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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: wiiawiwb on July 18, 2016, 08:16:35 PM
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Hi folks. I've read through a number of threads and found some excellent information. I'm looking at getting a recorder for evening wildlife activity when I backpack. It's something I would leave out at night and retrieve within 24 hours but probably no more than 10 hours. It would be left in areas where there is no human traffic to complicate any background noise. Ideally, a recorder that when played has the least amount of background noise so I can concentrate on sounds recorded by animals of the night.
I've never owned a recorder and can only draw upon what I've read not what I've experienced. I'm willing to spend up to $300 for one. Without benefit of experience, if I had to choose, I'd be looking at the Sony M10 and the Zoom H5. I've read that some Zooms have a background noise so I'd default to the M10 knowing nothing else.
Does anyone have a suggestion or recommendation.
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For exhaustive opinions on this subject, I suggest the Nature Recording Yahoo Group. I believe a lot of people speak highly either of the Sony you Mention or the Olympus LS series.
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Also worth linking up with the Wildlife Sound Recording Society (http://www.wildlife-sound.org/) - there is a lot of useful info. on theirwebsite.
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I am not a wildlife recordist, but will offer this FWIW. I think the M10 may be discontinued. Outstanding battery, life, menu and sound. 1\8 stereo input limits you from using xlr mics that require phantom power.
If you intend to use dpa 4060 mics powered by a battery box, m10 is perfectly suited to this.
Another option in the same price range would be a tascam Dr 70 with four xlr inputs. You would need an external 5v cell phone battery to achieve the kind of run times you want. It has built in omni mics to get you started until you acquire some external mics.
Your choice in large part depends on what mics you want to use.
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I suspect you are correct about it being discontinued. I just pulled the trigger on it and will match up speakers once I get a better sense of how it sounds with the internal speakers. Thanks for your help.
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I think the Sony PCM-D100 is the best all in one recorder for wildlife recordings. It has a very low noise floor, but it is also very expensive so might be out of your reach. The M10 is not too bad, and a lot cheaper, but I always take my D100 out for nature recordings.
A good alternative would be to get hold of some Primo EM172 capsules, which have a very low noise floor, and build some DIY mics for just a few dollars. You could then use these with a battery box to provide 9v, straight into the M10 or similar.
Check out some of my comparisons here:
https://soundcloud.com/quisquose
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The M10 seems like an excellent choice for what you do-- very quiet preamps and the little thing will run WELL over 24 hours on a pair of lithiums. I'm not sure how well the internal omni mics will work in your case but they are are poorly suited for most live music situations.
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If the m10 has been discontinued, there will be a seller's market for used ones.
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The reason I didn't want to go for a more expensive unit is that I want to place two units a quarter mile apart when I'm out backpacking. That way I have twice the opportunity to get a recording of wildlife. I plan on trying the units just as they are with a Redhead windscreen and listen to how it sounds.
What would be a reasonable external microphone to get if I decide I want or need one? Kindly remember that i have two sets to buy here so cost is a factor.
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I just made a windscreen from some kind of fluffy fabric, elastic band, and fabric glue from the local fabric shop. No point in spending more than necessary.
I am not at all sure which mics to suggest. The self noise is much more a factor in wildlife recording than music recording.
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What would be a reasonable external microphone to get if I decide I want or need one? Kindly remember that i have two sets to buy here so cost is a factor.
As I suggested above, build your own using the Primo EM172 capsules. You can get the mics ready assembled if you are not confident with a soldering iron.
Take a listen here: https://soundcloud.com/quisquose
The advantage of using cheap external mics like this is not just better sound, but that you can hide your recorders and keep them waterproof. You won't get too upset if the mics get damaged by rain.
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Great suggestions about the Primo EM172 capsules. Sadly enough, I am not handy whatsoever and buying the parts would be a complete waste. I would screw things up and that money would be down the drain.
Does Church Audio make microphones that would be suitable for the wildlife and do they use the Primo EM172 capsules?
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I think the Sony PCM-D100 is the best all in one recorder for wildlife recordings. It has a very low noise floor, but it is also very expensive so might be out of your reach. The M10 is not too bad, and a lot cheaper, but I always take my D100 out for nature recordings.
The PCM-D100 is certainly a good choice. But its certainly NOT "very expensive", in fact it is pretty inexpensive.
When people go out doing wildlife recording with recorders such as a Sound Devices or AETA 4MinX, which cost several thousand, the PCM-D100 is very cheap by comparison (and I am still talking amateur wildlife recordists).
