Topic: Need some Answers from Tapers for a Paper! Help a sista out! :)

[easy jim]

Hey guys. The land of PT sent me here because they thought you'd be able to help me out a lil bit!

I have a research paper that's based upon the free music sharing throughout the jamband community and kind of why it's so accepted by the artists themselves, etc...

soo if you wonderful people are feeling like you'd like to help me out by answering the following, it'd be greatLy appreciated!!!

1. Why did you start taping?
I started recording live Grateful Dead from the radio with cassettes in college to be able to hear the live shows over and over, because they had the energy and spotenaiety lacking in the official studio releases.  Then, after becoming friends with a taper, I borrowed his deck once to record a show and became hooked after being able to listen to the show again after I returned home that night.


2. What do you get out of it?
Personal satisfaction - mostly.  Sometimes bands/venues/promoters pay me and/or put me on the guestlist and provide bar tab.

3. Do you trade studio releases or official releases the way you trade bootlegs and do Do you ever feel guilty? (giving away free music and all that jazz thats unaccepted in the "popular" music world)
no and no.  We do not trade 'bootlegs.'  We trade 'live recordings' (made openly or stealth captured)..."never for money...only for love." 'Bootlegs' are recordings made and sold with the intention of profitting from them without the artists' permission.

4. Do you think allowing fans to tape hurts or helps bands in getting bigger and gaining recognition
It helps unless the band does not vary their setlists, or cannot pull off 'their sound' without studio wizardry.

5. How much money have you invested in taping gear and has it been a benefit to you and your friends in the community or do you feel like it's a waste of money?
>$10k.  It has been a benefit to me to the extent that I have a role to play in the 'scene,' and the tangible forms of recognition it has brought from bands/venues/promoters.  While many of us carry it to an extreme, myself included, it is no more a waste of money than many other hobbies/penchants to collect.

A waste of money?  That's a loaded question.  It's like asking a woman if having several different handbags is worth the money.

[/b]

6. do you think taping shows increases the fanbase by getting people interested in the music for free, before they have to buy anything?
Yes, presuming the band allows and encourages the sharing of the recordings.  On a secondary level, it also enables the bands to hear themself as heard by their audience, and to fine-tune their sound and performance.

7...does it also increase attendance at these mostly improvisational shows?
Absolutely

8. if these bands suddenly disallowed taping would it hurt there their bottom line (money they make on tour and through record sales)
I think yes, because a lot of these types of bands make much more money on the road vs. from record sales.  At a certain level of popularity, however, I believe it becomes a lot less relevant.

9. and lastly, is this whole debacle just the dinosaur record companies grasping for straws in an era when technology has made them obsolete?
If by 'debacle' you mean that record companies seem unable to adapt and retain their previous levels of profitability in the newer digital marketplace, then - yes - they are grasping at straws.  The days of the home computer/home studio and self-trained recordist have been here for a while.  Equipement is cheaper and more accessible, and the large record companies are more adept at raiding and re-releasing their back catclogue than producing and grooming new talent.

Thank you so much y'all! much LOVE xoxo.

[DisturbedPyro]

1. i wanted to be able to relive the experience of the shows i was actually at. its one thing to hear a live show of a favorite band. its another to hear the show you were actually at

2. same as #1

3. never trade studio/official releases

4. i think it helps. spreads their music and gets their name out there more. isnt that what its all about in the beggining anyway? getting as much exposure as you can? and then once you do make it big, does it matter that the live stuff is being spread around? not really, youre already big, youve already made it

5. $200 flat. all used but in great shape and great quality recordings. im happy with my rig. it has def been a benefit for me cuz i can now relive the experience of the shows ive been at. i havent recorded a show that really matters to me yet, just a couple of test runs of a local band i like and another band. my friends will like it too because those that go to the show with me may want a copy

6. if it gets the music out to people that normally wouldnt have heard it otherwise, then yes. also, ive become bigger a bigger fan from collecting live recordings. it makes you want to go to a live show yourself even more. and listening to shows youve been at makes you reminisce even more and make you want to see them again even more

7. i dont know about that one

8. ultimately i think yes. if the band is already big, then it wouldnt matter. if the band has a big enough fan base to begin with, whether or not they allow taping would not effect how many people attend their shows. if theyre big, fans will come regardless

9. that is certainly arguable

[rowjimmytour]

1. Why did you start taping?
To relive the show at home and have some thing to trade for other shows pre internet. Also in my home town I am almost always the only taper so some one has to save these shows and its me.

