Topic: What's next from Sony?

[colargol]

Hi!

I'm excited to see when and what Sony comes up with next... They've come out with some quite nice phones and other stuff lately, and it's been quite a while since their latest audio recorder came out.

PCM-M10 - October 2009
PCM-D50 - March 2008 (?)
PCM-D1 - ? 2007 (?)

I'm very happy with my PCM-M10, but I am eager to see if they can top that one... I have tried several other brands, but for my purpose Sony always seems to have the better product...
I guess no one here knows anything?

-colargol

[F.O.Bean]

I am very curious too. Who knows what will come out next

[H₂O]

A video recorder?


They haven't come out with a PRO level audio recorder since the D1 and before that was the d10 pro ii (which dates back to early to mid 90's)


Sony's efforts seem to be more in video realm

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

I'm pretty happy with the M10 but if I'd like to see what they could come up with for a 4 channel recorder with at least 2 channels of phantom power.

I like my DR-680, but if I could run 4 channels with the reliability of the M10, I'd be a happy man. I'm always a little edgy about running the DR-680 (although personally I've never had a problem with it).

[F.O.Bean]

I'm pretty happy with the M10 but if I'd like to see what they could come up with for a 4 channel recorder with at least 2 channels of phantom power.

I like my DR-680, but if I could run 4 channels with the reliability of the M10, I'd be a happy man. I'm always a little edgy about running the DR-680 (although personally I've never had a problem with it).

I always thought the dr680 was finicky, and it was for awhile, but after recording next to tonedeaf and his 680, I would have no problem running one. This fall I'm def going to get a dr680 so I can run mk4/mk41 comps easily

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

Yep. Even though the DR-680 has a rep for being finicky I haven't run into a problem.

It's EASILY worth the $430 it's going for now. I only run mine when I'm running 4+ channels which isn't often because I'm usually happy with 2 channels of AUD when I can't get a SBD feed. The only time I'll run 4 channels with mics is outside/FOB when I'll run my CK930's + MCE400's and even then I'll usually only use the CK930's about half the time.

That being said I'm much more confident running the M10. It's very nice to know I can fire it up, hit record, set my levels and close up my bag until the end of the show and know I'll have a good recording at the end of the night.

[Gutbucket]

Another ill-fated media format for which they'll refuse to admit defeat and will attempt to keep alive well past its sell-by date?

[F.O.Bean]

100% agreed. I won't use the 680 unless I'm running mk4/mk41/SBD on 6 channels!!! Otherwise, the mk4/mk41 on (2) M10s is just fine for me since I never matrix (2) DAUD sources together

[carpa]

I can't imagine what future Sony plans will be....but I think the real bet will be in consumer and pro-sumer video-recorders.

If you remember what happened in the  audio field , the first was Zoom and then Edirol, Tascam, Olympus, Sony, Marantz and many others came out with pocket handhelds in order to provide a better quality than minidisc ( or easier use then DAT) for musicians, tapers ecc.

Next step from these brands was adding more channel and/or  xlr inputs in order to improve flexibility and pro-leve connections to their gear. Some of them (pcm m-10  and Edirol r09hr) had a convenient plus in a line-input accepting quite hot signals and thus allowing to be use either as a standalone piece or coupled with an external pre as an alternative to a single recorder equipped with xlr.


In video recording we are, IMHO, at the very first step with Zoom, Olympus and now Tascam. If you want a real professional video you need two or more different camcorders and separate audio, but we are very far from an easy-to-use setup.
Handheld video recorder I mentioned don't have a real better video quality than a good cell phone, they are horrible in low light conditions and, on the audio side, they have a line input which is pretty unusable due to a -10 or -6 nominal level.

I recently recorded this clip   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lGgTitxHyY    with a 250Euros or so Canon camcorder and separate audio on a Mac. It's not a professional video, I know, but its decent for a promotional clip.

If somebody will sell a product with a similar video quality and good sound ( like sony pcm-10 or similar) he will sell an enormous quantity!
Thus you could have either a decent video clip ready to be used or to mix with a video shooted from a second camcorder.

Is it asking too much?
 

[noahbickart]

All I want is an m10 with a spdif input.

[udovdh]

An M10 with PIP on the LINE IN, selectable between 3-9V.

[page]

Another ill-fated media format for which they'll refuse to admit defeat and will attempt to keep alive well past its sell-by date?

winner

All I want is an m10 with a spdif input.

+1. I have a D50, but the optical piece bothers me. I don't know if I'd prefer it over that micro-trrs jack that the newest tascam uses though. (a full sized implementation is unlikely at best...)

An M10 with PIP on the LINE IN, selectable between 3-9V.

doubt it will happen. Too small of a market for such a feature compared to any downsides/flack from the odd settings.

