Topic: Completely green, and rig advice needed!

[Niteromantic]

Hello all!
This is my first post in regards to a subject that I have great interest in, but have no knowledge about.  I figured before I spent money I didn't need to I would ask some veterans here. for their advice.

I am new to taping, and just bought my first recorder, a Roland R-05.
I took it to a Rush show not too long ago and taped. Although I did what I could with getting it in there and having no mics etc, I got the results I was expecting-way too much bass.

Anyway, id like some advice-maybe someone here can point me in the right direction. Heres what I'm looking at currently:

I have the Roland Edirol R-05..and thats about it.
I attend rock shows and usually in the closer sections, arenas, and sometimes theaters.
I am looking for a rig that is transportable, stealthy, and easy to set up-but then again I guess we all are.

Price isnt so much of a problem as long as I can get some clean pulls at the shows. I was wondering aloud just now...is there a way to get external mics and not use a bettery pack? I'd like to get away with that setup if the mics can do ok on the power from the recorder itself.

Lastly-thanks for taking the time to offer me your advice. I look forward to hearing from all of you,
K

[su6oxone]

Price isnt so much of a problem as long as I can get some clean pulls at the shows.

First off, welcome to the board and taping! 

How much is your price range?  It can range from under a hundred to even over $10K so a more specific range would help us with giving you recommendations.   

[fmaderjr]

I was wondering aloud just now...is there a way to get external mics and not use a bettery pack? I'd like to get away with that setup if the mics can do ok on the power from the recorder itself.

Some recorders like the older R-09HR and the Sony M10 have been found to power some mics adequately with plug in power and no battery box including the Church Audio C-11's and mics based on the AT-853 capsules. The Marantz PMD620 will power most mics fine with plug in power. Of course this might not work well with quiet stuff-you might need an external preamp to make an adequately noise free recording.

As to your R-05, not many users have yet posted here and to my knowledge it has not been tested at loud shows running mics with plug in power and no battery box yet. Someone has to be the Guinea Pig, so if nobody responds that they have done it successfully, you could get one of the mics that works with the R-09HR and see how it works with your R-05.

[acidjack]

While some recorders can power external mics off of plug in power, absent having a modification done to the recorder itself (which will cost about as much or more than a battery box, and invalidate your warranty), you are probably best off with a small battery box, assuming you record loud rock music.  If you record quieter music, you may also want a small preamp instead.

As others already pointed out, a bit more specifics about your intended application and price range would be helpful.  And what kind of sound you like in mics.  The default response to your question on here, assuming you don't want to spend more than a few hundred bucks, is always to tell people to buy the Church Audio CA-11 mics, but they are not necessarily the preferred mic of everyone, especially depending on the factors I mentioned.

[rockymtnryan]

I would love to jump in here as I am in the same situation.  Been doing a bunch of research and trying to put the pieces together of an affordable rig.  I love AKG's but they are out of my price range right now so I'm looking at Peluso cemc6's.  I'm thinking of picking up an M-Audio Microtrack II so I can patch out of someone until I get the rest put together.  I really like the low cost and the ease of use reviews.  With mics and a recorder narrowed down I need advice on preamps/adc.  And help would be appreciated.  I'm trying to keep things around $1000-$1200 or so.  Right now.....

Stereo matched pair of Peluso cemc6 $679 from Frontend Audio
http://www.frontendaudio.com/Peluso-CEMC6-Matched-Microphones-p/9999-00402.htm

M-Audio Microtrack II $199 from Frontend Audio
http://www.frontendaudio.com/M-Audio-MicroTrack-II-Digital-Recorder-p/9999-01739.htm

As for preamps/adc I would really appreciate some advice, and I'm trying to keep the cost under a few hundred.  I was reading about the UA-5 but it seems to be discontinued.  A friend uses the Naiant Littlebox and likes it.  Basically looking for something affordable that sounds nice and offers S/PDIF out s I can go digital direct into the Microtrack II.

Thanks!

[fmaderjr]

General consensus here is that the Microtrack is not reliable.
Plus $199 is too much to pay for it.

May would disagree, but I wouldn't worry about an ADC. I would get a Littlebox preamp ($200-$300 depending on the options selected) http://www.naiant.com/naiant/microphoneamplifiers.html and go analog in to a recorder such as the Sony M10. That would sound great with any mics and I doubt if you'd hear a difference if you were running an external ADC.

[newplanet7]

Get a set of Busman mics.
The set comes with a set of each cap. Cardioid, Hyper, Subcard, and Omni.
That runs around $450.
http://www.busmanaudio.com/bsc1.html
He is a member here but not on here as much as he used to be.
Then either grab an all in one recorder, or get a pre & recorder.
Naint Littlebox and m10 seem to be pretty respected and more importantly TESTED
around here passing with flying colors.

