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Author Topic: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?  (Read 16854 times)

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Offline brewcrew87

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Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« on: June 12, 2011, 07:08:15 PM »
this may be a stupid question, but what makes the sound devices 7 series so good that people plunk down $2500 and up, when a PMD 661 is around $600? i may be ignorant, could someone enlighten me as to what the benefits of sound devices are- i have been to the SD website and cant make sense of it

Offline johnw

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2011, 07:43:48 PM »
Extremely well engineered layout with excellent customer service in a well thought out device that will perform flawlessly in every recording condition. Plus they were one of the first widely available solid state recorders on the market, so they could pick any price point.

But the same question could be asked why Schoeps are so much more expensive than some of the competing small diameter microphones.

Bottom line, they are that expensive because that is what people will pay.
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Offline brewcrew87

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2011, 07:58:36 PM »
theres no doubt they are second to none in design and durability and easy of use etc...just seems like the recorder would have less of an impact on the sound then the pre amp or mics

Offline acidjack

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2011, 09:04:36 PM »
I've wondered this for years. I think it's several things. For one- US manufacture. Like European mics that are handmade, that is a lot of man hours by people with higher salaries than Chinese factory workers by ordes of magnitude. The primary costs on the gear are engineering/r&d and labor. SD is high in both.

And yes, like Schoeps, they have the absolute top reputation and top service. Why does BMW command a premium? Same deal- longstanding reputation as a better product. Competitors may make gear that competes and even bests once in awhile- but SD is established as a consistent performer.

Also, SD gear is believed to have built-in pres that rival HQ standalone ones. I don't think that is said of most other all in one boxes.

I wish they were cheaper :)
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Offline Belexes

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2011, 09:43:09 PM »
I don't get it either. *shrugs*  A solid state recorder is a solid state recorder.  Spend the big bucks on mics + pre.
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Offline H₂O

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2011, 09:45:12 PM »
I think they need to either lower the prices of the older models or come out with a new cheaper line to replace these aging recorders.

They are great but they have been on the market for 6 years now and alot has changed in the past 6 years.

There is alot of great things in these recorders (size, durablity, customer support, etc) and alot to be desired (better pre-amps, better display, better menu system, no hard drive, etc) IMO.

I am leaving the 788 out of this discussion - I think with that it is at the right price point - although it would be nice to see a sub $5k version of this recorder.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2011, 09:57:31 PM by H²O »
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Offline notlance

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2011, 10:13:18 PM »
The 7xx boxes were not designed for the taper market, or even the professional location recording engineer; they were designed for the film and video sound mixer.  A sound mixer's primary concern is that his equipment be dependable.  If I blow a recording it's embarrassing and may cost me my next job.  If a film sound mixer misses a take it could cost thousands to hundreds of thousands of dollars.  For example, the sound for the film "The Dark Knight" was recorded with a 788T.  In that film they blow up a hospital and there is no second take for that scene.  7xx recorders are often used for ENG and scientific purposes under extreme conditions where failure is not an option.  It just so happens that the 7xx boxes sound pretty good too.

The 7xx competition is not a PMD661 but rather recorders from Aaton, Zaxcom, and Nagra.  Compared to recorders from those companies, the Sound Devices boxes are often less expensive.

Offline FrozenSounds

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2011, 10:16:39 PM »
The have earned a standing that's a close second to Nagra ( see how you like their prices  :o ).

In the link below; vs the PM661, the SD preamps are 5dB quieter and it has 11dB more dynamic range. http://www.avisoft.com/recordertests.htm.

The ability to cascase multiple recorders with common synchronous timing and clocks is nice.
( though I can't work out how to monitor the audio from both without an external headphone switch )

Never used the digital IO ports so can't comment how useful they are.
For video/film professionals the 'T'  timecode option makes sense.

The 702 at $1875 is probably the best option rather than the $2500 702T ; two of them cost less than the 744T which only has 2 pre-amps with full performance ( but adds time code ).


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Offline John Willett

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2011, 04:22:28 AM »
The Sound Devices are extremely well engineered.

A friend of mine was a Beta tester of the original 744T - he sent it back in bits as it was not capable (then) of doing a professional job.  Sound Devices delayed release for about a year while they worked on all the issues that he found and came out with a superb machine that fully does the job it was designed for.

The new AETA 4MinX is in the same ball-park price bracket and is also very tough.

So it is actually not expensive at all - it's the right price for what it is.

In audio quality it probably comes third after Nagra and AETA, but streets ahead of virtually everything else.  The only other that comes close is the Aaton Cantar, but that's even more expensive.

Comparing the SD with the PMD 661 is like comparing a BMW with a push-bike.


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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2011, 09:11:29 AM »
If I took a BMW to work and a bicycle the next, would anyone even know the difference if I didn't tell them?  I understand the professional use/reliability aspect of it, but if the pre is so good in an SD 7XX, why do most run a V2, V3, or other pre with it?