[DSatz]

Sony--and I personally find this very hard to take after a long time of liking their stuff, but it is apparently true--has been having great difficulty making any kind of profit in electronics manufacturing for the past several years, and reportedly is under considerable pressure from investors to get out of the business and to focus on media production, which is apparently the only sector in which they've been making much money.

Their electronics product line is already much smaller than what I remember from decades past, and I haven't seen anything new from their pro audio division in a very long time.

[udovdh]

An M10 with PIP on the LINE IN, selectable between 3-9V.

doubt it will happen. Too small of a market for such a feature compared to any downsides/flack from the odd settings.

I can agree, but also there's no a mod to add PIP to line in...

[hi and lo]

An M10 with PIP on the LINE IN, selectable between 3-9V.

doubt it will happen. Too small of a market for such a feature compared to any downsides/flack from the odd settings.

I can agree, but also there's no a mod to add PIP to line in...

That's what a battery box is for. By definition, Line Inputs should not be providing PIP.

[Chimney Top]

I'm pretty happy with the M10 but if I'd like to see what they could come up with for a 4 channel recorder with at least 2 channels of phantom power.

I like my DR-680, but if I could run 4 channels with the reliability of the M10, I'd be a happy man. I'm always a little edgy about running the DR-680 (although personally I've never had a problem with it).

Yeah, I like the DR-100 but I've lost entire recordings due to the 'file error' issue.  Louis CK at the Fox Theatre - file error.  A show two weeks ago at Terminal West (Atlanta) - file error.  f'n sucks.  good recorder, but unreliable.  I like the DR-100 preamps better than Roland R-26, but the R-26 is more reliable.

[Ozpeter]

An  M10 with cardioid mics built in would be nice.

[dallman]

Yeah, I like the DR-100 but I've lost entire recordings due to the 'file error' issue.  Louis CK at the Fox Theatre - file error.  A show two weeks ago at Terminal West (Atlanta) - file error.  f'n sucks.  good recorder, but unreliable.  I like the DR-100 preamps better than Roland R-26, but the R-26 is more reliable.

File error is a card issue, not really a deck issue. It may be a card that is not fully compatable, or it could be a good card going bad.

[F.O.Bean]

An  M10 with cardioid mics built in would be nice.

Would you really use them for concert recording tho? I think external mics are a MUST HAVE IMO!!!

[Ozpeter]

For carry around recording I'd use them.  Not for concert unless all else failed or circumstances did not permit.

[F.O.Bean]

For carry around recording I'd use them.  Not for concert unless all else failed or circumstances did not permit.

Yea I agree! For ambient noises and recording speeches, I think they're just perfect!

[adrianf74]

100% agreed. I won't use the 680 unless I'm running mk4/mk41/SBD on 6 channels!!! Otherwise, the mk4/mk41 on (2) M10s is just fine for me since I never matrix (2) DAUD sources together

Even then, your clock times between the two M10's will be close and you can always stretch one file out to match the other if you need to (I've done this many times with success before).

[F.O.Bean]

100% agreed. I won't use the 680 unless I'm running mk4/mk41/SBD on 6 channels!!! Otherwise, the mk4/mk41 on (2) M10s is just fine for me since I never matrix (2) DAUD sources together

Even then, your clock times between the two M10's will be close and you can always stretch one file out to match the other if you need to (I've done this many times with success before).

Yea I've done that before too, and it was super easy to match the two sources

[adrianf74]

100% agreed. I won't use the 680 unless I'm running mk4/mk41/SBD on 6 channels!!! Otherwise, the mk4/mk41 on (2) M10s is just fine for me since I never matrix (2) DAUD sources together

Even then, your clock times between the two M10's will be close and you can always stretch one file out to match the other if you need to (I've done this many times with success before).

Yea I've done that before too, and it was super easy to match the two sources

Exactly.  If I was going to run 4-channel, I'd just pick up another M10 at this point because the battery life is phenomenal and the number of problems I've ever encountered with my M10 (in three years of running one) equals ZERO.

[F.O.Bean]

100% agreed. I won't use the 680 unless I'm running mk4/mk41/SBD on 6 channels!!! Otherwise, the mk4/mk41 on (2) M10s is just fine for me since I never matrix (2) DAUD sources together

Even then, your clock times between the two M10's will be close and you can always stretch one file out to match the other if you need to (I've done this many times with success before).

Yea I've done that before too, and it was super easy to match the two sources

Exactly.  If I was going to run 4-channel, I'd just pick up another M10 at this point because the battery life is phenomenal and the number of problems I've ever encountered with my M10 (in three years of running one) equals ZERO.

Also, if running ONE deck, you could lose both sources. If running (2) m10s you have a backup if something happens to one of them

[WiFiJeff]

Sony--and I personally find this very hard to take after a long time of liking their stuff, but it is apparently true--has been having great difficulty making any kind of profit in electronics manufacturing for the past several years, and reportedly is under considerable pressure from investors to get out of the business and to focus on media production, which is apparently the only sector in which they've been making much money.