What AKG mics were you looking at getting?
460's might be in your price range.

[rastasean]

Many would disagree, but I wouldn't worry about an ADC. I would get a Littlebox preamp ($200-$300 depending on the options selected) http://www.naiant.com/naiant/microphoneamplifiers.html and go analog in to a recorder such as the Sony M10. That would sound great with any mics and I doubt if you'd hear a difference if you were running an external ADC.

solid advice. if you want a recorder with digital coaxial in, you'll have to spend a few hundred dollars on a marantz recorder and several more above that price range.
the naiant line is great because they are handmade and you can have it configured in many different ways.

don't forget you'll need cables, stands, bags, hardware adapters, clamps, and money for shows.

enjoy.

[rastasean]

Get a set of Busman mics.

how do you think the busman compare to a pair of the avant avantone ck-1 microphones? two completely different sounds?

[rockymtnryan]

General consensus here is that the Microtrack is not reliable.
Plus $199 is too much to pay for it.

May would disagree, but I wouldn't worry about an ADC. I would get a Littlebox preamp ($200-$300 depending on the options selected) http://www.naiant.com/naiant/microphoneamplifiers.html and go analog in to a recorder such as the Sony M10. That would sound great with any mics and I doubt if you'd hear a difference if you were running an external ADC.

Is the Naiant offered with an S/PDIF out option?  If so, that would be great.

[rockymtnryan]

Get a set of Busman mics.
The set comes with a set of each cap. Cardioid, Hyper, Subcard, and Omni.
That runs around $450.
http://www.busmanaudio.com/bsc1.html
He is a member here but not on here as much as he used to be.
Then either grab an all in one recorder, or get a pre & recorder.
Naint Littlebox and m10 seem to be pretty respected and more importantly TESTED
around here passing with flying colors.

What AKG mics were you looking at getting?
460's might be in your price range.

My favorite mics are the AKG 483's, just love the sound.  But for under $700 for a matched pair of Peluso cemc6 mics, with hard case, shock mounts, hard mounts, and wind screens is a really apealing deal.  And I like how they sound.

[newplanet7]

Get a set of Busman mics.

how do you think the busman compare to a pair of the avant avantone ck-1 microphones? two completely different sounds?

I think they are very similar, chris mods the ck1's on the avatones I think.
I think chris just upgraded his caps for the busman line also, so they are probably sounding
less alike these days.
I was going that route, for the busmans, before I got my first pair of akg's.
I was also going to go the busman route before I got my second pair of AKG's, the 460/ck1's I have now.
I love them a lot and they will be keepers.

[newplanet7]

Get a set of Busman mics.
The set comes with a set of each cap. Cardioid, Hyper, Subcard, and Omni.
That runs around $450.
http://www.busmanaudio.com/bsc1.html
He is a member here but not on here as much as he used to be.
Then either grab an all in one recorder, or get a pre & recorder.
Naint Littlebox and m10 seem to be pretty respected and more importantly TESTED
around here passing with flying colors.

What AKG mics were you looking at getting?
460's might be in your price range.

My favorite mics are the AKG 483's, just love the sound.  But for under $700 for a matched pair of Peluso cemc6 mics, with hard case, shock mounts, hard mounts, and wind screens is a really apealing deal.  And I like how they sound.

Nice.
Not trying to talk you out of anything but if you like the akg sound there is a set of c460b's with a set of ck3 hypers
in the yardsale right now for 600. I think you'd be pleased with that.
I have samples of an MMW show that I taped with 460ck3 combo.
60' from the stage DFC
Medeski Martin And Wood
http://home.comcast.net/~newplanet7/Mysamples/mmw2009-11-13s1t0601.mp3
http://home.comcast.net/~newplanet7/Mysamples/mmw2009-11-13s2t0401.mp3
http://home.comcast.net/~newplanet7/Mysamples/mmw2009-11-13s2t0101.mp3

EDIT FOR YS LINK: DREW IS GOOD PEOPLE TOO.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=136372.0

[setboy]

Get a set of Busman mics.
The set comes with a set of each cap. Cardioid, Hyper, Subcard, and Omni.
That runs around $450.
http://www.busmanaudio.com/bsc1.html

I believe you can also buy some upgraded caps for the busmans aswell.  Check with busman.

great mics for the price either way 

[newplanet7]

I believe you can also buy some upgraded caps for the busmans aswell.  Check with busman.
great mics for the price either way 

I'm sure that's the case. It's what I was referring to in my previous post

I think they are very similar, chris mods the ck1's on the avatones I think.
I think chris just upgraded his caps for the busman line also, so they are probably sounding
less alike these days.