2. What do you get out of it?
Its a addiction and a hobby for me that makes me want to capture the sound from the stage better each time I go out and tape some thing. Also I help spread the word for unknown bands that no one has heard of accept the folks on the West coast.
3. Do you trade studio releases or official releases the way you trade bootlegs and do Do you ever feel guilty? (giving away free music and all that jazz thats unaccepted in the "popular" music world)
Never and blow the whistle on folks who hurt the taping community by doing illegal crap that does not fly w/ the bands.
4. Do you think allowing fans to tape hurts or helps bands in getting bigger and gaining recognition
It helps spread the word and fills the seats at the venues and allows for folks to get a idea of what they are in for at the giving bands show.
5. How much money have you invested in taping gear and has it been a benefit to you and your friends in the community or do you feel like it's a waste of money?
$2950 Like I said its a hobby just like golfing, collecting cars, or what ever and taping keeps me busy and happy at the same time. Taping and sharing shows is like a double edged sword and that mot of the folks are stoked that you captured the show but then there is always a few who complain to hear/see them self complain and are never happy. Its surely worth it or I wouldn't lug around all that heavy equipment.

6. do you think taping shows increases the fanbase by getting people interested in the music for free, before they have to buy anything?
It works both ways and that some folks hear about a band and every one says how you should like them. So you give them a listen and maybe go to a show and it does not stick but then some where down the road you give them another listen and this time it sticks. I think most of the time after taking the time to d/l and burn to CDR it sticks for most folks after one listen if they go through all this.
7...does it also increase attendance at these mostly improvisational shows?
For sure and w/ all the forums and tribes a little hype about a certain show goes a long way and next time you go check out the band the place is full.
8. if these bands suddenly disallowed taping would it hurt there bottom line (money they make on tour and through record sales)
Most likely not because most bands that stop allowing taping have finally sold out and are big time by then and don't need us tapers as billboards any more.
9. and lastly, is this whole debacle just the dinosaur record companies grasping for straws in an era when technology has made them obsolete?
Every one is looking for a profit one way or the other and any device that records and unofficial is considered a threat to these guys.

[morst]

1. Why did you start taping?

I got a portable recorder in 1984 and took it to a few shows. Learned not to sing along. Had access to an early DAT machine starting in 1987, then took it to a show of a band I liked in fall of 1989, then a couple more tapes of them over the next few months. The band asked me to become their soundman the following spring, and I began recording every show so I could learn what I was doing, and create an archive for them, like game films of a sports team. Occasionally taped shows of other bands at clubs when I knew I would be allowed to. Got a good portable recorder several months after I quit mixing that band, and began taping live shows more often, including almost all of the shows I mixed.

2. What do you get out of it?

A sense of history- a taper friend and I founded the "Soundscape Preservation Society" in July 1991, in order to collect and preserve audio of events, especially those which might not otherwise be recorded. I take that quite seriously.

3. Do you trade studio releases or official releases the way you trade bootlegs and do Do you ever feel guilty? (giving away free music and all that jazz thats unaccepted in the "popular" music world)

Trade? No. Occasionally I will burn a commercial release for a friend if I know they would not buy it, but I think they should hear it. I mostly do this to introduce people to new music that they might not otherwise know to check out, and would surely not go buy without hearing it. I do not feel guilty about this, since I feel that it is educational, and therefore an extension of the fair use concept.

4. Do you think allowing fans to tape hurts or helps bands in getting bigger and gaining recognition

It does not hurt. It might help. I think that live recordings can give bands a small boost in fan numbers, but the people who make up the boost tend to become much more involved than average.