Their electronics product line is already much smaller than what I remember from decades past, and I haven't seen anything new from their pro audio division in a very long time.

Their Service department is also abandoning product.  I used Sony DATs for many years, and when the PCM D1 solid state recorder came out I bought it (at around $1500, I recall).  Although it was superceded first by the D50 and then the M10, each progressively cheaper and with longer recording times, Sony always claimed the internal mics and preamps of the D1 were superior.   A month or two ago I needed the better mics and preamps and so got it out of a drawer only to find that one channel was dead, both for mic-in and line-in.  I called Sony Service and described the problem, I was told that because parts were no longer available they no longer would service the machine.  Paul at Prodigital got it running again with minimal fuss (corroded contact problem), but any new Sony gear I buy I'll count on having to chuck after five or six years.  For a $200 shaver that's one thing, for a $1500 machine I'm not too happy with the prospect.

Jeff

[jazzgtrl4]

something small with a spidif input. if that m10 had one id own one.

[meursault]

I would like a M10 without the mics, without the headphone, and with a better built in pre amp to get rid of getting an external preamp - battery box.

[rastasean]

Sony--and I personally find this very hard to take after a long time of liking their stuff, but it is apparently true--has been having great difficulty making any kind of profit in electronics manufacturing for the past several years, and reportedly is under considerable pressure from investors to get out of the business and to focus on media production, which is apparently the only sector in which they've been making much money.

Their electronics product line is already much smaller than what I remember from decades past, and I haven't seen anything new from their pro audio division in a very long time.

I also remember their product line being quite big as I flipped through catalogs of sears or some other electronic store nearly two decades ago. IMO, its natural to see consumer electronics change as new things are invented. Most people (probably) wear watches now because they have a smartphone; I won't get a GPS unit because I can use apps like waze on my smartphone; your typical consumer and/or up and coming musician is likely to just use their smartphone or even internal mics on their computer to record as they sing or play guitar. Because smartphone cameras and digital cameras are abundant and nearly always with us, people snap pictures of everything and keep silly things for a long time just because.



I would be really happy to see a sony record with spdif input and interal mics with independent adjustable gain.

[achalsey]

Over on Reddit I randomly was reading a thread about the Playstation 4 and it came up that Sony's electronic division is not turning a profit and actually costing them billions of dollars.

Apparently their insurance division is the real cash cow.  I was surprised to learn that.

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2013-05-28/news/39580325_1_kazuo-hirai-electronics-business-trinitron

[F.O.Bean]

Over on Reddit I randomly was reading a thread about the Playstation 4 and it came up that Sony's electronic division is not turning a profit and actually costing them billions of dollars.

Apparently their insurance division is the real cash cow.  I was surprised to learn that.

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2013-05-28/news/39580325_1_kazuo-hirai-electronics-business-trinitron

Interesting read, thanks!

[rastasean]

Over on Reddit I randomly was reading a thread about the Playstation 4 and it came up that Sony's electronic division is not turning a profit and actually costing them billions of dollars.

Apparently their insurance division is the real cash cow.  I was surprised to learn that.

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2013-05-28/news/39580325_1_kazuo-hirai-electronics-business-trinitron

Insurance: the new cashcow. Early 2000s cashcow: financial planner.

[meursault]

HDR-MV1

http://www.engadget.com/gallery/sony-hdr-mv1-music-video-recorder/945959/#!slide=945959

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

HDR-MV1

http://www.engadget.com/gallery/sony-hdr-mv1-music-video-recorder/945959/#!slide=945959

Line in is a nice touch.

No external power is probably it's downfall for us. I can't imagine getting through an entire show on that tiny battery.

[voltronic]

Also max audio resolution is only 16/44 PCM, or AAC 48k.  While this is not from their "pro" division, I would have at least expected 24/48 PCM which is standard for DVD, and the video resolution of this would imply making bluray discs. 

My hope is that the new Zoom unit inspires Sony to make something similar but with the amazing bang for the buck we have all been enjoying from the M10.

[LikeASong]

Another ill-fated media format for which they'll refuse to admit defeat and will attempt to keep alive well past its sell-by date?

Spilled part of my coffee over the keyboard because of this comment, Gut. Hahahahahaha, epic.

[colargol]

...and there it is: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=164484.msg2058172#msg2058172

[runonce]

Sony--and I personally find this very hard to take after a long time of liking their stuff, but it is apparently true--has been having great difficulty making any kind of profit in electronics manufacturing for the past several years, and reportedly is under considerable pressure from investors to get out of the business and to focus on media production, which is apparently the only sector in which they've been making much money.