The Fostex FR-2LE is also an excellent choice for wildlife recording at an affordable price.
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I would have gotten the PCM-100 but it would not be practical in my situation. I'll be backpacking in equipment and recording as an ancillary activity. I will be buying two setups which I will locate separately and double my chance of getting some night-time, wildlife audio. Take the PCM-100 then add mics, and anything else needed, and then double it. I'm brand new to this and know squat about recording equipment. It would simply not be prudent to be dropping that kind of money into something I know nothing about nor have any experience by which to guide my decisions.
I'll start with the M10 and relatively inexpensive microphones. If I enjoy the results I'm getting, and want to improve them, then Hell's bells...I'll buy better equipment.
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My speculative guess is that the internal mics may be as quiet as any low cost external microphones. I'd try the internal mics before spending more money.
It could be interesting to pair the recorder with a game camera, but I understand they tend to get stolen?
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That is exactly what I plan on doing. I'll be getting a Stealth Cam G42 (or G45) No Glow trailcam. It would be very interesting to be able to marry the video and audio from separate sources to really see what's going on.
I've heard the same thing from many people; namely, that trailcams get stolen. Mine will be out over night and retrieved the next morning. Those that get stolen are typical out for a long duration.
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tl:dr Try just the M10's internal mics first. You will likely be pleasantly surprised by the quality and ease of use.
I'm not an expert, but I've been using an M10 for a similar purpose: quick fieldrecordings while traveling. I've found the internal mics to be pretty good for this use and would suggest experimenting with them first before trying external mics. Be sure to get a furry windscreen.
By comparison: I have stereo lav mics from Microphone Madness based on Panasonic WM61 capsules which offer nothing over the internal mics. (Their primary use for me is as a simple setup for recording two person research interviews that are intended for transcription.) I also have a pair of Naiant XR cardioid capsules, which are better than the internal mics (especially with Phantom Power via my MixPre rather than the 3v PiP of the M10), but they are more prone to handling and wind noise and require more care in placement and set-up.
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I own a Sony M10. The built-in mics have excellent self-noise, which is of primary importance for ambience or most wildlife recording. However their soundstage is terrible, not surprising considering how close the omni caps have been placed. I cannot easily enjoy any recordings made using them. The solution is external microphones. And yes, it is true that this model has been discontinued.
Someone above mentioned the Olympus LS series of recorders, which are indeed my favourites. I own the LS-10 and LS-11. There's also the LS-5 in this line, and the only significant difference is how much internal memory they have, and the packaged accessories. There was a bass roll-off issue with the LS-10, but TBH it never bothered me as I was likely to do this in post anyway. Unfortunately these too have been discontinued.
Do not confuse these with the LS-12 and LS-14, which have plastic build and poorer, though still very good, pre-amps. Yes, I've got one of these too! They are excellent units for beginners, due to the Quick Mode recording setting. I first took this for a gimmick but it really helps setting record levels. Also, they sell cheaper than the discontinued models used to.
Forget the Olympus LS-3 and LS-7 which are tiny but more noise again.
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Great suggestions about the Primo EM172 capsules. Sadly enough, I am not handy whatsoever and buying the parts would be a complete waste. I would screw things up and that money would be down the drain.
Here in Europe several people sell stereo electret pairs made from the Primo EM172 caps. For many it's a hobby, so availability can be sketchy.
Audiotalaia Pro (http://www.audiotalaia.net) is made in Spain and costs €60 including wind shields. Disclosure: I endorse these on the website. But only because I am a happy customer.
Usi (https://zvukolom.org/product/usi-microphones-pre-order/) is based in Bratislava. The mics are made by Jonáš Gruska and sels out faster than hot-cakes (€90). Disclosure: I am currently testing some of his other products.
Micbooster Clippy (http://micbooster.com/primo-microphone-capsules/65-clippy-em172-microphone.html) is £55 and, y'know, comes with a clip.
Luhd PM-01 (http://www.luhd-mics.com/store/p16/PM-01Binaural.html) are £79 and look real nice.
The Primo EM172 based mics are definitely the best value for the money. They are quieter and more expressive than any of the built-in sets on portable recorders, and the Panasonic WM-61 caps. You gain versatility in placement. They conveniently run off the stereo minijack PIP (Plug-In Power).
To do "better" you need to spend a grand on a pair of DPA4060 and move up to phantom power.
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To echo Robin's comments: the minimal stereo image is definitely the biggest shortcoming of the M10's internal mics. The flexibility in stereo arrangement/placement is the primary factor in my considering that the Naiant's (or other external mics) are "better".