5. How much money have you invested in taping gear and has it been a benefit to you and your friends in the community or do you feel like it's a waste of money?

Never tried to count but it's gotta be way over $10,000 if you count blank media. Maybe close to that even if you don't?! Some of the gear is multipurpose though- is my Powermac "taping gear"? How about my other powermac? Soundcards? Software?   Of course I feel it's a benefit. I would not do it otherwise.

6. do you think taping shows increases the fanbase by getting people interested in the music for free, before they have to buy anything?

Sure. See #4.

7...does it also increase attendance at these mostly improvisational shows?

"mostly improvisational" - Uh, I tape all kinds of music, most is pretty structured. Even "jamband" music is mostly structured. In order not to dodge the question which I believe you intended to have me answer, I will say "maybe a little bit" but I KNOW that being able to listen again later increases the enjoyment of the folks who already enjoy the music, and tends to increase the numbers of such people. Do they buy concert tickets because of it? Dunno.

8. if these bands suddenly disallowed taping would it hurt there bottom line (money they make on tour and through record sales)

Maybe a little, and it would surely cost them much of the goodwill they gain by allowing taping.

9. and lastly, is this whole debacle just the dinosaur record companies grasping for straws in an era when technology has made them obsolete?

Debacle? You mean the RIAA suing the crap out of people for trading official releases? Industries tend to be very protective of their bread and butter, but it's up to the public to persuade lawmakers to make changes when injustice runs rampant. Traditional record companies have had to adjust to some new business models. Some do it better than others. The bands that are least bothered by the new systems are the ones who successfully utilize their grass-roots appeal, and let their fans spread the word. Allowing fans to record and trade shows is just one way of doing this.

Thanks for asking. I hope you will share your finished project with us. Best of luck and feel free to PM me if you have further questions.

[spreetaper]

Allowing taping and trading DOES take away from CD Sales.

It does? I'd say that's debatable.

I'd agree on this

regardless if bands allow taping or not
they have to realize that they won't make as much off cd/mp3 sales as they did in the past because everything is so readily available on the internet
they have to tour (ticket sales) and make money off of merc such as t-shirt sales
besides you can't have it both ways.. the internet helps you get your music out to the masses easily and helps create a fanbase..

my 2 cents anyways

[waltflanagansdog]

1. Why did you start taping?

Went to, and obviously still do, a lot of shows and noticed that there were never any tapers.  So I bought some gear and started taping here in Little Rock.

2. What do you get out of it?

Satisfaction that the bands I tape get their music out there, and it gives me an excuse to get out to shows more.

3. Do you trade studio releases or official releases the way you trade bootlegs and do Do you ever feel guilty? (giving away free music and all that jazz thats unaccepted in the "popular" music world)

On occasion.  I do what.cd, STMusic, and Libble.  Do I feel guilty?  Rarely.

4. Do you think allowing fans to tape hurts or helps bands in getting bigger and gaining recognition

I think it helps a ton!  It kills me that some bands, and their labels, don't allow it.  Band benefit from taping, it doesn't hurt their chances at selling albums in my opinion.

5. How much money have you invested in taping gear and has it been a benefit to you and your friends in the community or do you feel like it's a waste of money?

I have put about a total of $5000 over the years.  I think it's been a benefit.  At times the wife doesn't like it, but hopefully someone will hit it big due to our tapes.

6. do you think taping shows increases the fanbase by getting people interested in the music for free, before they have to buy anything?

YES!!  A local band I tape, and have for 5 years, has gotten a lot of fans from the recordings.  They sell CD's at shows and always take one of my recordings and give them away with a purchase. 

7...does it also increase attendance at these mostly improvisational shows?

The fanbase of the band I tape has gone up significantly over the past few years.  Is it all because of the tapes, probably not, but it hasn't hurt.

8. if these bands suddenly disallowed taping would it hurt there bottom line (money they make on tour and through record sales)

Yes.  We are a huge community.

