Topic: USB (ASIO based?) audio input device - could I get some recommendations?

[Brennan]

Hey TS,

I need a really good USB audio input for my laptop. Right now, I'm running just Church-Audio Cards with an 1/8" plug. I have a Church-Audio 9000 preamp as well, but the reason I need the USB interface is so I can get a SBD and AUD recordings.

I plan it like so: Board feed > 9000 preamp > Edirol R-09 (for the soundboard), and Church cards > USB interface > Laptop (for the audience).

The other night I grabbed an M-Audio MobilePre and tried for about 2 hours to get it to work (installed drivers, etc.) but could only get intermittent signal to say the least. I'm not sure if it didn't get enough USB power or what, but I tried everything I could including plugging the mics in with an 1/8" > XLR and using phantom power. No idea why, but I could never get a good signal out of it.

So, with that in mind that I'm going Church Audio Cards > ? > Laptop (Audition 3, or Ableton Live , what do you recommend?

I'd like 24/48 at least and low-latency. You know what I'm saying, you're tapers yourselves.

I'm thinking a possible Christmas present here (haha).

Thanks guys!

[12milluz]

Hey TS,

I need a really good USB audio input for my laptop. Right now, I'm running just Church-Audio Cards with an 1/8" plug. I have a Church-Audio 9000 preamp as well, but the reason I need the USB interface is so I can get a SBD and AUD recordings.

I plan it like so: Board feed > 9000 preamp > Edirol R-09 (for the soundboard), and Church cards > USB interface > Laptop (for the audience).

The other night I grabbed an M-Audio MobilePre and tried for about 2 hours to get it to work (installed drivers, etc.) but could only get intermittent signal to say the least. I'm not sure if it didn't get enough USB power or what, but I tried everything I could including plugging the mics in with an 1/8" > XLR and using phantom power. No idea why, but I could never get a good signal out of it.

So, with that in mind that I'm going Church Audio Cards > ? > Laptop (Audition 3, or Ableton Live , what do you recommend?

I'd like 24/48 at least and low-latency. You know what I'm saying, you're tapers yourselves.

I'm thinking a possible Christmas present here (haha).

Thanks guys!

You ran Church with 48V phantom power off that interface   you need to use a battery box for the church mics before the interface but you cant use the phantom power on the interface, you probably fried the mics!
I would go Church mics into 9000 to the R-09 and then get an interface for the laptop to take the SBD feed as its probably better suited to the line inputs on that box.
A box like the Presonus Audiobox or the ART Dual Pre (which is on sale at Musician's Friend until this evening) would work for the interface.

[ArchivalAudio]

things are better now with USB2 but Firewire was always the way to go.
but USB may still choke- I found even with firewire there are so many potential issues with running a laptop for live recording that it might be better to use some sort of non moving part drive ie flash based recorder and sync the two sources later
get another edirol or an m10 then run both sources separate then mix in post you likely have better results and spend less cash.

--Ian

[rastasean]

http://sounddevices.com/products/usbpre2.htm

 

[sunjan]

I'm all with 12milluz here.
CA mics are designed for 9V. If you have a Church pre, it makes no sense to break up that combo.

I'd run CA mics>CA pre>R-09 for audience, and SDB>USB interface>laptop.
The advantage is also that the audience rig would be 100% portable, so you could technically place it with a buddy and put him in the sweet spot.

I agree with Ian. If all you need is a line in device for SDB and have $2-300 to spend, you would probably achieve more consistant results buying an Edirol or M10 than a USB soundcard. That is, unless you want to use the soundcard for other purposes too.

What's your budget?

[georgeh]

I was hoping on here to search for an USB transfer for my DAT's to Laptop, so I guess this is similar?
http://www.zzounds.com/item--MDOFTRACKPRO
 the m-audio is what i am leaning towards. I got a new laptop, but no card slot for my Xpocket, so I guess i need to go with usb2 option. thhis one seems to be what i need and th right price, any other suggestions? seems we are looking for somewhat the same thing here

[Brennan]

To reply to everyone - I've wanted to use the laptop for a while t record. Just seems way easier to monitor the waveform live, etc. And hell, 8 hours of battery you can't beat.

There isn't really a dead-set reason to use a USB interface, I'd just like to. It seems faster to not have to later transfer the files. You can just record, edit, post. Done...you know?

My budget is probably max. $150. Let's say I get some Studio Projects C4s. I'd power them with the Art Dual Phantom. Would the Art Usb Pre then be a good choice to go into the laptop?

If I stick with the Church mics and pre, it seems I have 2 choices. One, I can go Church mics > Church pre > R-09 (aud) and Board > Art Usb Pre > Laptop (sbd). Two, I can go Church mics > (1/8"->XLR adapter) Art Usb Pre > Laptop (aud) and Board > Church pre > R-09 (sbd).

I think the second sounds better but I don't know. Of course, if we toss in the C4s it's a whole different ballgame...

with that in mind...any new thoughts?

PS - Checked the mics....phew, they're fine. What the hell was I thinking?!

[sunjan]

Two, I can go Church mics > (1/8"->XLR adapter) Art Usb Pre > Laptop (aud)
...
Board > Church pre > R-09 (sbd).

Both of these suggestions are flawed.

Like I said earlier, you need to power the Church mics with 9V. If you connect them to an USB sound card, they will either receive P48 and fry, or they won't be powered at all.

