Topic: Stand upgrade - taller / sturdier

[voltronic]

Right now I'm using the cheap Ravelli 10' stand after finding it recommended here.  It has generally been fine, but it's not totally stable at full extension.  I no longer feel comfortable with my original plan of adding height with an extension pole.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003TM600U/ref=pe_175190_21431760_M3T1_ST1_dp_1

I'm looking for something both a bit taller and significantly sturdier, especially for peace of mind when doing multi-mic setups.

This 12' Manfrotto seems to get a lot of praise here:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/644444-REG/Manfrotto_1004BAC_Alu_Master_3_Riser.html

I'm also interested in these two variants of the Impact 13', although I'm not wild about the fixed 1/4"-20 stud - would prefer the added strength of 3/8"-16.  Never used an Impact product so not sure if it's a quality upgrade from what I'm using or not.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/253066-REG/Impact_LS_13HB_Heavy_Duty_Light_Stand.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/253065-REG/Impact_LS_13HAB_Air_Cushioned_Heavy_Duty.html

I've looked all through the other similar stands at B&H and they are either too expensive or I don't have any bearing on the quality of the brand.  Does anyone have experience with the stands I linked or others that are good?  I also considered pairing the shorter Manfrotto stand with a 099B pole to get around 15' tall for not too much more money, but then I have to carry two things with me all the time.  With my current stand, I'm always running it at max height out of necessity.

[2manyrocks]

Adding to the above questions--when you get up past 12', is it necessary to add weights to the stand for increased stability?

[JusTapin]

You wouldn't be at all disappointed with the 12' Manfretto.  It's solid, strong and great quality. Mine survived some pretty severe winds with 3 others clamped on at the Gorge this year.

I also carry the Manfrotto - 3-Section Extension Pole (35- 92") for a little more flexibility in setups and added height when needed.

[stevetoney]

I'd go for the manfrotto since you're specifically looking to upgrade and IMHO they have the best name in the business so you should be happy.  My only comment is why pay the extra 30 for the stackable design?  Seems like I've seen $70 or $80 13 footers from Manfrotto.  I have a 15' Manfro and it's really solid.  Blows the other three stands I have out of the wawa.

2manyrocks...I don't think added weights can ever hurt, but I'd say the quality of the stand, its footprint and its overall robustness are bigger factors to stability than weights.  I have a couple of stands that suck and weights won't help stabilize them.  They're on the junk pile of stuff I take to festivals for my emergency stands, but I won't sell them to anyone else even though they work fine because they're garbage...I wish others would do the same.  I bought one of these in the YS and I'm kinda bummed one person would pass this stand off to someone else on this list, but that's beside the point.   At indoor venues, duct tape is as effective as weights.  Outdoor, most people use stakes.  (If others are taping, please remember not to pound your stakes in until after the set is over.)

[voltronic]

I'd go for the manfrotto since you're specifically looking to upgrade and IMHO they have the best name in the business so you should be happy.  My only comment is why pay the extra 30 for the stackable design?  Seems like I've seen $70 or $80 13 footers from Manfrotto.  I have a 15' Manfro and it's really solid.  Blows the other three stands I have out of the wawa.

From what I'm seeing, the stackable design is the only way that stand is made.  I also am not finding any of the 13' stands you mentioned, and their 15' stand is over $300!  I would love to have a 15', but that's crazy.  Maybe you have a discontinued model?  If you let me know what it is maybe I can find a used one.

BTW, was your last sentence intended to be an inside joke for us here in PA?

[stevetoney]

OK you're right. Just checked and my stand is manfrotto 3364 which is a 13 footer.  They say the one you linked to is its replacement.  I didnt realize they'd gone to this price point.  Sorry for earlier misinfo...but yeah I do think this is a great stand.  Very sturdy and robust. If you did go with it I know you wouldn't be disappointed.

[voltronic]

OK you're right. Just checked and my stand is manfrotto 3364 which is a 13 footer.  They say the one you linked to is its replacement.  I didnt realize they'd gone to this price point.  Sorry for earlier misinfo...but yeah I do think this is a great stand.  Very sturdy and robust. If you did go with it I know you wouldn't be disappointed.