9. and lastly, is this whole debacle just the dinosaur record companies grasping for straws in an era when technology has made them obsolete?

Yes.

[Brian Skalinder]

1. Why did you start taping?

I listened to a lot of live music recordings, but couldn't always find the concerts or bands of whom I wanted to hear live recordings, so finally decided I should just make my own recordings.

2. What do you get out of it?

The pleasure of <a> listening to the live music recordings, <b> sharing with the musicians and fellow music lovers, and (last but not least) <c> the process of experimenting with new recording gear, configurations, post-production, and playback gear and configurations.

3. Do you trade studio releases or official releases the way you trade bootlegs and do Do you ever feel guilty? (giving away free music and all that jazz thats unaccepted in the "popular" music world)

I do not trade studio or official releases the way I trade authorized live recordings (and hence feel no guilt).  Bootlegs - unauthorized recordings (some also say they must be sold for profit to qualify for the term "bootleg") - are another issue entirely.

4. Do you think allowing fans to tape hurts or helps bands in getting bigger and gaining recognition

Personally, I think it helps build a fan base, though plenty of people feel that's not the case.  I don't know of any specific study to suggest one way or the other, so this is just my personal perception.

5. How much money have you invested in taping gear and has it been a benefit to you and your friends in the community or do you feel like it's a waste of money?

I've spent far more money on the hobby than I'd ever anticipated when I started.  The whole process - not the monetary value of the gear - has brought benefit to me and others.  I don't feel like the money I've spent on the hobby is wasted.

6. do you think taping shows increases the fanbase by getting people interested in the music for free, before they have to buy anything?

Yes, to a degree.  Some music lovers will hear a free, live recording and decide to attend the band's live performance and / or buy a studio CD.  Others will rarely or never do either, as they're content with the free, live recording (though I believe this latter group wouldn't have attended the band's live performance or purchased a studio recording regardless of whether or not they heard the free, live recording).

7...does it also increase attendance at these mostly improvisational shows?

Yes.  See above.

8. if these bands suddenly disallowed taping would it hurt there bottom line (money they make on tour and through record sales)

I think so.  But again, not everyone agrees.

9. and lastly, is this whole debacle just the dinosaur record companies grasping for straws in an era when technology has made them obsolete?

Not sure what debacle, specifically, you mean.  But in general, I think the record companies have proven excessively slow at adopting to new technology and a new music business environment.

[69mako]

1. Why did you start taping?

I was unable to find recordings of a bunch of the shows I was attending.  (Spin Doctors Summerfest 1994 anyone?)  It was also great trading bait.

2. What do you get out of it?

Revive the experience of the concert any time I want.

3. Do you trade studio releases or official releases the way you trade bootlegs and do Do you ever feel guilty? (giving away free music and all that jazz thats unaccepted in the "popular" music world)

Never trade official releases

4. Do you think allowing fans to tape hurts or helps bands in getting bigger and gaining recognition

Definately helps exposure.

5. How much money have you invested in taping gear and has it been a benefit to you and your friends in the community or do you feel like it's a waste of money?

About $2300 for both rigs.

6. do you think taping shows increases the fanbase by getting people interested in the music for free, before they have to buy anything?

Yes, it's how I got into many bands I currently listen to.

7...does it also increase attendance at these mostly improvisational shows?

I don't know.  Taping it really a small hobby on the grand scheme of show attendees.

8. if these bands suddenly disallowed taping would it hurt there bottom line (money they make on tour and through record sales)

I don't think it.  The shows would still be recorded.

9. and lastly, is this whole debacle just the dinosaur record companies grasping for straws in an era when technology has made them obsolete?

?

Thanks,
Mako

[jlykos]

1. Why did you start taping?

Because nobody else was recording Corrosion of Conformity shows or anything cool like that.

