Topic: Oade R44 super Mod vs Concert Mod

[spcyrfc]

anyone used this?  how is it with amplified music as compared to the ACM
thanks.


from Oade Faq ---- http://www.oade.com/Tapers_Section/faq-general.html#C2
Edirol R44 Super        Minimum Signal Level - 52dBV

Edirol R44 Concert       Minimum Signal Level - 50dBV

i assume there are correspondingn maximum signal levels?

[kbergend]

I haven't actually used it, and you can email Doug Oade to confirm, but I think the gain structure on the Super Mod will be too sensitive for loud amplified concerts.  It's really intended for nature recording and acoustic music.

He doesn't offer the same ACM on his Concert R-44 as on the R-4, by the way.  He told me there's just not enough room in the R-44 to use the same components, and Chris Busman made a similar comment recently.  I haven't noticed a difference personally, although I've only done a few shows with the R-44 so far and never tested them head to head.

[jim1274]

I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on the R44.  My leaning is toward the Oade Concert mod for my uses (living room recording of vocal/harmonica and acoustic guitar and some noisy bar live recording).  Maybe I should have started a new thread of Concert vs Stock, but I'm really struggling with the whole mod vs. no mod issue.  This seems to be a hotly debated issue.  Anyone have any further thoughts on the this particular choice?  The cost is only about 100 bucks more than the cost for a stock one from other sources, so even modest improvement seems cost effective.  Others have said "Do not mod any recorder before knowing exactly what you want to change about the sound."  The problem is, Oade won't mod used rigs, so I either get the mod now based on Forum feedback or just live with a stock unit.  My main reservation is the warranty issue--goes from the manufacturer warranty to a 90 day from Oade.  That is not a deal breaker, but it seems rational to factor that into the decision.  Doug Oade has been very gracious in answering my questions, so everything else being equal, I'd much prefer to send him my business. 
 

[flipp]

I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on the R44.  My leaning is toward the Oade Concert mod for my uses (living room recording of vocal/harmonica and acoustic guitar and some noisy bar live recording).  Maybe I should have started a new thread of Concert vs Stock, but I'm really struggling with the whole mod vs. no mod issue.  This seems to be a hotly debated issue.  Anyone have any further thoughts on the this particular choice?  The cost is only about 100 bucks more than the cost for a stock one from other sources, so even modest improvement seems cost effective.  Others have said "Do not mod any recorder before knowing exactly what you want to change about the sound."  The problem is, Oade won't mod used rigs, so I either get the mod now based on Forum feedback or just live with a stock unit.  My main reservation is the warranty issue--goes from the manufacturer warranty to a 90 day from Oade.  That is not a deal breaker, but it seems rational to factor that into the decision.  Doug Oade has been very gracious in answering my questions, so everything else being equal, I'd much prefer to send him my business. 
 

Unless he has changed his policy recently, Doug will modify units originally bought from him. If you buy a stock unit from the Oades, use it for awhile then decide you want it modded, Doug will do so. What he won't do is modify units that he didn't originally sell. With this policy, it gives you time to get used to the sound of a stock unit, then change the sound at a later date if you want/prefer something a little different.

[dmonkey]

I have yet to hear a comparison of a mod versus un-mod unit -- that would be very interesting. All I have to say is that I'm VERY pleased with that sounds I'm getting out of my concert mod R-44.

[jim1274]

Thanks for the feedback.  I'm waiting to hear back from Doug on a stock unit--did not see those listed for sale among the various options.  Sounds like at least I can give him my business either way--like to be loyal to those who help me and not just use for info then do business with someone else to save a couple bucks.  I'm guessing it will be more than just the added cost of shipping each way to do the mod later, but no way of telling since Doug has no prices for stock units listed.  I'm surprised nobody has done a test of mod vs. no mod on this unit.  I suspect that if bought stock, it would stay stock.  It is probably going to sound so good to me stock that I won't consider a mod.  Heck--I was BLOWN AWAY by the sound of some crappy mic preamps in an old beaten (EV, I think) sound reinforcement mixer run into the mic/aux mini jack in my cheap laptop!   I'm really getting excited!  Like a kid, er, middle age man at Christmas!  I love this forum!  Joking around is OK, I hope....but I am excited about this!   ONE recording session and I am addicted already....

[hoserama]

I have yet to hear a comparison of a mod versus un-mod unit -- that would be very interesting. All I have to say is that I'm VERY pleased with that sounds I'm getting out of my concert mod R-44.

Me too

[TNJazz]

I'm looking forward to giving mine a workout in the next month or two.

It's kind of fun getting back down to 2-4 channel recording.  The big multitrack stuff was starting to get a little stressful!

[jim1274]

Doug Oade has been generous enough to send me several emails right at the holiday season.  I'm repaying the personal service by buying from him. Period.  The cost difference is very small between a stock and Concert mod unit.  I know this whole mod issue is debated, but since I'm NOT considering buying it stock from the low-ball online supplier, this seems like a no-brainer to get the mod unit.   He addressed my warranty concerns, which leaves me at:

Anybody make a case for a stock unit over a Concert mod (for gig taping and some living room "studio" work) given the mod is only 55 bucks over a stock unit from him?  I appreciate the comments on starting stock and mod down the line, but given the small price premium, it seems smart to get the "hot rod" right from the start.