I'm just skeptical.  Would like to hear comps of the same mics, same pre, different solid state deck and see if there is a difference and if that difference is worth $2,000+ to the taping hobbyist.
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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2011, 09:52:10 AM »
I think the low end SD 7xx boxes 744t and below now are competeing with the new Zaxcom Nomad boxes which are priced considerably lower for the similar capabilities.

4 track Zaxcom is $3300 and is upgradable to more tracks
744t is $4200

SD should lower there prices to match this competition.

I do not think SD competes with the PMD series or Tascam Dr-680.
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Offline page

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2011, 10:11:50 AM »
The 7xx boxes were not designed for the taper market, or even the professional location recording engineer; they were designed for the film and video sound mixer.  A sound mixer's primary concern is that his equipment be dependable.  If I blow a recording it's embarrassing and may cost me my next job.  If a film sound mixer misses a take it could cost thousands to hundreds of thousands of dollars.  For example, the sound for the film "The Dark Knight" was recorded with a 788T.  In that film they blow up a hospital and there is no second take for that scene.  7xx recorders are often used for ENG and scientific purposes under extreme conditions where failure is not an option.  It just so happens that the 7xx boxes sound pretty good too.

The 7xx competition is not a PMD661 but rather recorders from Aaton, Zaxcom, and Nagra.  Compared to recorders from those companies, the Sound Devices boxes are often less expensive.

This is it, of all of the gear I've used; I can guarantee that I can turn out a recording at the end of the night, that's not necessarily true with others. Yes, there is a high likelihood of others working, but with dual media and dual power supplies for redundancy, plus the odds of something outright failing like the P48 section of the machine is really slim...

It's just the difference between a pro-sumer box and a professional box.

Do we need that for recording? The vast majority, no, but that doesn't mean it's a bad box.

If I took a BMW to work and a bicycle the next, would anyone even know the difference if I didn't tell them?  I understand the professional use/reliability aspect of it, but if the pre is so good in an SD 7XX, why do most run a V2, V3, or other pre with it?

Because it's just TS that rags hard on the preamps. Go talk over at GS or some of the nature sites, sure, some don't like them (e.g. the nagrists), but it's a minority that complain. What sort of sound do you want is the grand question? The SD preamps are really clean and rather dry (which is the typical complaint) but that's the intent for overdubs or other work where you're stacking audio or replacing sections and want the gear used to sound seamless. With what we do, folks often prefer some analog/harmonic distortion or some other textural addition (which could be considered a form of distortion I guess) to their recording, but we're really just hunting for flavor, not necessity at that point.

For a couple of years I ran my stuff straight into the 722 and was happy. I only have a preamp now because of odd circumstances (more "it found me" sort of thing), not because I went looking for it. I can get great recordings now, and unpleasant recordings (texture/flavor-wise), but I got consistently (just) good recordings with just the 722.

I had a discussion with a fellow 722 owner last night. At this stage, you can pick up the usbpre2 and a D50 (all new) for about half the list price of a 722 and get the same sound and many of the same functions. The catch; you have one more link to worry about, no redundancy in the power dept, and no redundancy in the medium department. For 95% of our concert taping, that's fine (guestlisting or contract work being that last sliver). If someone likes the SD sound, that’s the route to go now, so if you're not doing mission critical stuff where it would be hideously embarrassing to come back and say "hey, sorry, my gear died" at the end of the event, the 7 series really doesn't hold much for you, but there are few professional jobs which would consider that option viable. The only reason I'm keeping mine is because I'm still doing around 10 or so shows a year where I absolutely need something at the end, otherwise I'd make the switch.

edit: spellcheck in IE would be nice... (and clarification added).
« Last Edit: June 13, 2011, 10:21:07 AM by page »
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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2011, 10:15:45 AM »
Throw a PMD-661 or a Tascam DR-680 against a brick wall and it will probably shatter and shit will go flying everywhere.

Throw a 7xx and it will probably gouge the wall, bounce off and keep recording. 

As for the competing with Zaxcom, it is true but I'm not sold on the Nomad just yet.  Really it's priced almost the same as the Sound Devices stuff when you look closely (4 channel Nomad @ $3300 has no digital input from what I can tell, the 8 channel is $5500 so it's not exactly a world apart in pricing).  Many have commented on the Zaxcom analog front end as being OK but not stellar - this is also something to consider.  I'd love to hear a comp between SD and Zaxcom sometime.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
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Offline sunset

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2011, 10:56:15 AM »
 Besides the pre's,craftsmanship and other things mentioned here.I love the fact it's made in America and the customer service is excellent.If I had to send my 788t to be fixed in Europe or elsewhere(the reason I didn't go Nagra,even though the pre's excellent),I have a feeling I would be waiting a long time to get back my deck.If you have never used a SD 7xx,I suggest you play with one and then you'll know the difference.Although,any deck can be used as a bit bucket with a V2,V3 or any other pre.   

Offline johnw

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2011, 11:13:02 AM »
Just because the SD 7xx have been out for 6 years doesn't mean they are outdated. They have every feature that any other recorder has (the Zaxcom doesn't even go past 48 kHz!). The 722, 744 and 702 are not much bigger than a 661 (although the layout is different). When I buy another full size recorder, it will be another Sound Devices.
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