2. What do you get out of it?

Glory, a path of rose petals strewn before my feet, and 77 virgins waiting for me in Heaven

3. Do you trade studio releases or official releases the way you trade bootlegs and do Do you ever feel guilty? (giving away free music and all that jazz thats unaccepted in the "popular" music world)

No and no.  I feel guilty about the plight of the Darfurians and about the lack of action among developed countries toward their situation.  I feel guilty that I am one of the reasons why the U.S. constantly lags behind the rest of the developed world on mathematics and science ability.  I feel guilty for participating in a Presidential election where the best our great country had to offer was Bush and Kerry.  I don't feel guilty for turning people on to music.

4. Do you think allowing fans to tape hurts or helps bands in getting bigger and gaining recognition

Depends.  If the band is really good, like the Grateful Dead, it of course helps.  If they suck balls like, say, Jack Johnson, they may gain popular support, but they are condemned to critical Hell by people like me.  If they are like 99% of the "jambands" in the world, no amount of giving away their music will help because they are high-school jazz band music rejects and will end up like Beatle Bob in a best-case scenario.

5. How much money have you invested in taping gear and has it been a benefit to you and your friends in the community or do you feel like it's a waste of money?

Right now, about $4,000.  It has been a total waste of money.  I mean, I torrent Cephalic Carnage shows.  The money I plow into my taping system helps bring about the decline of Western civilization: the same civilization that produced Socrates, Henry James, and Miley Cyrus / Hannah Montana.  It is obviously a negative return, if anything.

6. do you think taping shows increases the fanbase by getting people interested in the music for free, before they have to buy anything?

The Pirate's Bay and Mininova do that job just fine.  Taping shows accomplishes nothing.

7...does it also increase attendance at these mostly improvisational shows?

I have been trying to increase attendance at mostly improvisational shows in my bedroom for years to no avail, so I would say no.

8. if these bands suddenly disallowed taping would it hurt there bottom line (money they make on tour and through record sales)

Their trust funds would not be augmented by the potential extra income of concert attendance, T-shirt sales, and the like.  Then again, staying on the road with an unsuccessful business venture could deplete these band members' trust funds to a level where they would be forced to "get a haircut and get a real job," thus contributing to our country's tax base and ensuring that Social Security and Medicare still have some money left over for my retirement.

9. and lastly, is this whole debacle just the dinosaur record companies grasping for straws in an era when technology has made them obsolete?

No, the record companies are flailing about in the tar pits just fine by themselves, thank you very much.

Thank you so much y'all! much LOVE xoxo.

Really?  Pasta, wine, and a night under the stars in Yerevan.  You can feel it.  Let's boogie.

[willndmb]

Hey guys. The land of PT sent me here because they thought you'd be able to help me out a lil bit!

I have a research paper that's based upon the free music sharing throughout the jamband community and kind of why it's so accepted by the artists themselves, etc...

soo if you wonderful people are feeling like you'd like to help me out by answering the following, it'd be greatLy appreciated!!!

1. Why did you start taping?

i got a few live shows and enjoyed them
thought it might be fun to try myself

2. What do you get out of it?

i ended up really enjoying it and it has opened me to other good music as i have gone out and taped things for people i normally might not have gone and seen

3. Do you trade studio releases or official releases the way you trade bootlegs and do Do you ever feel guilty? (giving away free music and all that jazz thats unaccepted in the "popular" music world)

i try not to do it although i have 2 times before when i was broke

4. Do you think allowing fans to tape hurts or helps bands in getting bigger and gaining recognition

helps

5. How much money have you invested in taping gear and has it been a benefit to you and your friends in the community or do you feel like it's a waste of money?

currently i am around $1500
i have been as low as $650 and as high as $2000
as a whole people could do without me but i an mot doing it for others really

6. do you think taping shows increases the fanbase by getting people interested in the music for free, before they have to buy anything?

yes

7...does it also increase attendance at these mostly improvisational shows?

early on yes
after they are known not really but it doesn;t hurt them either

8. if these bands suddenly disallowed taping would it hurt there bottom line (money they make on tour and through record sales)

some yes
some bands i go see because i can tape
with gas and everything i would cut back on who i go see if i couldn't tape them too

9. and lastly, is this whole debacle just the dinosaur record companies grasping for straws in an era when technology has made them obsolete?