[Will_S]

Doug Oade has been generous enough to send me several emails right at the holiday season.  I'm repaying the personal service by buying from him. Period.  The cost difference is very small between a stock and Concert mod unit.  I know this whole mod issue is debated, but since I'm NOT considering buying it stock from the low-ball online supplier, this seems like a no-brainer to get the mod unit.   He addressed my warranty concerns, which leaves me at:

Anybody make a case for a stock unit over a Concert mod (for gig taping and some living room "studio" work) given the mod is only 55 bucks over a stock unit from him?  I appreciate the comments on starting stock and mod down the line, but given the small price premium, it seems smart to get the "hot rod" right from the start.

Well, if you're happy to spend $55 on a modification that apparently no one has bothered to evaluated via a direct comparison against a stock unit, and don't mind voiding your warranty, why not?  I mean, it's only $55 plus the factory warranty on an $850 piece of equipment, right?

Just make sure you're really happy with the new warranty situation, and that it won't bite you you know where later on.  I don't mean to foster FUD, but it might be worth considering the situation with the Marantz PMD620.  At some point, a firmware upgrade was released that caused no problems the vast majority of the times it was installed.  But once in a blue moon, it rendered the upgraded machine a useless brick.  If you still had a Marantz warranty, no problem, they would take care of it as it was their problem.  But if you had a modded unit, you were out of luck.  Marantz wouldn't touch it, and Oade couldn't fix it / wouldn't pay to replace it.

But I applaud you for rewarding good customer service with a purchase rather than getting all your questions answered and then buying from the cheapest place online.  Maybe that's worth a $55 tip as well and crossing your fingers on the warranty.

[nottingham]

Will, that is not necessarily acuate. I had a PMD 620 with a full warranty, was upgrading to the new firmware and it never booted up again. Sent it in and they would not take care of it, told me 250.00 to replace the board.

I have bought a lot modded gear from Doug to custom gear he built just for me, now thankfully I have not had a problem with any of my gear, but I feel Doug would take care of his customer base as well or better than any of the manufactures out there.

[Will_S]

Will, that is not necessarily acuate. I had a PMD 620 with a full warranty, was upgrading to the new firmware and it never booted up again. Sent it in and they would not take care of it, told me 250.00 to replace the board.

Huh, I stand corrected.  I heard from someone else that Marantz would take care of it on warranteed decks.  Did you press the issue at all with Marantz?  Did they try to claim it was user error etc?

[nottingham]

They told me I must have interrupted power during the process, and yes I did press the issue. I wrote a letter to them and the sales department to no avail. I made them ship it back to me and I sent it to Doug for research and development.

[jim1274]

Boy, this hardware selection is a lot trickier than expected.  I figured this would have been debated and evaluated to death here, with charts and graphs etc...  

Doug told me "To date I have not had one R44  problem" and "keep in mind I burn in the decks I upgrade first to insure they are in good working order. As they have no moving parts( no transport to handle tape), they rarely fail'.

But....

That Marantz story makes me take pause.  You make a very good point there--never thought of that angle.  I'm a newbie here, but have had enough gadgets over the years to have done more than a couple firmware updates, and know that can be risky at times.  Brick is the term, I believe.  

I REALLY want to be a respected member of this forum, and feel obligated to buy one from Doug after bugging him several times around the holidays--not like he probably didn't have plenty of other things to do!  Not sure if I got 50 bucks worth of help over the online deep-discount option, but whatever--I'm still planning on getting SOMETHING from him at this point.

Your post is making me lean back toward the stock option.  I need to DECIDE and put this to bed.  Still need to finalize my mic deal, scope out mic cables, a sturdy mic stand, mic mount bracket, and who knows what else to get started (the point of all this--RECORD!).  This has been a very interesting process, but the equipment spec part is a lot of work for a newbie starting from ground zero--6 days ago I could even find the right end of the my mic boom  to put the mic bracket on!  Heck, 6 days ago I was trying to run a $40 Shure mic into my laptop aux in to "practice" before my musician friend came over to record!  Good thing he brought over what was needed to get the signal into my laptop....talk about feeling STUPID.....  

And now I'm in the middle of a debate on equipment mods...this gets interesting quick!!!!

Thanks to you and everyone who has weighed in on this R-44 stock vs. mod---this is a wonderful group here.  

I have until 2PM ET to order a Concert mod R-44 from Doug for shipment Monday---he didn't say if a stock one could still go out today.

[rastasean]

Why don't you find out if you can hear the difference between a non modded R44 and a modded one before buying.
There's a fringe group of us here who think the mods don't really do anything. There's another fellow--Chris Busman--who mods R44s, Fostex FR2LE, and other recorders but no one has really been to correctly identify a modded against a non-modded unit.

This is in regards to the Fostex FR2LE but have a read about what other people state about the oade mod:
http://www.fostexusa.com/mercuryboard/index.php?a=topic&t=4084

I find this particularity interesting:
I have made no attempt to upgrade the headphone amp...

So you would not even be able to tell how well the mod is done until you listen through your stereo or better yet Doug's stereo.

Good luck!