Topic: Down to 2 recorder choices (Please help me decide)

[Boctaper]

I really can't choice between these 2 I wanna start recording great rock shows!

[Ozpeter]

Using what else?   Or just with the internal mics?  Need more info!

[flintstone]

Both are good recorders.  Which is better depends on how you plan to use it.

The R-09HR is smaller and cheaper than the D50, can record in MP3 format, has an internal speaker, and uses less expensive SDHC cards.  The R-09HR can handle louder sound without clipping.  Edirol includes a desktop stand and a wireless remote control for the R-09HR, while Sony charges extra for these accessories.

The D50 wins in just about every other way: better preamp, better battery life, better construction, digital input and output, pre-roll buffer, 3 positions for built-in mics, 4GB of memory built in, and so on. 

In some cases the difference between the R-09HR and D50 is small.  For example, plenty of people here are happy with the R-09HR's preamp for concert recording.  The Sony's preamp is quieter, though. 

Here are Guysonic's test results that show preamp noise floor for mic and line inputs
http://www.sonicstudios.com/-35dbu_n.gif
http://www.sonicstudios.com/-35dBLOG88.2vs3SXpip.gif

And here is Raimund Specht's page showing his measurements of noise floor
http://www.avisoft.com/recordertests.htm

This last set of tests shows that the R-09HR's preamp can handle about 15 dB louder sounds without clipping.   In some circumstances, you would need to set the Sony to record at low mic sensitivity, or perhaps run an attenuator with your external mics. 

Flintstone

[Belexes]

The D50 wins in just about every other way: better preamp, better battery life, better construction, digital input and output, pre-roll buffer, 3 positions for built-in mics, 4GB of memory built in, and so on. 

[jlykos]

This last set of tests shows that the R-09HR's preamp can handle about 15 dB louder sounds without clipping.   In some circumstances, you would need to set the Sony to record at low mic sensitivity, or perhaps run an attenuator with your external mics. 

The low mic sensitivity setting works well and I have never seen the need to use an attenuator.  Running line-in, you really don't need an attenuator and the mic-in has a low sensitivity setting. 

The limiter adds another level of protection.  I recorded Leon Russell mic-in last night with Sonic Studios DSM-6/L mics and I accidentally knocked the low sensitivity mode switch to high sensitivity about 15 minutes before the show ended.   When I checked the recording at the end of the show, I found that I recorded about 15 minutes of continuous "over" levels.  I had the limiter on, however, because I knew it was a tight recording situation and I am able to salvage a listenable (actually, quite good) recording out of it.

The Sony D50 is the best portable recorder I have ever used.  I highly recommend it.

[Boctaper]

Thanks flintstone for the info on both

I will NOT use the Mp3 setting as I HATE mp3 stuff.

I like everything about the sony but I do really like how small the R-09HR is

My friend just ordered the R-09HR so I might just get the sony as we will be going to the same shows.It would be fun to compare them both at the same time I just hope I don't have much trouble sneaking the sony in

I really just want to buy the recorder first and just try it with out mic's,later I can get a nice mic for it.I just don't have another $500 to get a kick ass mic right now.

[Belexes]

You can get the D50 into shows. I have had no issues, but the venues I attend rarely have pat downs/metal detectors.

[su6oxone]

The D50 wins in just about every other way: better preamp, better battery life, better construction, digital input and output, pre-roll buffer, 3 positions for built-in mics, 4GB of memory built in, and so on.

Really?  I get 9+ hours of 24 bit recording (44.1khz) with two 2700mAh Sanyos in my R-09HR.

[jlykos]

The D50 wins in just about every other way: better preamp, better battery life, better construction, digital input and output, pre-roll buffer, 3 positions for built-in mics, 4GB of memory built in, and so on.

Really?  I get 9+ hours of 24 bit recording (44.1khz) with two 2700mAh Sanyos in my R-09HR.

The Sony D50 manual says that you can get around 12 or 13 hours from four AA batteries.  One organization tested it with four Duracells and found that they could get over 24 hours if you leave the light off.  I get 12+ hours from four AA batteries with the light usually on.

[su6oxone]

The Sony D50 manual says that you can get around 12 or 13 hours from four AA batteries.  One organization tested it with four Duracells and found that they could get over 24 hours if you leave the light off.  I get 12+ hours from four AA batteries with the light usually on.

Wow, over 12 hours... touche. 

[stantheman1976]

I love my D50.  Sony has a good history with their handheld recorders and when you use the D50 it becomes obvious they put a ood bit of thought into the unit to make it a good value.  Battery life is awesome.  Get some rechargables and power will never be an issue.

[Boctaper]

Thanks guys for voting! Im going for the EDIROL

[su6oxone]

Thanks guys for voting! Im going for the EDIROL

You won't regret it, it's a great little recorder.   