Thank you so much y'all! much LOVE xoxo.

yes
record companies are just trying to save their ass most of the time
if a band is good and they allow taping its not hurting them even if the label claims it is

[kbergend]

1. Why did you start taping?

I love live music, and I thought it would be wonderful to be able to relive good concerts and share them with other fans who couldn't attend.  I was right.

2. What do you get out of it?

Great music, satisfaction for a job well done (when it goes well), free exposure for some of the little-known artists I tape, the gratitude of friends, and occasional free concert tix.

3. Do you trade studio releases or official releases the way you trade bootlegs and do Do you ever feel guilty? (giving away free music and all that jazz thats unaccepted in the "popular" music world)

No, I don't trade or give away official releases.  Musicians are entitled to be paid for their music!  In fact, I sometimes buy extra copies of commercial releases by my favorite artists to give as gifts and I feel a little guilty when I buy CDs used.  The only exception for me are mixes of studio tracks by various artists I like, which I will occasionally make and give away to try to get other people interested in their music (often leading to some of those people becoming fans and buying their albums).

I don't feel guilty at all about giving away artist-sanctioned recordings, why would I?  Sometimes a little about stealth (unauthorized) recordings, but those usually go out to just a few trusted friends. 

4. Do you think allowing fans to tape hurts or helps bands in getting bigger and gaining recognition

If they're not very well known and they usually do an outstanding show, it definitely helps.  If that's not the case, probably not so much.

5. How much money have you invested in taping gear and has it been a benefit to you and your friends in the community or do you feel like it's a waste of money?

About $7000 over five years, a little over half of which I paid for gear I'm still using.  Some of the remainder was "wasted" in the sense the gear didn't live up to my expectations, but you live and learn.  You can usually find a buyer for stuff you no longer want thanks to this website and eBay, I've probably recovered about $1500.

6. do you think taping shows increases the fanbase by getting people interested in the music for free, before they have to buy anything?

In many cases, yes.

7...does it also increase attendance at these mostly improvisational shows?

In many cases, yes.

8. if these bands suddenly disallowed taping would it hurt there bottom line (money they make on tour and through record sales)

If the band is already well known with an established following, probably not.  Some bands have changed their policy and disallowed taping (and sometimes started selling their own live recordings) after they became popular.  I feel very grateful to the ones who haven't!

9. and lastly, is this whole debacle just the dinosaur record companies grasping for straws in an era when technology has made them obsolete?

What "whole debacle"?  I think you may be laboring under a misconception -- taping isn't about avoiding paying for music like the old Napster, it's about being able to hear live music that otherwise wouldn't be available.  I own (and paid for) most of the commercial live releases from the bands I've recorded.  Aside from supporting the artist, a professionally miked and mastered mixdown from 16+ channels is likely to sound better than anything I can do.

[setboy]

1. Why did you start taping?

I wanted to have live shows of some local bands, as well as having a copy of all of the shows i go to.

2. What do you get out of it?

well, the smart ass thing to say would be recordings.

3. Do you trade studio releases or official releases the way you trade bootlegs recordings and do Do you ever feel guilty? (giving away free music and all that jazz thats unaccepted in the "popular" music world)

No and No

4. Do you think allowing fans to tape hurts or helps bands in getting bigger and gaining recognition

don't know. i think it doesn't really do either. But then again i do go see band unheard just because i can tape.

5. How much money have you invested in taping gear and has it been a benefit to you and your friends in the community or do you feel like it's a waste of money?

about 2000-2300. not a wast of money

6. do you think taping shows increases the fanbase by getting people interested in the music for free, before they have to buy anything?

see 4

7...does it also increase attendance at these mostly improvisational shows?

hard to say

8. if these bands suddenly disallowed taping would it hurt there bottom line (money they make on tour and through record sales)

I don't think it would much.

9. and lastly, is this whole debacle just the dinosaur record companies grasping for straws in an era when technology has made them obsolete?

maybe a little bit.