And for the the board feed, you already receive line level, so why run the signal through a preamp in the first place?!
That said, surely you could go Church mics>Church Pre>USB sound card>laptop. The ART USB would probably be OK.

[ArchivalAudio]

so - more info:
Laptop recording is a crap shoot at best. sometimes it works awesome! sometimes not!
ALWAYS record to an External drive!
I have had varied results recording to a laptop, and had too many shows that see to be rolling fine but after I got home realized there were multiple errors
this with a 7200 rpm internal  drive, and also trying another external drive-
watch out for the dreaded "hard drive too slow" error message - recording stops and if you catch it you you can restart it quickly. turn off all other functions and your internet connections, run only the recording soft ware and have a huge amount of space  to record to. some software writes temp files, some writes the wave as your record.  Draggin around a lappy and other assorted gear.  if you are planing on running Phantom with your USB - it will severely drain your lappy battery. I lugged around a 12v SLA (Sealed Lead Acid) battery to power my Motu this worked great  you might try a 9VDVD battery if you can power the unit alternately (not just by USB)- but even with  a high capacity battery and dimming my screen all the way  the iBook battery would only last about 2 hours in the field (4 hours not recording)

honestly your be much better off buying a small flash based recorder - keep your current rig for the AUD portion and run the SBD on another unit  transfer via a card reader- its done in a minute or two.
sync both sources mix in post. either way your still want to record 4 tracks or 2 stereo pairs and mix in post.
if you have 2 recorders running then if one fails you still have the other....
of get a dedicated 4 track recorder such as the R4 ( you may still get the dreaded "Hard Drive Slow" message - Sine the R4 is NOT flashe based and has a moving hard drive) or R44
anytime you can record via non moving parts the better.
While I have not owned  a huge plethora of gear - I do "work" at festivals where I have the opportunity to run all sorts of gear, and have seen first hand what errors may occur, with the 24+ years of live music Archiving (Recording) I have experienced.

remember anything that can go wrong will go wrong - at one time or another....

ther is a laptop recording yahoo group that has not been very active in the past 3 to 4 years- for good reason- most have move to dedicated 4 or more channel recorders.

good luck
--Ian

[ArchivalAudio]

PS
I use to think this same thought as well:

It seems faster to not have to later transfer the files. You can just record, edit, post. Done...you know?

however you will find that is not always the case- especially if your files are corrupt or you get a "hard drive slow"!
save your cashe and get something better suited
for giggles here is a like to an R-44 in the YS (no affiliation) http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=140402.0

peace
--Ian

[ArchivalAudio]

 If you are still set one it
I just realized that Mackie came out with one recently...
come with their software  they make reliable gear
check it out here:
http://www.mackie.com/products/onyxblackjack/
http://www.soundonsound.com/news?NewsID=12978
less  than $200
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Blackjack

[12milluz]

If you are still set one it
I just realized that Mackie came out with one recently...
come with their software  they make reliable gear
check it out here:
http://www.mackie.com/products/onyxblackjack/
http://www.soundonsound.com/news?NewsID=12978
less  than $200
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Blackjack

I think I read a review of that in Recording magazine and it's supposed to be really really good. Apparently it's built like a tank!

[acidjack]

It really is true ... for audio recording, it is likely going to save you money and heartache to just use standalone devices intended for audio.

Reminds me of this one time two of us were recording a show.  At the time I just had a small rig (AT 853s>R-09HR) and my friend was running Neumanns+SBD into an R-44.  In the meantime, these jokers from some college radio station were there also recording.  They proceeded to tell us how bad-ass they were and how knowledgable and amazing they were about recording because they do in-studio interviews and sessions occasionally.  They had all kinds of gear - a Macbook Pro running logic, a 24-track standalone digital mixer, and some Nak300s on a stand (placed totally incorrectly, of course)... oh and a video camera.  Their mics weren't anything great but it was still a way more complex rig than we had.

About five-ten minutes into the show I remember looking over and seeing them frantically pointing at each other and the screen, trading the headphones back and forth, hitting all manner of combinations of keys.   

Turns out their bad-ass computer recording system crapped out, and they didn't properly attenuate these amazing 24 tracks of audio anyway... so they wound up the night asking if, uh, maybe we'd be nice enough to let them "use the audio" from the R-44 pull...


It's a parable about several different truths in recording, but I think one is, sometimes simpler is better, esp now that a $99 deck can do what you want it to do.

[ArchivalAudio]

if you are still looking to go the laptop route
I found this demo deal at sweetwater on the mackie onyx- blackjack
only $159
a heck of a deal!
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Blackjackd

[runonce]

Hey TS,

I need a really good USB audio input for my laptop. Right now, I'm running just Church-Audio Cards with an 1/8" plug. I have a Church-Audio 9000 preamp as well, but the reason I need the USB interface is so I can get a SBD and AUD recordings.

I plan it like so: Board feed > 9000 preamp > Edirol R-09 (for the soundboard), and Church cards > USB interface > Laptop (for the audience).

Ok - assuming USB interfaces actually work...none of that makes sense.

Why not use a single USB interface and record all sources via one interface...? I dont get why you want to make two recordings???

I see USB devices that advertise 8-10 channels over USB...why bother with anything else?

I think there are success stories/threads involving inexpensive netbooks and USB interfaces...

As much as I hate the LCD screen at a gig - it seems to work...better and better.