Thanks!  I just found two possible winners on eBay. 

Your 3364 (with a female thread stud?): http://www.ebay.com/itm/Manfrotto-Light-Stand-3364-/221631580254?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item339a45885e
15' Calumet / Manfrotto 053B: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Calumet-053-053B-15-Light-Microphone-Stand-Made-in-Italy-by-Manfrotto-Used-/271698922788?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f42848d24

The 053B looks very attractive for just over $50 shipped, but I'm wondering about the strength of those locking latches vs. the knobs.  The fact that Manfrotto no longer uses them on any of their stands seems significant...

[stevetoney]

^ I can't give you any insight on the Calumet other than that would be a concern of mine as well.  It's hard to tell from the pics, but it looks to me like the Calumet wouldn't be in the same weight class, if you will, as the other one.  Looks like the top telescoping piece is fairly small diameter.  I don't want to bias your decision too much when its hard to see what's actually being sold, but one of the tall stands I have that I really don't like at all, has lots of telescoping sections...maybe 6 of them...and by the time you get all of the separate sections out, with the upper sections being kinda thin (i'd guess 1/2 inch in diameter), the mics just really aren't all that stable at the top.  When you put an umbrella up there, if there's any wind at all my mics are swaying way more than I want them to.  Last year, I had to bring my mics down below 10 feet.  I mean, even with the 3364, I will get a little bit of sway, but I'm not nervous about it coming down like I am with that other stand. 

The point here is that IMHO the taller the stand you want, the larger the diameter the sections I'd be looking for...and it's not necessarily better IMHO for a tall stand to fold down into a smaller, shorter package.  FWIW, I don't really don't have any problems with the size or weight of that 3364.

[voltronic]

OK, that sounds like good advice.  I think I might bid on that 3364 and if that doesn't work out, I'll go with the 1004BAC.  Thanks!

[aaronji]

I am using the Manfrotto 1004BAC and have been for some time now. It's a great stand, but you can get pretty substantial sway at the top, at least with a heavy load at full extension (like a 154B and a pair of mics, maybe a second pair in the center). Before the Manfrotto, I had a K&M 20811. That thing was rock solid and went well over four meters. I loved it, but it was really big and heavy (over twenty pounds, I think). I go to a lot of shows by public transport, so it was just too much, but the 1004BAC is a compromise. Manfrotto has a big heavy one too...I would consider the K&M if size and weight aren't constraints.

[myke2241]

OK, that sounds like good advice.  I think I might bid on that 3364 and if that doesn't work out, I'll go with the 1004BAC.  Thanks!

just a note: i purchased the Manfrotto 1004BAC three pack last winter. i love the stands but they shipped locked together and one of the tabs was damaged. So those tabs can break if they are dropped while locked together.

[voltronic]

^^^All great advice, thanks!  I actually just purchased the 1004BAC last night from an eBay seller (new) for a bit less than what they go for at the usual places.  I would expect anything but serious heavy stands like Atlas or Latch Lake to sway a bit with a heavy load at extension, but it sounds like the Manfrotto is still going to be an upgrade from what I have.

[voltronic]

Also, at some point I might pick up a 099B extension to get up to 20 feet.  Wouldn't do that with anything but 1 pair of mics though, and definitely not with the split omni bar.

[voltronic]

1004BAC came today, and the build quality is definitely a huge step up from what I was using.  I see where the locking tabs would be a weak point though, as myke said.  I won't get to try this out for real until mid-January, but so far I'm glad I made the purchase.

[stevetoney]

1004BAC came today, and the build quality is definitely a huge step up from what I was using.  I see where the locking tabs would be a weak point though, as myke said.  I won't get to try this out for real until mid-January, but so far I'm glad I made the purchase.

Glad to hear the good news.

[2manyrocks]

Thanks for the thoughts on using weights vs. tape or anchors.  Had to resist the thought of bringing a cordless hammer drill + tapcon concrete anchor screws to the next event.

One thing that affects stability is the overall play in the joints.  I have one stand that is pretty rigid, but can't find the brand name on it. 