Their electronics product line is already much smaller than what I remember from decades past, and I haven't seen anything new from their pro audio division in a very long time.

Sort of an off topic rant - but WHY has Sony abandoned the "WALKMAN" brand???

I know they make mp3 players with that brand - but why the hell arent the cell phones called "WALKMAN"

Next to the transistor radio - the cassette Walkman is one of the more important personal music/media devices, and a precursor the all the little cell/media devices we have today!

I think it would make perfect sense for a phone to bear the Walkman name..

[DSatz]

Hmm--I was in Germany a few weeks ago, visited the Sony store in Berlin and bought a media player there (NWZ-E384/LC). It says "Walkman" on the front of the box, and the "W." insignia is engraved on the front of the player.

The "Walkman" name has been around for ~40 years now, no? Judging from what I see marketing people do at a lot of U.S. companies, that makes it a sitting duck for someone with the bright idea of changing or abolishing it. And perhaps that even makes sense in the aggregate/long term, even though people over the median age don't like it (or maybe even because we don't).

[jerryfreak]

did someone say Walkman?

hi-fi shiznit hot off the presses:

http://www.engadget.com/2013/09/25/sony-unveils-bevy-of-walkman-devices/

24/192 flac with great audio hardware, sign me up.

considering how far standard tech has come in the last decade (see: http://kenrockwell.com/apple/iphone-5/audio-quality.htm ), these should sound great

good to see some mainstream alternatives to the high-priced boutique players like hifiman and colorfly

[jerryfreak]

a rough translation but this:

It corresponds to 5. Digital output

It corresponded to the digital output as a new audio output from the WM-PORT. In addition, we will be able portable headphone amplifier made by Sony for the "PHA-2", to digital output without sound quality music content.


reminds me of this:

Another ill-fated media format for which they'll refuse to admit defeat and will attempt to keep alive well past its sell-by date?

[F.O.Bean]

Sign me up for a ZX1

I have (1) 120gb Zune, (2) 160gb iPod Classics and I'd like to add (1) ZX1 to my arsenal!!!

[pohaku]

Needs more storage.  Like at least 250gb.  I rip in lossless and the 160gb iPod classic is too small.  More is better in this case.

[F.O.Bean]

Needs more storage.  Like at least 250gb.  I rip in lossless and the 160gb iPod classic is too small.  More is better in this case.

I agree! a few years back Toshiba was supposed to come out with a 250gb MP3 player, but I haven't heard about it since I NEED a 500gb MP3 player. That would make me one happy tapir

[pohaku]

Needs more storage.  Like at least 250gb.  I rip in lossless and the 160gb iPod classic is too small.  More is better in this case.

I agree! a few years back Toshiba was supposed to come out with a 250gb MP3 player, but I haven't heard about it since I NEED a 500gb MP3 player. That would make me one happy tapir

Let's be realistic here.  How old is the 160gb iPod classic?  I've had mine for quite some time. In that time, the cost of storage has dropped like a rock and big disk drives are plentiful and cheap.  I mean really.  We should be talking at least 1tb players, if not more.

[F.O.Bean]

Needs more storage.  Like at least 250gb.  I rip in lossless and the 160gb iPod classic is too small.  More is better in this case.

I agree! a few years back Toshiba was supposed to come out with a 250gb MP3 player, but I haven't heard about it since I NEED a 500gb MP3 player. That would make me one happy tapir

Let's be realistic here.  How old is the 160gb iPod classic?  I've had mine for quite some time. In that time, the cost of storage has dropped like a rock and big disk drives are plentiful and cheap.  I mean really.  We should be talking at least 1tb players, if not more.

I couldnt agree with you anymore bro My 1st iPod Classic I got back in October 2008, and I just got my 2nd iPod Classic this past year at Christmas. They are ROCK SOLID, and quite honestly, the ONLY Apple products I like

[TimSmith]

^^^ Ipod classic will be dead in a few years when flash memory becomes cheaper. There are cards with 128 gb space already. So yeah, they'll definitely need to build 500 or 1000 gb hdd player soon. The other question - will there be enough demand for audio player with such storage space?.. Most likely a multimedia player: videos, etc.

[H₂O]

^^^ Ipod classic will be dead in a few years when flash memory becomes cheaper. There are cards with 128 gb space already. So yeah, they'll definitely need to build 500 or 1000 gb hdd player soon. The other question - will there be enough demand for audio player with such storage space?.. Most likely a multimedia player: videos, etc.

Most AD's convert to a more stream based digital format before then converting to PCM and many (such as most if not all the BurrBrown models) convert into DSD 1bit format first - I believe this allows better noise shaping to be applied reducing quantization error - this is all off memory so I may be a bit off on the details

Recording straight to DSD takes the PCM component our of the equation

I am pretty sure most DA's do a similar process in reverse