Topic: how to choose 702 menu settings for Schoeps mics

[noam]

I am using the 702 with Schoeps mics for the first time and there are too many settings to decide from – I would appreciate some help. I go Schoeps capsules>VST62>702, but it doesn’t matter; the setting should be the same like for any Schoeps mics (either with mic bodies built in, separate or any configuration.)

 

I tape in concert halls, only acoustic music. First decision is do I set the 2 Mic-Line Input Switches on the left panel on mic (switches in left position) or on line-in (switches in center position)?

 

Then, going by the menu options order (I skip what I don’t have doubts about):

 

21) Mic input limiter – how does that work?

22/23) Mic Input Low Cut – enabled or disabled?

24/25) Mic Input Low Cut Freq – which one of the 12 combinations?

26/27) Mic Input Gain Range – Normal or Low?

28) Input Source – analog or auto-select?

29) Input 1,2 linking, MS – which of the 3 settings?

30) Line Input 1,2 Gain Control – that depends on the very first choice, whether to set the 2 Mic-Line Input Switches on the left panel on mic (switches in left position) or on line in (switches in center position)

31/32) Line Input Gains - that also depends on the very first choice, whether to set the 2 Mic-Line Input Switches on the left panel on mic (switches in left position) or on line in (switches in center position)

 

Anything else?

 

Thanks, Noam

 

[T.J.]

Here's my take: You should select Line In

21) Mic input limiter – how does that work? I don't use it. i don't think it matters with line in

22/23) Mic Input Low Cut – enabled or disabled? disable. i don't think it matters with line in

24/25) Mic Input Low Cut Freq – which one of the 12 combinations? don't use it. i don't think it matters with line in

26/27) Mic Input Gain Range – Normal or Low? low. i don't think it matters with line in

28) Input Source – analog or auto-select? analog

29) Input 1,2 linking, MS – which of the 3 settings? i like the gain linked. it allows you to use one front pot to increase the gain and the other to pan either right or left. as long as your caps are closely matched it's a great feature.

30) Line Input 1,2 Gain Control – that depends on the very first choice, whether to set the 2 Mic-Line Input Switches on the left panel on mic (switches in left position) or on line in (switches in center position) line input should be left:1 right:2

31/32) Line Input Gains - that also depends on the very first choice, whether to set the 2 Mic-Line Input Switches on the left panel on mic (switches in left position) or on line in (switches in center position) i think low or normal are the choices, correct? i go with low, but maybe you want to use normal if it's only acoustic

 
Anything else?

the VST62 provides phantom power to the mics, correct? if so make sure to turn off phantom 48v on the 702.


These settings work for me, however YMMV

 

[ghellquist]

My take on this.

I believe that the VST62 is only a different body for the mics, so they will behave like normal CMC5 or CMC6. Totally normal mic behaviour that is. (I run a 722 and Schoeps MSTC64).

So first choice is the physical switch which I put on Microphone. This is the only thing on the 7x2 that I don´t really like, it is a bit too easy to by mistake slide it over to line or AES. I have been thinking about making a small metal contraption to make them stay in place, not there yet though.

21) Mic input limiter – I generally have that on, but YMMV.
The limiter starts squashing loud signals somewhere above -6dB (cannot remember the exact figure). This is to not have that ugly digital distortion from going above 0. This setting goes together with how hot you record, my take is to aim at peaks around -12dB, that is flickering yellow lights but no reds. The limiter does effect sound in a destructive way but to me it is a nice life saver for that totally unexpected loud sound.

22/23) Mic Input Low Cut – when recording acoustic music set it to off. This is mainly for running microphone on a boom, stopping handheld noise.
24/25) Mic Input Low Cut Freq – does not matter if you have low cut turned off.

26/27) Mic Input Gain Range – Normal or Low? Depends on how loud your sound source is. I tend to run Normal.

Typical setting for me recording acoustic sources in a concert hall would be setting gain to around 30dB.

28) Input Source – analog or auto-select?  Does not really matter, only comes into play when you connect external digital equipment.

29) Input 1,2 linking, MS – for normal stereo recording I select Linking. In this way the top gain control sets the gain for both mics. Move the lower one til you get a C in the middle of the gain display and leave it there.

30) Line Input 1,2 Gain Control – Not applicable when you run mic in.
31/32) Line Input Gains - not applicable.

Don´t forget to turn on phantom power. There is a "short-cut" for that: press and hold the ~ button (tone) and the two buttons Menu and HDD toggles phantom for the two mic ins. Good idea: copy the Shortcuts page from the manual and take it along.

