Topic: Equalizing volume levels...(damien rice shows)

[jkoch]

ok, so i've taped damien 4 times now and i always have the same problem. since he is so fucking extreme in high and low volumes during a show i'm wondering what the best way to deal with a show is. i've done a 3:1  >-20db compression and normalized and it's still really extreme with some songs having average levels of -3db while the song right before it has an average volume of -23db. is there a good way of making this a little bit better for playback? should i just leave it how it is b/c that's how it pretty much was at the show? what do you think. right now i'm considering a 10:1 compression at > -30db..doesn't sound too bad and seems to work decently

[framesaver]

I know it's frowned upon in most cases, but I think Damien's shows do benefit from using some degree of Hard Limiting. I remastered his Album Launch show using a 25db boost with a Hard Limit of -1db (as it was taped at the back of the venue and thusly the quiet songs were almost inaudible). It may alter the dynamics somewhat, but I definitely think it makes for a much more user-friendly listen, what with not having to change the volume all the time.

Maybe other folks will think it's heresy - What say you?

[pfife]

I know it's frowned upon in most cases, but I think Damien's shows do benefit from using some degree of Hard Limiting. I remastered his Album Launch show using a 25db boost with a Hard Limit of -1db (as it was taped at the back of the venue and thusly the quiet songs were almost inaudible). It may alter the dynamics somewhat, but I definitely think it makes for a much more user-friendly listen, what with not having to change the volume all the time.

Maybe other folks will think it's heresy - What say you?

I am always at odds with this too.   On one hand, I say it is heresy, because most musicians work quite a bit on their dynamics, and those dynamics are intended.

On the other hand, I prefer shows that I can listen too.

I usually RMS normalize, and then go check the highest peaks to make sure they aren't distorted.  I will keep raising the amount of normalization until the loudest point peaks, and then back it off.   That way, you increase the volume of everything, but still maintain the dynamics...

my $.0000002

[drumminj]

I'm in the middle of re-doing a Damien Rice recording my friend did.  He compressed/limited the high end, but I don't think that sounds so good.  You lose all the dynamic range up there then.  It seems it's the gap in the middle that could stand to be compressed.  I'm actually using a low-level compressor that's upping anything below a certain dB....brings the lows up higher, but doesn't kill the dynamics like hard-limiting would do. PM me if you want more info, and samples.

J

[ChrisV]

I saw Damien last week and was amazed by the range of sound too....one moment he'll be screaming loud and then the next moment down to a whisper.   I actually didn't end up attampting to tape that show.  I imagine I'd be in the same situation too if I did ;p

I'd agree that on the very quiestest parts could be helped by being boosted a little bit.

[Chanher]

make an unedited copy as well as a mastered copy available for trade.  document your work to the last detail on your info files, and also note that there are two versions available.  little more work, but you satisfy everyone this way.

[drumminj]

Instead of making two copies available, I'd just put a note in the info file saying to email you if anyone would like the un-processed show.  But definitely document what you do.

[Chanher]

Instead of making two copies available, I'd just put a note in the info file saying to email you if anyone would like the un-processed show.  But definitely document what you do.

yeah that'll be more convenient, many tapers do this for shows they tape with higher bit res/sample rates.

[jkoch]

make an unedited copy as well as a mastered copy available for trade.  document your work to the last detail on your info files, and also note that there are two versions available.  little more work, but you satisfy everyone this way.

that's the problem with a lot of damien recordings though, especially in his little trading world...people get the shows, then take it upon themselves to remaster them themselves, then spread those versions and you get 50 different versions in the trading pool..

thanks for the advice though guys, i'll try the RMS but i'm not sure it's going to do much and isn't it known to distort a bit as well?

[jkoch]

I know it's frowned upon in most cases, but I think Damien's shows do benefit from using some degree of Hard Limiting. I remastered his Album Launch show using a 25db boost with a Hard Limit of -1db (as it was taped at the back of the venue and thusly the quiet songs were almost inaudible).

which show was this?

[Sloan Simpson]

I'm in the middle of re-doing a Damien Rice recording my friend did.  He compressed/limited the high end, but I don't think that sounds so good.  You lose all the dynamic range up there then.  It seems it's the gap in the middle that could stand to be compressed.  I'm actually using a low-level compressor that's upping anything below a certain dB....brings the lows up higher, but doesn't kill the dynamics like hard-limiting would do. PM me if you want more info, and samples.

J

Bingo.  I used to do the hard limit approach, but started using low-level compression  based on a post of Doug Oade's that finally made it click in my head.  I've been much happier with the results.  I still do a little bit of limiting as well, but very little, the low-level compression gives you much more usable listening volume while still leaving some dynamic range. . .

Sloan

[drumminj]

Bingo.  I used to do the hard limit approach, but started using low-level compression  based on a post of Doug Oade's that finally made it click in my head.  I've been much happier with the results.  I still do a little bit of limiting as well, but very little, the low-level compression gives you much more usable listening volume while still leaving some dynamic range. . .

Sloan

well, it still kills the dynamic range overall.  But it's just taking it from a different place.  I think the differences in volume when you're down at a whisper aren't that noticable anyway, so it's probably better to do the compression down there.  As far as Damien, there are a few songs where they start from a whisper or normal volume, then continue to build louder and louder and louder....if you hard-limit the top-end, you'll lose this effect, as you'll quickly hit 0dB and stay there while in the performance it was different.  Very rarely do they start quiet, then get quieter, quieter, quieter....where those variances in volume are all that important.

But this is just IMO.  The best thing to do is read the PDF files that come with the Waves C1 compressor.  TONS of helpful information in there.  I think that's where I got the idea to use low-level compression in the first place.

J

[jkoch]

so um..what can i do in soundforge or cool edit? hehe

[pfife]

so um..what can i do in soundforge or cool edit? hehe

Pirate the waves plugs...  I use them in sound forge...
 

[jkoch]

k, so what do i type into kazaa haha