[dorrcoq]

The D50 wins in just about every other way: better preamp, better battery life, better construction, digital input and output, pre-roll buffer, 3 positions for built-in mics, 4GB of memory built in, and so on.

Really?  I get 9+ hours of 24 bit recording (44.1khz) with two 2700mAh Sanyos in my R-09HR.

The Sony D50 manual says that you can get around 12 or 13 hours from four AA batteries.  One organization tested it with four Duracells and found that they could get over 24 hours if you leave the light off.  I get 12+ hours from four AA batteries with the light usually on.

Other than worrying about having to change them, then how is 12 hours with 4 batteries better than 6 hours with 2 batteries?  That really isn't "better battery life" to me.

[jlykos]

The D50 wins in just about every other way: better preamp, better battery life, better construction, digital input and output, pre-roll buffer, 3 positions for built-in mics, 4GB of memory built in, and so on.

Really?  I get 9+ hours of 24 bit recording (44.1khz) with two 2700mAh Sanyos in my R-09HR.

The Sony D50 manual says that you can get around 12 or 13 hours from four AA batteries.  One organization tested it with four Duracells and found that they could get over 24 hours if you leave the light off.  I get 12+ hours from four AA batteries with the light usually on.

Other than worrying about having to change them, then how is 12 hours with 4 batteries better than 6 hours with 2 batteries?  That really isn't "better battery life" to me.

That right there.  When you are at a festival running from place to place or taping a bunch of bands right after each other, I prefer to have the peace of mind that I will not have to worry about changing batteries when I am busy doing a dozen other things.

Also, if the 24+ hour test of recording on a D50 holds, then it is a significant improvement in battery life over any other recorder available.

[Scooter123]

Two points:

The Sony is nice, but awfully big.  The Edirol is the size of a packet of cigs. 

You'll need a preamp/battery box anyway, so the pres on the machine are really irrelevant; Any outrigged preamp will probably be better than what is inboard with the Sony. 

I do hate the button layouts on the Edirol, though, and the remote is retarded.  But no biggie. 

[F.O.Bean]

I don't own either, but I definitely like the look and size of teh R9HR Plus, A LOT of Team Philly and many NBox owners, have switched their big 7xx decks, into a simple and smaller 24-bit ADC/Recorder combo, and is less than a 1/4 of the size of a 7xx If I had a pair of mics and a preamp, and was sending an ANALOG signal into either of those, I'd also pick the R9HR, but maybe just because Ive heard ALOT more stuff from the R9HR than I have w/ the Sony D50 All of those small, very portable recorders, w/ GREAT ADC's, they've come a long way even since the old Sony D-7's and D-8's. The M1/d100 were a step up, but not by much. Now the R9HR has 24bit capabilities, and has a pretty damn good ADC in it, MUCH BETTER than those older "walkman" style DATS from 10-15 years ago which were even bigger than the R9HR! Like I said, I don't own either of them, but if I was buying one, I'd go the r9HR, maybe just because its already proven reliability in the field as an ADC/24bit Recorder

[rastasean]

When I first started reading this board, neither one of these recorders were around and that was just a little over a year ago and at the time I thought the Edirol R09 was the ugliest thing ever made and it looked like an electric shaver.

Now I am a proud owner of the R-09HR. I had a hard time picking one over the other but I have not regretted the recorder at all. I have a buddy who has the Sony D50 and I played with it just once. It was nice high quality but its bigger and the accessories are extra whereas the 09HR COMES WITH THEM. Neither one of these have XLR inputs so the mic in for the pre amps may be something to think about.
I will tell you one of the things I don't like about the D50 is the built in memory. In a time where memory is cheap, why is this built in?

Whichever you get, you will be pleased!!

[Belexes]

I will tell you one of the things I don't like about the D50 is the built in memory. In a time where memory is cheap, why is this built in?

I think it's a plus. Memory cards are prone to failure.  A couple of times I recorded *nothing* on my R-09 
I've never had an issue using the internal memory on the Sony plus there's no issue of going to the gig and accidentally forgetting to put a memory card in. It's handy as shit.

[Brian Skalinder]

Memory cards are prone to failure.

What do you think is inside the Sony?

there's no issue of going to the gig and accidentally forgetting to put a memory card in. It's handy as shit.

No doubt!  I've forgotten DATs plenty of times, though not a memory card...yet.

[Belexes]

Memory cards are prone to failure.

What do you think is inside the Sony?

there's no issue of going to the gig and accidentally forgetting to put a memory card in. It's handy as shit.

No doubt!  I've forgotten DATs plenty of times, though not a memory card...yet.

Small HD? I guess I never thought there was a card in there.  I'm not brave enough to crack it open.