Good luck with your equipment. In my experience the combination of SD7xx with Schoeps mics is professional equipment (ie working every time) with a sound quality allowing commercial releases.

// Gunnar

[noam]

Typical setting for me recording acoustic sources in a concert hall would be setting gain to around 30dB.

How do you know when the top gain control is on 30 dB (when linking)?

You're right about the the VST62 being only a different body for the mics.

Noam

[DSatz]

ghellquist is right that the output of the VST 62 is at microphone output levels, not at line levels.

The terminology for condenser microphones is kinda backwards, since the circuitry of a microphone is called its "amplifier," which you connect to a microphone "preamplifier," which amplifies the microphone's signals to line levels. The fact that the "amplifier" comes before the "preamplifier" in this picture is a first-class nuisance for people scratching their heads and trying to comprehend, but there's nothing we can do about it any more; those are the long-established names for these things.

Of course in this case what the VST 62 puts out are "professional condenser microphone" output levels, which may be ~20 dB higher than consumer microphone levels or dynamic/ribbon microphone levels. They can be nearly 1 Volt rms for extremely loud sounds (ca. 130 dB SPL) and for consumer equipment 1 Volt rms would indeed be "line level" but again, for halfway modern professional recording equipment 1 Volt is still in the range of "microphone level," and anyway you're not recording 130 dB SPL close up, or else I'll have to write the whole rest of this message in UPPER CASE because by now you are PROFOUNDLY DEAF.

Under normal circumstances you would probably want to set the low-cut (high-pass) filter to some setting that won't affect the overall sound quality, but that will reduce the low-frequency garbage a little if you want. Depending on the room and the music, that might be 40 Hz (as a rough guess, not knowing your circumstances). It's not a great idea to use low-cut filters to try to fix problems with boominess in a room, since low-frequency sound reproduction depends on so many variables that you almost certainly would be safer making such decisions at home with loudspeakers to let you monitor the effect of your choices. Also, EQ is generally a more versatile tool than a filter for that purpose.

Does that help?

[Brian Skalinder]

How do you know when the top gain control is on 30 dB (when linking)?

It shows on the front panel display.

The shortcut keys are handy, just make sure you don't flub it like me:  http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,114410.0.html

[noam]

Does that help?

Yes, thank you very much.


As I was transitioning from my current setup of Schoeps caps>Sonosax lemosax>SONY PCM D1 (line in) to the new one, Schoeps caps>VST62>702, I got the 702 before I got the VST62 and taped 2 performances with Schoeps caps>Sonosax lemosax>702 (line in). I heard no difference whatsoever. I think this compared A/D convertor chips in the 702 vs. the D1 and they are probably the same. They are probably the same also in the SONY D50 and in the Sonosax miniR82.

 

Then the  VST62 arrived. My piano room is extremely quiet because it’s a space surrounded 360 degrees circle of extremely heavy curtains. I was able to compare the Schoeps caps>Sonosax lemosax>SONY PCM D1 to the Schoeps caps>VST62>702 at least as far as the piano sounds – the VST62>702 is very significantly quieter than the Sonosax lemosax>SONY PCM D1.

 

I used to think that the Sonosax lemosax>SONY PCM D1 is very quiet, because a comparison of the Schoeps caps> Sonosax lemosax>SONY PCM D1 to a friend’s DPA4060>MMA6000>Sonosax miniR82 revealed that the Schoeps caps> Sonosax lemosax>SONY PCM D1 is significantly quieter, probably because (as Schoeps claims) tiny mics like the DPA4060's are noisy. But the Schoeps caps>VST62>702 is even quieter in a bigger step towards dead silence – I am impressed. Comparison of the sound quality will have to wait.

Noam

[DSatz]

Noam, you are making comparisons among the noise levels of different sets of equipment, but some of these pieces of equipment also have settings which can be adjusted, and the relationships among those settings can be a large further variable.

As an example, the "Lemosax" preamp has variable gain while the analog line inputs of both recorders also have variable gain, and the settings which you choose for the preamp would directly affect the settings you would choose for the recorder. The relationships among the signal, the headroom limit and the noise floor in both places will vary with both gain settings.

I'd just like to make clear that you can't conclude whether one arrangement of equipment is quieter or noisier than another unless you've found the quietest combination of usable settings for each. I haven't been following your whole adventure here, and it's entirely possible that you've worked that all out already and I simply missed the message, so I'm only saying this "just in case."

--best regards