Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: hey experts, need help  (Read 3415 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline scb

  • Eli Manning should die of gonorrhea and rot in hell. Would you like a cookie, son?
  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 8677
  • Gender: Male
hey experts, need help
« on: June 04, 2006, 09:41:01 PM »
My girlfriend has always had a shitty digital camera, and with her birthday coming up, her parents are talking about splitting the cost of a nice camera with me.

She seems to think she wants an SLR, but she has no idea what an SLR is.  She just knows that they take really good pictures and that they're "serious cameras" vs a point and shoot

Should I even bother looking at an SLR?  I think it's kind of pointless, but that's mainly because she doesn't even know what an SLR is.  What are the good point and shoot models out there, and would she be satisfied with them? 

Would an SLR be dumb for a beginner? 

As you can see, i have very general questions and would like any and all opinions

Offline MattD

  • Taper Emeritus
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4634
  • Gender: Male
Re: hey experts, need help
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2006, 09:52:33 PM »
A basic SLR is a great camera to learn on and their program modes are pretty foolproof. That said, that means there will be a cost for lenses above and beyond the camera body. The question of if she'd be satisfied depends on how into it she'll be. The newest digital SLRs are like small computers and there's a learning curve attached to them. It's not a given that someone can always just start shooting out of the box.

There are some "SLR-like" digitals like the Canon Powershot S2 IS that might be more appropriate. Keep in mind that photographers take really good pictures, not the camera! An SLR wouldn't be a dumb idea for a beginner, but it depends on what her goals are. If they're "just to take some pictures" then I'd say that's not what she's looking for. If it's to learn about photography and get more control over the creative process, then an SLR might be a better idea. The camera I mentioned above is a significant step above the complete point-and-shoots like the Elph and such.
Out of the game … for now?

Offline dgodwin

  • ...
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2901
  • Gender: Male
  • AT4041->Tascam DR-100mkiii
Re: hey experts, need help
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2006, 10:17:12 PM »
I'd go with a Nikon n50 kit, or the similarly priced canon digital SLR kit.  In full program mode, they are as easy to use as a point and shoot, once you get used to the "push down half-way to focus" and leave room from growth if she decides to really get into photography.  If cost is an issue, you could get a cheap, used film SLR. 

Offline scb

  • Eli Manning should die of gonorrhea and rot in hell. Would you like a cookie, son?
  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 8677
  • Gender: Male
Re: hey experts, need help
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2006, 06:45:45 AM »
>>Keep in mind that photographers take really good pictures, not the camera!<<

exactly what i told her!

and thanks for the responses so far

Offline dmonterisi

  • Taper Emeritus
  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 11952
  • Gender: Male
  • Stomach Full of Regret
Re: hey experts, need help
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2006, 11:21:19 AM »
like matt said, it really depends upon what she wants to get out of the new camera.  if she just wants a camera that will produce really nice images, but is not interested in learning more advanced shooting techniques, an slr may be overkill.  but i do not think it's dumb to get an slr just because she is a beginner and hasn't used one before.  when i got my first digital slr at the end of 2003, i had never owned a film slr and didn't really have any idea what i was doing with it at first.  but i knew that it was something that interested me and wanted something that i could learn on and i could grow with.  at first, i stuck to the automated modes set in the camera, but i quickly learned that there was an awful lot more to get out of the camera by learning how to shoot in the manual modes.  but it does take a substantial amount of learning to do so.

the "slr-type" camera that matt mentioned may be a decent option.  they offer much of the flexibility of an slr but they do not allow you to change lenses.  An slr operates by having a mirror in front of the film or digi-sensor so that the viewfinder operates through the lens--you are seeing exactly what the lens sees and the camera meters through the lens as well--when you press the shutter, the mirror flips up and the sensor or film is exposed.  i'm not sure exactly how the "slr-type cameras operate in this regard--the viewfinder may just be an electronic representation of what the sensor is seeing at any given point.  related to this is the fact that an slr's shutter release is instantaneous with the pressing of the shutter.  digital P&S's have a shutter lag that i found pretty frustrating--the electronic shutter is not as responsive.  i believe the "slr-type" cameras have some sort of hybrid electronic/mechanical shutter--i'm not sure how responsive it is.

