Topic: Digital MD transfer using home MD deck?

[BradM]

I have a stack or so of MiniDiscs that I want to transfer (and more coming, likely from a band I know who'd like me to do some transfers and uploads for them), and I was wondering what the best way to do it would be.

Originally, I would just hook the headphone out of my recorder (Sharp MD-MT15S) to the line-in on my soundcard, and use its analog recording capability. This required levels to be set and monitored, and relied on the (maybe not-to-great) A>D conversion of my sound card.

Recently, I've been hooking the headphone out of the recorder to the inputs of my Edirol UA-5, with its optical output going to my Nomad JB3, and then from there to my PC (via SB1394 from the JB3 to my Soundblaster). While the A>D is better, it still requires levels to be set and monitored.

I saw a listing for a Pioneer home MD deck (MJ-D707), and it's got an optical digital out, so I'm thinking that if I could get it for a reasonable price, I could use it for purely digital (optical) transfers, either to the PC (I have the "breakout" faceplate with all the connectors) or to the JB3 (and from there to the PC).

First up, is this a good idea? For convenience, it seems like it is, as hooking up the MD to the UA-5 to the JB3, then sitting there and starting/stopping it while I get the levels set correctly gets really old, really fast. But am I right in thinking that I'll get the same kind of output from the MJ-D707 as I would from the UA-5 (i.e., what could be dumped directly to a 44.1kHz 16-bit stereo WAV file on the JB3)? Will I run into any problems with SCMS? I don't think I would if the MDs were originally recorded from an analog source, but what about those that came from a digital source?

Any help/advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Brad

[boojum]

I have a SONY N1 and an RH1.  I thought of getting a home deck with optical connections for just this reason.  As for setting levels: set them low.  You can always raise them through normalizing or some other method once on your computer.

As it stands now I can UL to my PC digitally using the RH1.  It will UL even legacy discs providing they are not commercial.  So, your question, I would do the optical.  Xferring with the mid-analog step is not all that bad either.  If you did not record in WAV format to begin with it might not make much difference.  Try a test and see what you think.

Cheers

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

I've done DAT>JB3 transfers straight thru the optical, I think that's the best way for you too.

Assuming the MD Home Deck outputs 16/44 PCM, the JB3 will "lock" onto that and you won't have to worry about anything, especially levels, the JB3 will record the same exact levels (as opposed to recording an analog signal (MD>analog output>AD convertor>JB3.

You could use your UA5 as a ADC, and use it to adjust levels...  But do the straight digital transfer and make any corrections with Audacity or something - it'll be easier...

T

[ilduclo]

I'd try to note the loudest part of the show, then try to set levels to this. I think if you set them too low and then normalize, it will be very hissy!

[BradM]

Assuming the MD Home Deck outputs 16/44 PCM, the JB3 will "lock" onto that and you won't have to worry about anything, especially levels, the JB3 will record the same exact levels (as opposed to recording an analog signal (MD>analog output>AD convertor>JB3.

Thanks! That's exactly what I was figuring.

Aloha,
Brad

[Petrus]

I have done a lots of optical digital transfers from a Sony desktop MD player to an upper range SoundBlaster card. Easy with no quality loss, basically just a digital copy.

[sunjan]

Recently, I've been hooking the headphone out of the recorder to the inputs of my Edirol UA-5, with its optical output going to my Nomad JB3, and then from there to my PC (via SB1394 from the JB3 to my Soundblaster). While the A>D is better, it still requires levels to be set and monitored.

I saw a listing for a Pioneer home MD deck (MJ-D707), and it's got an optical digital out, so I'm thinking that if I could get it for a reasonable price, I could use it for purely digital (optical) transfers, either to the PC (I have the "breakout" faceplate with all the connectors) or to the JB3 (and from there to the PC).

First up, is this a good idea? For convenience, it seems like it is, as hooking up the MD to the UA-5 to the JB3, then sitting there and starting/stopping it while I get the levels set correctly gets really old, really fast. But am I right in thinking that I'll get the same kind of output from the MJ-D707 as I would from the UA-5 (i.e., what could be dumped directly to a 44.1kHz 16-bit stereo WAV file on the JB3)? Will I run into any problems with SCMS? I don't think I would if the MDs were originally recorded from an analog source, but what about those that came from a digital source?