There's a detailed PDF file on GS by Lotus7 on how to build a carbon fiber tube extension for the Manfrotto Voltronic just bought.  https://www.gearslutz.com/board/remote-possibilities-acoustic-music-location-recording/845555-ultra-lightweight-mic-stand-extension-diy.html

[StarkRavingCalm]

I've been considering upgrading my stand also.

I recently bought the following for clamping situations and love them.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/33185-REG/Matthews_429499_Telescopic_Baby_Stand_Extension.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/33142-REG/Matthews_426016_Baby_Stand_Extension.html

Should I buy a stand I could extend with the items above or go with a FULL stand?

There was recently some talk about people cutting down the legs to reduce the footprint (I forget which thread).
I think I like that idea as long as it can still handle the height\weight.

Also hoping to get out at a reasonable price.

Thoughts?

[carlbeck]

A few things, cutting down the legs will make it less sturdy, I've cut the legs in the past on my fob stand & it was noticeable. Adding an extension would make it even worse I think. I have two smaller stands, a 7 ft & 10.5 ft that are made by Impact plus a Manfrotto extension pole, I've been considering just buying a good Manfrotto stand that does 12 ft so I have less to carry & better quality, the Impacts are ok at best, the Manfrotto stands are much higher quality & worth the price. Just my two cents but I run two pairs of full body mics at a time with one set possibly being my 414's, if I were still running actives I wouldn't mind the Impacts as much.

[2manyrocks]

Glad to see a response from an actual user.  My thought was that a screw on extension would not likely be as stable as a telescoping section in a regular stand.  My impression is some cut stand legs to fit a stand in between seats.  If anchored to a seat or something, I guess it works. 

[carlbeck]

Actually the extension is pretty solid, between my two stands it does seem a little better on one over the other though. I can't figure out if it's because of the diameter of the stands or the actual stud, I was just messing it with it this weekend testing to see whether I wanted to buy a new stand or not. For now I'm sticking with the extension but I still think a regular stand is more stable fwiw. As far as chopping the legs for theater seats, again due to some testing this weekend I've decided to stick with my clamp on the arm extension pole combo. I did buy about $350 in assorted clamps, hardware & articulating arms this weekend to make sure I'm covered for every possible scenario without having to run a stand between seats.

[2manyrocks]

$350--sounds like a lot, but anything sold to photographers is priced sky high. 

I feel better about clamping to some solid object than when I just have my stand.  When using a stand, I try to sandwich it somewhere where it's not likely to be knocked over or someone trip over it.  A stand is like a wookie magnet. 

[carlbeck]

It was a lot to spend but I wanted to make the investment so I didn't have to worry about being in a venue where I wish I had this clamp or arm to get my mics where I want them, the peace of mind was worth it to me but of course I'll probably still end up in a situation where if I only had this little doodad I'd be exactly where I want to be. Regardless I think I've got it pretty well covered at this point.
Yep, the stands seem to attract the wooks plus you're always guarding the legs & bag hoping it doesn't get accidentally kicked while people walk past, again peace of mind. If I can clamp I will every time, helps me enjoy the show knowing my gear is safe. Back to the topic though, for ease of use & stability buy one of the larger Manfrotto's, it's worth the extra few bucks over the Impacts IMO.

[todd e]

i'm personally curious as to your need to hoist microphones that high?  is it a venue specific requirement?

i've just never understood flying mics that high, the soundguy (while he may be high) isnt mixing for that point in the room (or at least I'd hope not.)

[2manyrocks]

In recording classical music, the main pair of mics is usually pretty high just behind the conductor to capture the overall sound with the least noise from the audience and other distractions. 

Recording rock shows with stacks of PAs--this makes no sense because the loudest source at the microphones is going to come from the stacks of speakers. 

Where you put your mics in a particular situation depends on the situation.

[carlbeck]

I rarely run my stuff much past a foot over people's heads but I like the stability a larger stand provides when its not fully extended, especially when running a pair of full body mics & LD's at the same time.

[voltronic]

Update - I've now been able to use the 1004BAC a few times at full height.  GREAT stand, and fits beautifully in the lacrosse stick back DigiGal recommended.  I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better stand in the 12ft range for the price.