I forgot DAT tapes once and swore it would never happen again.

[stantheman1976]

I thought the D50 was advertised as having 4GB of built in flash memory? 

I think the built in memory is fantastic.  It's a decent amount and lets you hold off on buying a card if you want.  I know when buying a $500 recorder an extra $50 on a memory stick shouldn't be a big deal but for people like me $500 is a huge chunk of change.

[jlykos]

the accessories are extra whereas the 09HR COMES WITH THEM.

What accessories are extra on the D50?  It comes with a USB cable, built-in microphones, and 4GB of internal memory.  You can start recording right out of the box.  What else do you want to come with it?

I will tell you one of the things I don't like about the D50 is the built in memory. In a time where memory is cheap, why is this built in?

You can add memory to the D50 through the external slot.  And including 4GB in the Sony is certainly a nice gesture.  As I said, you can take the D50 out of the box and immediately start recording with it if you like.  In my world, this is a good thing.

[Mike R.]

Memory cards are prone to failure.

What do you think is inside the Sony?

I think there is flash memory soldered to the circuit board.  Same basic memory technology as a card, but is more reliable soldered down opposed to connectors and user-inserted devices.

[rastasean]

the accessories are extra whereas the 09HR COMES WITH THEM.

What accessories are extra on the D50?  It comes with a USB cable, built-in microphones, and 4GB of internal memory.  You can start recording right out of the box.  What else do you want to come with it?

Its been mentioned that the remote is extra and its not wireless and I have read it does not come with a wall power adapter.
While the former is not necessary to start recording, the 09hr has one with it and its wireless.

So to the OP, when are you getting the recorder??

[xpander]

Its been mentioned that the remote is extra and its not wireless and I have read it does not come with a wall power adapter.
While the former is not necessary to start recording, the 09hr has one with it and its wireless.


Like Jlykos said, D50 is ready to go, right out of the box. It comes with external power supply AND batteries, along with the already mentioned USB cable, software cd-rom and manual. Remote is extra, that's true, but not that necessary to get you going either. It would be nice if the package would've also had some kind of carrying bag/belt clip or even just simple wrist strap...and maybe some basic windscreen too. Any of those I would need more than a remote, but that might be just me.

About the D50 battery life; so far I've been able to get about 12 hours with light and leds on, recording with internal mics (gain at 5) and monitoring thru 600 Ohm studio headphones (volume at 5) at the same time. Not bad at all, I'd say.

[nak700s]

This thread has all been very informative.  I've been wondering the same thing myself, but I have been holding out on getting one because I want a small flash recorder that I can adjust right and left recording levels separately.  I feel it's only a matter of time.

As to Sony, I trust their portable recorders now, with my PC-M1 and have for the past 25 years with my TC-D5M.  I have confidence that the D50 would do the job.

I loved the comment about the R-09 looking like an electric shaver!  It really is true and made me laugh.  I have one on loan to me and just tried it out at a show.  I will bring glasses the next time I decide to use it.  I could barely see the tiny screen!

As to the internal memory on the D50, I think it's a blessing.  I can't say I've ever forgot to bring tapes or a card to a show, but my concerns are different.  What if you get popped?  It's nice to have something to give up to security but still have the recording on an internal drive.  That, unfortunately, I can relate to.

Personally, if I weren't going to wait and money wasn't in issue, I'd put my faith in the Sony.

[Boctaper]

Shaver was first thought when I got it!

I had a very hard time between the sony and the edirol! But the BIG selling point was the size!

Here's my set up!!

[gmm6797]

... Sony says they will charge $50 per retrieved file.

All the more reason to go with an Edirol R-09HR, IMHO

[Belexes]

Shaver was first thought when I got it!

I had a very hard time between the sony and the edirol! But the BIG selling point was the size!

Here's my set up!!

Damn, you almost have a Constanza wallet there.

[Boctaper]

  Haha

Yeah,I got a new wallet for christmas but I really like my Constanza Wallet! It's so old that it has 3 compartments for dollars now as its coming unthreaded(had 2 when I first got it)

Well,It's good as this is all I need to bring at the shows

[johnw]

does the sony have any of those lovely proprietary multi-pin connectors?

no. but it does take only its proprietary memory stick format memory cards. After playing around with both, I'm much happier with the Sony.

EDIT: I also found the Sony to be smaller than I was imagining.

[Belexes]

EDIT: I also found the Sony to be smaller than I was imagining.

Thank you. Everyone's opinion on the Sony seems to be that it's this massive monstrosity. You hold it up to your Constanza wallet and it's not that much bigger.  I guess it's all relative. I am use to using huge old analog decks so the Sony doesn't phase me.  My buddy that all the Phish tapers hate still will use a Nagra reel-to-reel on occasion...stealth.