Topic: Small and cheap multi-track home studio rig?

[beeco]

Like many folks here, I've been asked occasionally to records local friends' bands in a studio-type setting, mainly for coming up with demo tape material, mp3's to post on myspace, etc. I've done one group's entire album live, in my living room, which was fun but naturally it was super hard to get the mix right with 6 people arranged around a stereo pair.

So I'm contemplating trying to put together something to learn the multi-track process and I have this old dual processor G4 Mac that a friend gave me (running OS X 10.4). I've also got a home-built PC box that I can load with Windows XP. I've also got a new, unregistered copy of Steinberg Cubase Studio 4 that I need to either use or sell. I'm looking for a way to record 8 tracks to the Mac/PC simultaneously. I could buy a Korg D888 all-in-one 8-track deck for around $600-700, but that's out of my budget for this project. A MOTU box would be perfect, too, but is too expensive for me.

I want to start light and cheap. I was looking at the Alesis Multimix USB (the used multimix 8 channel is cheap on ebay) or maybe a Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 (hard to find used) either of which, combined with the quality pre's accessible to me, would give me 8 channels of input to the DAW.

Then I started looking at the old Digidesign Digi 001, which has only 2 XLR inputs but would allow 6 more line ins. I can get running on the old G4 for under $200 if I buy the old Digi 001, complete with Pro Tools LE 6.1 (which I then have to learn how to use). Looks like I need more cashish to get a decent interface that I could run on an XP box, not to mention that my XP box would need some upgraded parts anyway (like a USB 2.0 PCI card).

So I'm looking for input from anyone who has tried this at home and anyone who has experience with the Digi 001. Is there any compelling reason to NOT get started learning with the Digi 001? Seems like I can take that old Mac, add a cheap used interface with included Pro Tools and start 8-tracking in my living room, and that seems like a better possible solution than adding to my windows machine and still having to buy an interface.

Any thoughts?
Thanks!
Bevin

[Shadow_7]

What are you baseline goals?  You could get by with say an M-Audio Mobile Pre (2 channels @ 16/48) and some mics.  Or something like a zoom H4n for roughly the same abilities less a computer.  Or something more extensive.

# of channels?
sampling rate(s)?  16/44.1 or 24/96 or ?
budget?  (mics + stands + cables + room treatment + (the rest of the chain))

My current options (although I don't have a proper space to use it well in).

soundcard(s):
- M-Audio Mobile Pre (2 inputs / 2 outputs)
- M-Audio Delta 44 (4 inputs / 4 outputs)
- Korg MR-1000 (2 inputs / 2 outputs / but it doesn't multitrack)

preamp(s):
- Korg MR-1000
- Sound Devices MM-1 (x2)

Mic(s):
- Audio i5
- Avenson STO-2 (x2)
- giant squid eletrets (wouldn't use them really, but in a crunch, or for effect)

Cable(s):
- mogami XLR -> XLR x4 (2x 25' + 2x 15')
- radio shack TRS -> TRS (4x 6')

Extra(s)
- Radio Shack mic stand (tripod base)
- Proline boom arm
- Presonus HP4 headphone preamp (monitor attenuation and headphone outs)
- Senn. HD 280 headphones
- RCA -> TS adapters
- 1/8" -> 1/4" stereo adapters
- OnStage stereo bars (T-Bar) (x2)
- other gadgets

Software???

A small sampling of what you'll need.  It gets costly quickly.  The advantage of multitracking is that you can get by with fewer mics + cables + stands.  The disadvantage is that you're doubling your time (at a minimum) to get a result.  I prefer to just do a live 2 channel capture.  Much cheaper, much quicker, and it's all that most people seem to want anyway.

[beeco]

Thanks for the suggestions, Shadow_7.

My baseline goal is to be able to record 8 discrete channels of input simultaneously. And to be able to do that at 24/96 if desired.

I've got access to several nice 2-channel preamps, including my own and a pair of V3's, a V2, and a Schoeps VMS02b, and I must own at least 6 or 7 pairs of microphones as well as having access to several other pairs (460's, CMC6's, etc), so on the gear side I have enough front-end hardware to outfit a small band, including a small army of stands and cables.

My weak link, and the thing I know nothing about, is the interface between the preamps and a computer - either a G4 or a windows box - and how to operate it. Since I've got a full blown copy of Cubase Studio 4, I could go the windows route with the right interface, or like I mentioned, I could get an old Digi 001 with a copy of ProTools LE and get rolling on the Mac G4 for less than $200.

Everything in the multi-track realm will be a new learning experience, so the learning curve on Cubase or ProTools (an older version) would be the toughest part of this process. I don't know which software tool would be easier to learn, but ProToosl seems to be more universal.

I'm stuck on whether to go Windows or Mac and on which interface to use that isn't going to break the bank. It seems that with the Digi 001 I'd get going for less $$ if I went with the Mac. But I know nothing about the Digi 001 interfaces so I'm looking for feedback specifically on that unit if anyone has experience. 

The M-Audio Delta is probably a viable alternative that I haven't researched yet. My recent experience with the Korg D888 left me thinking I'd need 8 simultaneous channels, but for all I know that's overkill once you master the gear and the software.

Thanks again for your suggestions!

[Shadow_7]

There's a zoom ?16 (R16?) that does 8 inputs independent of a computer.  The inherent problem with multitracking is that you need isolated headphone outs for each input.  Some of which desire a custom mix.  Computer wise USB is fairly limited(2 channels).  Firewire can do 8 or more (presonus firepod / MOTU)  pci can do 16-24 and other options. 

The more tracks, the more realtime filters/effects, and such, the faster / better computer you'll need.  Multitrack does allow you to do 2 tracks at once though.  1 input / 1 output.  i.e. bare minimums.  It is essentially the long road, but results end up basically the same.  So you don't have to pop for a $5K interface with preamps and the likes.

The delta is one options, but it's what got me into all of these accessories.  It's ONLY 4 inputs (TRS only) and 4 outputs (TRS only).  The delta 66 being 6x of those same.  The issue being, no cables to connect, no headphone preamp to convert to 3.5mm (1/8") for output, no preamps for input.  Not even RCA for your typical cheapy speakers / stereos.  Good in that all your bucks goes toward converters.  Bad in that all you get are converters.  (ADC / DAC).  Decent ones, but that's ALL you get.  An echo Layla 3G or similar might be better suited for more common purposes.

[heyitsmejess]

i have an alesis multimix8 (the usb 2.0 version).

i run 8 channels into a net book @ 32/44.1, and it works flawlessly! (granted, i run zero inline plugins...i do all that in post)

4 channels w phantom. 4 channels with out phantom.

and, theres an rca input that will pass on as an additional 2 tracks.