Topic: Best FREE program to convert M/S?

[Chomps]

Looking for the best FREE program to convert a M/S recording.



Thanks
Keith

[Patrick]

You can do it manually in any DAW.  It's really simple. The only plug-in I've played around with is the Schoeps double m/s plug.

[Chomps]

You can do it manually in any DAW.  It's really simple. The only plug-in I've played around with is the Schoeps double m/s plug.

DAW?

[leehookem]

Digital Audio Workstation

[SmokinJoe]

What program do you already have, and/or already familiar with?  On some programs I think it's referred to as "mid side decoding".

Audacity is free and has a plugin for mid/side, but rather than switching to another program (which has a learning curve) you may be better off doing it with your existing program, even if you have to do it "the hard way" without a plugin.  If you have used your editor to mix AUD + SBD together you have the skills to do Mid/Side easy enough.  Basically the right channel is what you get when you mix the MID + SIDE together, and then you make the left channel is what you get when you INVERT the side channel and mix MID + INVERTED SIDE channel together.   I know it sounds confusing, and maybe I'm the only one who does it this way... but then I am able to tune in the WIDTH of the mix by adjusting the volume of the SIDE channels and they come into the mix.  To me that is easier than guessing at ratios.

[Chomps]

I currently use WaveLab

[SmokinJoe]

I currently use WaveLab

I expect Wavelab has the function built in, or maybe you have to add a free VST plugin.  This really is a pretty standard feature in any audio editing software... almost equivalent to "lighten/darken" in a photo editor... I really would be surprised if would exclude it.

[JasonSobel]

I would recommend using the free "Voxengo MSED" VST plug-in.  It's very simple to use and can be used in just about any audio editing program.

[Krispy D]

ever scratch your head and said, now that I have this recording what the hell do I do with it?      Good luck Keith, can't wait to hear the results.

[SmokinJoe]

He's a bold man.  I didn't run Mid/Side my second night out... I put that off for months.

[deadheadcorey]

I currently use WaveLab

wavelab rulz!  

[Krispy D]

He's a bold man.  I didn't run Mid/Side my second night out... I put that off for months.

I might have talked him into it...  He asked what I would do.  I would do mid side, cause I've never done it before...   

[Chomps]

He's a bold man.  I didn't run Mid/Side my second night out... I put that off for months.

I might have talked him into it...  He asked what I would do.  I would do mid side, cause I've never done it before...   

Looks like the next dvd you get from me will be the raw MS files...

I listened to the whole tape on headphones and it sounds great.

[Krispy D]

In all honesty, I would love that for the opportunity to play with it.

[Chomps]

In all honesty, I would love that for the opportunity to play with it.

You got it.

[willndmb]

what decoding needs to be done with ms?
i know nothing about it other then you typically use a fig 8 and card cap stacked

[digifish_music]

http://www.schoeps.de/dmsplugin.html

[boojum]

I'd opt for the Voxengo plugin, too.  I can do it in my software as that option is built in (Samplitude) or use the Schoeps DMS as I run their mics.  I had not thought of decoding two mics using the DMS plugin.  Hmmm.  It is optimized for Schoeps Mk4s and Mk8's.  Does it work well for MS??

[stevetoney]

It seems to me that you don't need a decoder, but obviously it makes it easier and quicker. 

I've been using the M/S function in Audition, but I think you can do it manually.  All you'd have to do is the following...

OK, so after the show, you have two recorded channels...1) the MID channel (usually recorded to the left channel or channel one and 2) the SIDE channel which is usually recorded on the right channel or channel 2.

Take the Side/Fig 8 channel and insert that into both the Left and Right channels of the new mix, but reversing the phase of the right channel. 

In the new mix, pan the left channel 100% left and pan the right channel 100% right.

Now mix the MID channel with the above channels and vary the percentage of the mid (volume) in the final mix to vary the amount of stereo effect you hear.  In other words, if you keep mid at 100%, there will be a little stereo sound in the final mix...but if you decrease the mid to say 50 or 60 percent, you'll hear more stereo channel separation.

I'm pretty sure this is how it's done manually.  Anyone with more experience, please make any corrections to the above.

Read this article for more info. and explanation, especially the part about 'mixing'...
http://www.wikirecording.org/Mid-Side_Microphone_Technique

[rowjimmy]

I think you have it well spelled out right there. I love mid-side, myself and I've been using the Voxengo plugin.

[JackHenry]

Out of curiosity (and no offence is intended with this question) but if you're not sure what to do with M/S are you sure you recorded it correctly with the correct microphone arrangement?

[Krispy D]

Out of curiosity (and no offence is intended with this question) but if you're not sure what to do with M/S are you sure you recorded it correctly with the correct microphone arrangement?

I shouldn't speak for Keith but yes, it was set up right thank you.

[stevetoney]

Out of curiosity (and no offence is intended with this question) but if you're not sure what to do with M/S are you sure you recorded it correctly with the correct microphone arrangement?

I shouldn't speak for Keith but yes, it was set up right thank you.

In defense, it is very much easier to figure out that you have the mics setup coincident and have figure 8 set up as the side mic.  I think that's almost a no-brainer if you know even the least bit about M/S.  However, decoding is far less of a no-brainer, especially if you don't have a plug-in.  Also, it's fairly intuitive that the fig 8 lobes would point out sideways...but decoding isn't very intuitive.

[DSatz]

boojum, there may have been a misunderstanding here--the Schoeps "Double M/S" plug-in is for recording with three microphones in any event (two cardioids and a figure-8), but has options for output to 5.0 surround or to two-channel stereo. So it's only in that sense that it supports stereo recording: with three microphones and three recorded channels.

Now that I have an R-44 and a nice old Schoeps CMTS 501 stereo microphone, I intend to try it, using a CMC 64 for the front "M" microphone.

--best regards

[JackHenry]

and have figure 8 set up as the side mic.  I think that's almost a no-brainer if you know even the least bit about M/S.  However, decoding is far less of a no-brainer, especially if you don't have a plug-in.  Also, it's fairly intuitive that the fig 8 lobes would point out sideways...but decoding isn't very intuitive.

I do know of one instance where someone had the 8 around the incorrect way. That is, pointing right instead of left.

[DSatz]

It's no problem if the figure-8 is aimed to the right instead of to the left; just invert the polarity of the "S" track before matrixing to L/R stereo.

Or don't, and then swap the L and R channels after matrixing:

L = M + S
R = M - S

If S is inverted, then you get

L = M - S
R = M + S

... which is the same result, except with left and right reversed.

[Brian Skalinder]

I do know of one instance where someone had the 8 around the incorrect way. That is, pointing right instead of left.

Easy to fix, as long as you don't do what I did once:  Mid pointing left and the Side pointing forwards/back!

[page]

I do know of one instance where someone had the 8 around the incorrect way. That is, pointing right instead of left.

Easy to fix, as long as you don't do what I did once:  Mid pointing left and the Side pointing forwards/back!

Done that too, I got lucky and my mid was an omni that day. I ended up with a rather listenable mono subcard when I did the decode and figured out what I'd done.