the inability to change lenses, however, is the main drawback of these cameras.  you are limited only to the type of lens the camera comes with and its zoom.  now most of these come with good lenses, with good optics and a decent to good zoom.  so the basic lens that comes on an "slr-type" camera is actually going to be somewhat more flexible that the basic kit lens that comes with a digi-slr (the kit on the canon drebel only comes with a 3x zoom).  (there are some other technical factors that play in to this--i believe the sensor on the slr type is physicaly smaller than a digi-slr so it's easier for them to build a stronger zoom into the camera).

as matt also alluded to, buying a digi-slr is really only the initial investment.  if she really starts to get into shooting alot, the limitations of the most basic kit lens will become apparent pretty quickly--it has a very limited focal range (optical zoom in P&S parlance), is somewhat flat color-wise when compared to other lenses in the canon range, lacks some contrast and can be a little soft at times.  so there is a decent chance that she will want to upgrade lenses in the future and trust me, this hobby is even more expensive than taping.  there is ALWAYS something else to buy if you really want to.  plus, with digital-slr's, depending on how you shoot there can be substantial post-processing involved.  i shoot all my images in RAW mode--RAW is the direct sensor data before processing is applied to the image to convert it to a TIFF or JPG.  now, this offers incredible flexibility if you are serious about your images--it's basically like being able to handle darkroom processing--you get increased flexibility in exposing the image more or less to control highlights and shadows and allows you to adjust the white balance of the image in post.  then, once it is in tif format, i do substantial photoshop work on many of my images.  imo, the true benefits of a digi-slr are lost without doing some measure of post processing.  just like serious film shooting, development is part of the deal.  i cannot just take a bunch of shots, take my CF card to walmart and get prints.  you can set up the slr to allow you to shoot that way but you are losing an awful lot of the control of the image.  the "slr-type"  cameras like the s3 is do not allow you to shoot raw--only jpg, which is an enormous drawback for me, but it may not be relevant for her.

now all that said, like i said earlier, it really comes down to what she thinks she wants to get out of it.  if she just wants to take really nice images in the camera with some flexibility in how they are taken, but no post-processing, and no additional lenses, the canon s3 is is a great camera to look at.  i looked over its feature set and it is really nice at that price point ($450 from B&H).  you get a lot of the flexibility of slr cameras with the limitations i mentioned, a very good lens with substantial zoom range, an slr-"feel", built-in basic image stabilization (which you will not get in a digi-slr) and out of the camera ready to print ability.  it could be a good bridge if she wants to start getting into photography more seriously without making a bigger investment now.  she could learn all the basics of advanced photography on a camera like that and if it is something that she really gets into, it makes the much larger investment of an slr kit down the road much more justified.  besides, the price of digi-slr's continues to fall as technology improves--the lenses will always be the most expensive part of the whole deal.

no matter what you get, i think this book: understanding exposure is a worthy companion present.  it's the best book i've seen on the fundamentals of advanced photography.  it explains what aperture, shutter speed and ISO are in basic terms and how the three come together to produce images.  it gives multiple photo examples of how each affects your image.  excellent book. 

feel free to follow up with any more questions or if you need clarification on any of this stuff, either here or by PM.