***My misconception about the UA5 edited***

Hi Brad,

First of all, we had a lenghty discussion about MD transfers earlier this year, and there are two different standpoints on how to achieve the best result:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,76899.0/all.html
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,89560.0.html

Like Boojum said: if you have a lot of money or a good friend with an RH1 (aka M200), this unit is the sh*t, since it's the only one that will upload without further loss:
http://www.mdcenter.nl/artikelen/mzrh1/index_en.php

Depending on your hardware, these are your best options:
1. RH1 > USB > computer (no need to fiddle with settings during transfer, since you're actually not re-recording. You'll work out the levels in post!)
2. MD deck* > optical cable > bit perfect soundcard (24bit if possible) with optical in> computer (UA5 lets you output 24/96 PCM if needed. Some believe that 24/96 is still worthwhile even though the MD is only 16 or 20 bit, let your ears decide.)

*If you have to go the MD deck way, try to get one with the later ATRAC chip (type-R/S). This was discussed extensively in the thread above. Older ATRAC versions have inferior DSP and can even introduce a threshold on high frequencies:
http://www.minidisc.org/minidisc_faq.html#_q33

The Pioneer deck has an older ATRAC chip from 1998, which means you'd be better off getting a later deck:
http://www.minidisc.org/part_Pioneer_MJ-D7+D707.html

If you have an UA5 and can run USB in, there's no need at all to involve the JB3 or your soundcard in the PC. Those are both inferior to the UA5. No need to worry about SCMS either, if these are non-commercial disks, there's no protection

+T for transferring good old MDs!

/Jan

Boojum: I really don't get it why you'd want a home deck if you already have the RH1. You can upload much faster and change the settings in post, so why take the detour?

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

Good reads:

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,76899.0/all.html
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,89560.0.html


2. MD deck* > optical cable > UA5 > USB > computer (UA5 lets you output 24/96 PCM if needed. Some believe that 24/96 is still worthwhile even though the MD is only 16 or 20 bit, let your ears decide.)

If you have an UA5 and can run USB in, there's no need at all to involve the JB3 or your soundcard in the PC. Those are both inferior to the UA5.

When you input a D into the UA5, it goes through a DAC before going back through the ADC.  So its not a true digital transfer.  I'm not sure how this is "inferior" to a straight digital transfer from an optical out of the home unit into the optical in on the JB3.

Terry

[sunjan]

2. MD deck* > optical cable > UA5 > USB > computer (UA5 lets you output 24/96 PCM if needed. Some believe that 24/96 is still worthwhile even though the MD is only 16 or 20 bit, let your ears decide.)

If you have an UA5 and can run USB in, there's no need at all to involve the JB3 or your soundcard in the PC. Those are both inferior to the UA5.

When you input a D into the UA5, it goes through a DAC before going back through the ADC.  So its not a true digital transfer.  I'm not sure how this is "inferior" to a straight digital transfer from an optical out of the home unit into the optical in on the JB3.

Duh, I didn't know that. My bad! :-(
+T for clarifying.
After reading up on the earlier posts, this a built-in flaw in all Edirol products, right?

So the lineage would rather be:
2. MD deck* > optical cable > [other bit-perfect soundcard, or bit bucket (JB3/H1xx etc)] > computer

I saw some other posts about good value soundcards, but I guess that goes beyond this discussion. So by all means, go with the JB3 for your optical MD transfers...

/Jan

[BradM]

If you have to go the MD deck way, try to get one with the later ATRAC chip (type-R/S). This was discussed extensively in the thread above. Older ATRAC versions have inferior DSP and can even introduce a threshold on high frequencies:
http://www.minidisc.org/minidisc_faq.html#_q33

The Pioneer deck has an older ATRAC chip from 1998, which means you'd be better off getting a later deck:
http://www.minidisc.org/part_Pioneer_MJ-D7+D707.html

Thanks for that (and for the lineage clarification, which is how I was planning to do it anyway), it was something I didn't know. (I've also done some more searching, and found later decks with optical out, often for less money.)

Aloha,
Brad

[boojum]

Boojum: I really don't get it why you'd want a home deck if you already have the RH1. You can upload much faster and change the settings in post, so why take the detour?

Actually I would not go via home deck.  I am sorry if I gave the impression I would.  With the RH1 it is an easy deal.  I am very happy with the RH1 and with a set of MM-HLSC-1's or SP-CMC-4U's it shines.  I will be using the SD this Friday and Saturday but will take the peewee setup along to tape another performance at the same time. Or maybe the same performance just to see how it compares to the other rig.

I know few agree, but I think the MD is an unfortunately underrated platform.  It is rugged, compact, has very good pres and records in WAV format.  All in a package smaller than a pack of smokes.  disclaimer: I am a SONY whore.

L8R