The wording pretty much leaves it up to the interpretation of the cops, which already abuse the law by designating areas "frozen zones" if they don't want you shooting there. This just gives them more power to be dicks. They could arrest you and stifle your one chance at documenting an event. Sure you can fight it in court, but that's after the point.... they've already done their damage, and done just what they wanted to do.... shut down the independent voice of the people.

the protest part is a very grey area and a previously mentioned comment i read about college students filming are points that need to be ironed out.. keep in mind that is why they are having an open forum to discuss this and it has not been in fact PASSED... yes i agree that parts of this are very vague or leave things up to the police..
but then i can sit here all day and argue about laws on the books that they can charge you with that they dont

jaywalking... the new loud noise ordinances ... the new laws on the subway -- putting your feet on the seats.. leaving your bag on the seats...

think about what you are saying.. if you were at a protest and they considered everyone as a group.. how many people would they have to arrest?
pretty silly if you ask me

frankly i think most people are blowing this way out of proportion
and again nothing has been passed... its still just a proposal

[tiberiusbkirk]

they may bring back the orange netting. that's how many people they could arrest.
remember the RNC?

[taper420]

remember it?.... i'm on a list now because of it.

this is nothing new... the reality is the reality... they are just covering their asses better now

[tiberiusbkirk]

does that mean your fingerprints are in a database now, taper?

[taper420]

no, just my name... but they can probably link it cause my prints have been taken before.

[BobW]

Ugggh - Carroll street. Nothing worse being on that platform at 8:30 AM!

The F train fucking sucked!

Carroll Gardens?
You been hanging in the neighborhood?     


The Gothamist must be bored.
I doubt that NYC would ever chase the happy bands of tourists and their cams out of the city.
The hospitality industry would have a fit.

[spreetaper]

they may bring back the orange netting. that's how many people they could arrest.
remember the RNC?

of course i remember it..i was there
but what does that have to do with people filming or taking pictures?
maybe a teenie part.. but the majority of it was just a large amount of people being arrested and stuck in pens and they were  purely protesting.. thats a whole other subject..

that was not just the nyc police dept anyways.. that was a whole ton of outside influence
ive never seen cops act like that and ive been in some sticky situations here in nyc
example .. just recently i was directly between cops/horses and a large mob on my street here in brooklyn with my dslr camera... had to run into the front door of my apt building all the while taking pictures of the crowd (they didnt mind we taking their pics) and all the while taking pics of the cops.. they couldnt stop me as i was in my apt building.. they just werent thrilled with me taking pics...

and as a matter of fact i took pictures around MSG during the RNC.. and the only time i was threatened by the police had nothing to do with taking pictures.. i was actually told i would be arrested for standing in the same spot for too long next to a guy who was wearing a gas mask... i was tempted to say something but i did not.. probably was a good idea!

[tiberiusbkirk]

some of the people Rounded up were not protesters. let's just say the police can make
your day miserable very easily, that's all I'm saying about this subject.
You did ask how many people they will arrest.

[spreetaper]

yep so they had a meeting.. and enough people complained and now they are reworking the wording..

http://www.nyc.gov/html/film/html/news/080107_proposed_permit_rules_copy.shtm

so yeah still nothing set in stone... and doesnt mean more lawsuits wont be forthcoming!

[spreetaper]

update... proposed rules have been eased for amateur photogs
obviously we would still need to read the fine print but seems like that should be a little more fair

http://www.1010wins.com/Report:-NYC-Easing-Strict-Film-Permit-Rules/1142167