Topic: PCM-M10, an old taper, new technology = Help!

[Bootleg Detroit]

Okay, given that I haven't taped in 13 years -- hard to believe. My last rig was B&K 4011's>Neumann BS48-i2 PS>D-10Pro/D-3. -- and with all the new technology I consider myself a "newbee" and have a few questions.
   
I will be taping my first show (J.Prine) after a LONG absence next week -- both excited and nervous! -- and called on an old friend to borrow some DSM's for easy stxxlthing and decided to also buy a PCM-M10, instead of running my old D-3.  Big difference between the D-3 and M-10!!

These questions might have been answered in the previous posts, but I didn't see 'em.

1.) Running at 24/44.1 how many record hours can I expect to get?
2.) As far as setting levels, what helpful tips are there?  I am used to setting DAT levels, to peak at "0".  I understand you can boost levels post production, but where should I set (Pre set?) them?
3.) Any other general helpful tips for a newbee with the M-10 on a maiden voyage?

Thanks in advance!

[setboy]

1 Depends on how big of a card you are using in the  PCM-M10.

[swordfish]

Inernal 4 GB should allow you to tape 48/24 about 4 hours of music

[Napo]

2. shared wisdom is at 6 levl with line in mics; internal mics, it depends on how you set the mic sensitivity swithv on the back of the machine (in general the level should be more conservativly set 3-4, but it depends on the PA of theconcenrt you record)

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

I would recommend recording at 24/48 vs. 24/44.1.

At 24/48, one hour of music is pretty close to 1GB, so with internal memory you'll get 4 hours. Unless you're only recording a short night of music, I would pick up a MicroSD card (at least 4GB) to add some time. Handy for traveling as well since you won't have to make room if you're going to do multiple nights without any place to dump your files down to.

For 24 bit recording you want to set your levels to peak at around -6db. Since 24 bit has a lower noise floor you can always boost the levels in post without any noticeable noise added.

As for tips, it's a pretty easy rig to run. Make sure you format in advance. Also if you're running to the extra memory card make sure you TEST it before you use it in the field. I got a dud card and ruined a recording because of it. When I got the replacement card I recorded to it for about 2 hours to make sure it worked. Practice going through the menu's so you know where everything is located. Don't use auto levels. Like I said, pretty easy to run, and had been rock solid for me (other than the dud card).

I'm traveling this week to shows (6 or 7 shows on the east coast) and didn't even bother bringing my regular rig. Just the Tinybox and M10 (I did bring both sets of my mics). Very nice to have such a small setup. You'll love it.

[jlykos]

I have the D50, which is kind of like the big brother to the M10.  I agree with everything that has been said here with regards to recording time.  Be sure to set the power to plug-in power in the internal menu system if you are running DSMs with it.  You don't need the battery box or preamp with the DSMs; the M10 should power them without any problems.

As for recording levels, I like running my D50 the same way that I ran a DAT.  Peak at -1 or -2 and that's it.  I know that some people like to run a little bit lower, but I run at 24 bits to capture the full potential of the signal chain.  The D50 is really hard to clip; I don't know if the M10 functions the same way.

[Bootleg Detroit]

Thanks for all the feedback.  A few more clarifying questions:

With the D-10 and D-3 I always ran LINE in, should I do the same with the M-10, running the DSM's?  GuySonic suggested Mic sensitivity set to LOW, but not sure if he was suggesting LINE in or MIC in?  Anyone have experience with this?

GuySonic also suggested running 24/44.1 suggesting it offered the "best CD compatible editing options."  Any additional thoughts on this?

Thanks again for all the feedback, it's greatly appreciated!

Alan

[fmaderjr]

Try not to post the same basic questions in 2 separate threads. It gets confusing. I posted my thoughts on the DSM mics with the M10 here:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=136665.new;topicseen#new

[mr qpl]

lots of good advice, I have a d50 and find it pretty similar to the DAT, although it doesn't have the problems that unmodified dats had with undetectable brickwalling on mic in. I would certainly reccomend mic in on most shows without attenuation and I record 24/44.1 and it works great at the -12db setting. with that setting, I can amp up to -1 db or so post without any hiss whatsoever. I'd reccomend going to some shows you don't really care about getting A+ recordings on and experiment with the deck and mics. write down what you're doing or just speak into the mics before each experiment. In a couple or 3 trys you should know the settings pretty well.

[fmaderjr]

I would certainly reccomend mic in on most shows without attenuation and I record 24/44.1 and it works great at the -12db setting. with that setting, I can amp up to -1 db or so post without any hiss whatsoever.ll.

Note that with the M10 (& I think the D50), as with most small recorders, the mic in, low sensitivity setting is not attenuated. The high sensitivity setting is boosted.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

It's never too late!

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=138952.msg1799154#msg1799154

[Bootleg Detroit]

I LOVED my 4011's!  I just don't have the free time that I used to to make sense of owning another pair.  But, I can certainly testify to their awesomeness!   

[goodcooker]

Since 24 bit has a lower noise floor you can always boost the levels in post without any noticeable noise added.

This is inaccurate...the noise floor of your recording is the sum of two things - the inherent noise of your setup plus the noise in the environment (which for concert recording typically negates the noise of the recording setup as it is much louder). It doesn't have anything to do with bit depth.

That being said...I run my levels fairly conservative and boost them in post just like Mike said.

[Ozpeter]

This is inaccurate...

Well, we could argue all night about that and probably have done already.... of course if you digitally increase the gain of a recording in post-production you'll be also be increasing the amount of analog and ambient noise as well as the signal, but you're unlikely to hear any increase in quantisation noise unless the gain increase is more than about 18dB.   The chief benefit of using 24 bits to record is to enable you to record at a modestly lower level thus avoiding any possibility of digital clipping, and there's unlikely to be any audible downside if you then normalise the recording in your DAW afterwards.

[mr qpl]

What they're saying. you can record some really quiet stuff, amp it up in post and it's not hissy. nice shit, however you describe it. enjoy the new recorder, they are really nice!