Offline johnw

  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3818
  • Gender: Male
    • My cd List
Re: hey experts, need help
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2006, 11:35:14 AM »
I would think that a good compromise would be the Canon Powershot Pro 1. It is 8MP with an slr-like body, has an L glass lens (Canon's highest quality) with 28-200/2.4-3.5 and can shoot in RAW mode. I don't know where you can buy new since it was phased out, but they are $480 used at B&H.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=buyUsed&kw=used&Q=317308&O=productList
Schoeps MK41 & MK4V  |  Schoeps CMC6, Schoeps KCY, AKI/2C, PFA, Nbox Cable/PFA  |  Grace V2, Nbox Platinum  |  SD744T, SD MixPre 6, Sony PCM M10

Canon 16-35mm/2.8L mkii, 24-70mm/2.8L, 70-200mm/2.8L IS, 50mm/1.8 mkii, 135mm/2L, 100mm/2.8L IS, Sigma 35mm/1.4 A  |  Canon 5D mk4

Offline dmonterisi

  • Taper Emeritus
  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 11952
  • Gender: Male
  • Stomach Full of Regret
Re: hey experts, need help
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2006, 11:37:09 AM »
I would think that a good compromise would be the Canon Powershot Pro 1. It is 8MP with an slr-like body, has an L glass lens (Canon's highest quality) with 28-200/2.4-3.5 and can shoot in RAW mode. I don't know where you can buy new since it was phased out, but they are $480 used at B&H.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=buyUsed&kw=used&Q=317308&O=productList

agreed, this is a really nice compromise camera.  didn't realize it was phazed out.  there are some serious photogs that carry that as there "travel camera" when they cannot carry an slr kit with them.

Offline dmonterisi

  • Taper Emeritus
  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 11952
  • Gender: Male
  • Stomach Full of Regret
Re: hey experts, need help
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2006, 11:49:44 AM »
a follow-up on the powershot pro I...it is still listed on the canon site so i checked out its features.  there is major factor that gives me pause in recommending it.  it is an older model based on canon's original Digic Image Processing chipset.  I believe that the Digic II is a substantial upgrade over the original and i would personally avoid purchasing the older chipset, especially if she is not going to be getting into post-processing in photoshop.

Offline scb

  • Eli Manning should die of gonorrhea and rot in hell. Would you like a cookie, son?
  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 8677
  • Gender: Male
Re: hey experts, need help
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2006, 12:32:01 PM »
thank you!

Offline adubphoto

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 176
  • Gender: Male
  • What happened?!
    • www.boymangodshit.com
Re: hey experts, need help
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2006, 12:53:32 PM »
I'm not going to type a book here but the Canon Rebel XLT is the way to go. Do a little reasearch on it.  When she is ready, she can get new lenses and all that shit. It's an entry level SLR that is compatible with all the small, med and big dog canon lenses.
Ret. Audio: Rode NT5's(rodents) > Omnistudio USB > Gateway5300> Cubase
Visual: Canon 30D // Sigma 24-70mm f2.8 // Canon 50mm f1.8 // Canon 70-200mm f2.8 // Canon 580EX

 
Aquarium Rescue Unit Flickr photo set | FLips Flickr photo set | GRAB Flickr photo set

Offline jlykos

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4416
  • Gender: Male
  • Don't sweat the technique
Re: hey experts, need help
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2006, 10:22:27 AM »
Portability may be a major factor for this as well.  Not to draw generalizations, but there is a difference between how practical a camera will be if someone wants to use it to take pictures of friends at parties or at the beach, or if they want to take the time to shoot more artistıc shots.  I actually use my point and shoot more than my SLR (both are film) because when I am camping or hiking, the smaller size of the point and shoot is a major consideration.  I also take a lot of pictures of my projects and the point and shoot is somewhat more discreet to capture my subjects.  Not everybody feels this way, I am only using these as examples of some of the choices that I make.

See what she wants to do with the camera and take it from there.  Sometimes a small, cheap solution is all you need.
dpa 4061 > Church Audio 9200 > Sony PCM-D50 (Moon Audio Silver Dragon v3 interconnect)

"I have no views," Mickey Melchiondo, known as Dean Ween, said in a philosophical moment. "I am way too stupid. I have no strong feelings about anything. I'm really into television and the computer. I believe everything I see on TV and read on the Internet."

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.12 seconds with 36 queries.
© 2002-2024 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF