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Author Topic: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?  (Read 16853 times)

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Offline brewcrew87

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Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« on: June 12, 2011, 07:08:15 PM »
this may be a stupid question, but what makes the sound devices 7 series so good that people plunk down $2500 and up, when a PMD 661 is around $600? i may be ignorant, could someone enlighten me as to what the benefits of sound devices are- i have been to the SD website and cant make sense of it

Offline johnw

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2011, 07:43:48 PM »
Extremely well engineered layout with excellent customer service in a well thought out device that will perform flawlessly in every recording condition. Plus they were one of the first widely available solid state recorders on the market, so they could pick any price point.

But the same question could be asked why Schoeps are so much more expensive than some of the competing small diameter microphones.

Bottom line, they are that expensive because that is what people will pay.
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Offline brewcrew87

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2011, 07:58:36 PM »
theres no doubt they are second to none in design and durability and easy of use etc...just seems like the recorder would have less of an impact on the sound then the pre amp or mics

Offline acidjack

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2011, 09:04:36 PM »
I've wondered this for years. I think it's several things. For one- US manufacture. Like European mics that are handmade, that is a lot of man hours by people with higher salaries than Chinese factory workers by ordes of magnitude. The primary costs on the gear are engineering/r&d and labor. SD is high in both.

And yes, like Schoeps, they have the absolute top reputation and top service. Why does BMW command a premium? Same deal- longstanding reputation as a better product. Competitors may make gear that competes and even bests once in awhile- but SD is established as a consistent performer.

Also, SD gear is believed to have built-in pres that rival HQ standalone ones. I don't think that is said of most other all in one boxes.

I wish they were cheaper :)
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Offline Belexes

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2011, 09:43:09 PM »
I don't get it either. *shrugs*  A solid state recorder is a solid state recorder.  Spend the big bucks on mics + pre.
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Offline H₂O

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2011, 09:45:12 PM »
I think they need to either lower the prices of the older models or come out with a new cheaper line to replace these aging recorders.

They are great but they have been on the market for 6 years now and alot has changed in the past 6 years.

There is alot of great things in these recorders (size, durablity, customer support, etc) and alot to be desired (better pre-amps, better display, better menu system, no hard drive, etc) IMO.

I am leaving the 788 out of this discussion - I think with that it is at the right price point - although it would be nice to see a sub $5k version of this recorder.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2011, 09:57:31 PM by H²O »
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Offline notlance

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2011, 10:13:18 PM »
The 7xx boxes were not designed for the taper market, or even the professional location recording engineer; they were designed for the film and video sound mixer.  A sound mixer's primary concern is that his equipment be dependable.  If I blow a recording it's embarrassing and may cost me my next job.  If a film sound mixer misses a take it could cost thousands to hundreds of thousands of dollars.  For example, the sound for the film "The Dark Knight" was recorded with a 788T.  In that film they blow up a hospital and there is no second take for that scene.  7xx recorders are often used for ENG and scientific purposes under extreme conditions where failure is not an option.  It just so happens that the 7xx boxes sound pretty good too.

The 7xx competition is not a PMD661 but rather recorders from Aaton, Zaxcom, and Nagra.  Compared to recorders from those companies, the Sound Devices boxes are often less expensive.

Offline FrozenSounds

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2011, 10:16:39 PM »
The have earned a standing that's a close second to Nagra ( see how you like their prices  :o ).

In the link below; vs the PM661, the SD preamps are 5dB quieter and it has 11dB more dynamic range. http://www.avisoft.com/recordertests.htm.

The ability to cascase multiple recorders with common synchronous timing and clocks is nice.
( though I can't work out how to monitor the audio from both without an external headphone switch )

Never used the digital IO ports so can't comment how useful they are.
For video/film professionals the 'T'  timecode option makes sense.

The 702 at $1875 is probably the best option rather than the $2500 702T ; two of them cost less than the 744T which only has 2 pre-amps with full performance ( but adds time code ).


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Offline John Willett

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2011, 04:22:28 AM »
The Sound Devices are extremely well engineered.

A friend of mine was a Beta tester of the original 744T - he sent it back in bits as it was not capable (then) of doing a professional job.  Sound Devices delayed release for about a year while they worked on all the issues that he found and came out with a superb machine that fully does the job it was designed for.

The new AETA 4MinX is in the same ball-park price bracket and is also very tough.

So it is actually not expensive at all - it's the right price for what it is.

In audio quality it probably comes third after Nagra and AETA, but streets ahead of virtually everything else.  The only other that comes close is the Aaton Cantar, but that's even more expensive.

Comparing the SD with the PMD 661 is like comparing a BMW with a push-bike.


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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2011, 09:11:29 AM »
If I took a BMW to work and a bicycle the next, would anyone even know the difference if I didn't tell them?  I understand the professional use/reliability aspect of it, but if the pre is so good in an SD 7XX, why do most run a V2, V3, or other pre with it?

I'm just skeptical.  Would like to hear comps of the same mics, same pre, different solid state deck and see if there is a difference and if that difference is worth $2,000+ to the taping hobbyist.
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Offline H₂O

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2011, 09:52:10 AM »
I think the low end SD 7xx boxes 744t and below now are competeing with the new Zaxcom Nomad boxes which are priced considerably lower for the similar capabilities.

4 track Zaxcom is $3300 and is upgradable to more tracks
744t is $4200

SD should lower there prices to match this competition.

I do not think SD competes with the PMD series or Tascam Dr-680.
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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2011, 10:11:50 AM »
The 7xx boxes were not designed for the taper market, or even the professional location recording engineer; they were designed for the film and video sound mixer.  A sound mixer's primary concern is that his equipment be dependable.  If I blow a recording it's embarrassing and may cost me my next job.  If a film sound mixer misses a take it could cost thousands to hundreds of thousands of dollars.  For example, the sound for the film "The Dark Knight" was recorded with a 788T.  In that film they blow up a hospital and there is no second take for that scene.  7xx recorders are often used for ENG and scientific purposes under extreme conditions where failure is not an option.  It just so happens that the 7xx boxes sound pretty good too.

The 7xx competition is not a PMD661 but rather recorders from Aaton, Zaxcom, and Nagra.  Compared to recorders from those companies, the Sound Devices boxes are often less expensive.

This is it, of all of the gear I've used; I can guarantee that I can turn out a recording at the end of the night, that's not necessarily true with others. Yes, there is a high likelihood of others working, but with dual media and dual power supplies for redundancy, plus the odds of something outright failing like the P48 section of the machine is really slim...

It's just the difference between a pro-sumer box and a professional box.

Do we need that for recording? The vast majority, no, but that doesn't mean it's a bad box.

If I took a BMW to work and a bicycle the next, would anyone even know the difference if I didn't tell them?  I understand the professional use/reliability aspect of it, but if the pre is so good in an SD 7XX, why do most run a V2, V3, or other pre with it?

Because it's just TS that rags hard on the preamps. Go talk over at GS or some of the nature sites, sure, some don't like them (e.g. the nagrists), but it's a minority that complain. What sort of sound do you want is the grand question? The SD preamps are really clean and rather dry (which is the typical complaint) but that's the intent for overdubs or other work where you're stacking audio or replacing sections and want the gear used to sound seamless. With what we do, folks often prefer some analog/harmonic distortion or some other textural addition (which could be considered a form of distortion I guess) to their recording, but we're really just hunting for flavor, not necessity at that point.

For a couple of years I ran my stuff straight into the 722 and was happy. I only have a preamp now because of odd circumstances (more "it found me" sort of thing), not because I went looking for it. I can get great recordings now, and unpleasant recordings (texture/flavor-wise), but I got consistently (just) good recordings with just the 722.

I had a discussion with a fellow 722 owner last night. At this stage, you can pick up the usbpre2 and a D50 (all new) for about half the list price of a 722 and get the same sound and many of the same functions. The catch; you have one more link to worry about, no redundancy in the power dept, and no redundancy in the medium department. For 95% of our concert taping, that's fine (guestlisting or contract work being that last sliver). If someone likes the SD sound, that’s the route to go now, so if you're not doing mission critical stuff where it would be hideously embarrassing to come back and say "hey, sorry, my gear died" at the end of the event, the 7 series really doesn't hold much for you, but there are few professional jobs which would consider that option viable. The only reason I'm keeping mine is because I'm still doing around 10 or so shows a year where I absolutely need something at the end, otherwise I'd make the switch.

edit: spellcheck in IE would be nice... (and clarification added).
« Last Edit: June 13, 2011, 10:21:07 AM by page »
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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2011, 10:15:45 AM »
Throw a PMD-661 or a Tascam DR-680 against a brick wall and it will probably shatter and shit will go flying everywhere.

Throw a 7xx and it will probably gouge the wall, bounce off and keep recording. 

As for the competing with Zaxcom, it is true but I'm not sold on the Nomad just yet.  Really it's priced almost the same as the Sound Devices stuff when you look closely (4 channel Nomad @ $3300 has no digital input from what I can tell, the 8 channel is $5500 so it's not exactly a world apart in pricing).  Many have commented on the Zaxcom analog front end as being OK but not stellar - this is also something to consider.  I'd love to hear a comp between SD and Zaxcom sometime.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
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Offline sunset

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2011, 10:56:15 AM »
 Besides the pre's,craftsmanship and other things mentioned here.I love the fact it's made in America and the customer service is excellent.If I had to send my 788t to be fixed in Europe or elsewhere(the reason I didn't go Nagra,even though the pre's excellent),I have a feeling I would be waiting a long time to get back my deck.If you have never used a SD 7xx,I suggest you play with one and then you'll know the difference.Although,any deck can be used as a bit bucket with a V2,V3 or any other pre.   

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2011, 11:13:02 AM »
Just because the SD 7xx have been out for 6 years doesn't mean they are outdated. They have every feature that any other recorder has (the Zaxcom doesn't even go past 48 kHz!). The 722, 744 and 702 are not much bigger than a 661 (although the layout is different). When I buy another full size recorder, it will be another Sound Devices.
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Offline H₂O

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2011, 11:28:11 AM »
I had a SD702 and thought it was a nice recorder but the preamps where not as good as the Grace pre amps nor my PSP-2 (although that is an entirely different design).

I sold mine because IMO it was not the All in one I was looking for and I would always want to run a Pre infront.

Zaxcom is supposedly going to support up to 96Khz and possibly 192 - it's just not shown so in the current specs.


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Offline Teen Wolf Blitzer

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2011, 11:30:28 AM »
Made in America!!!  Portabrace, Grace, SD.  Love all 3.  Only thing I don't own American made is my mics but then there are really no American made mics anymore anyway.  Been running my 744 for 4 years now.  Not one problem ever.  And I've already rolled over the track numbers on it.  That's a lot of hours.  By contrast my R4 had issues from day 1.  Everytime I think about selling the 744 and getting the 680 I'm too scared to do it frankly.

Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2011, 11:30:51 AM »
Just because the SD 7xx have been out for 6 years doesn't mean they are outdated.

Agreed.  I really don't see anything that needs changing on a 7xx.

Also, their product philosophy is to release software and hardware updates for anything that needs a fix.  Rather than the consumer approach - "we'll keep releasing new models, obsoleting the old, and get people to buy them!"

Their service and support are incredible.  And you can talk to the company president.

The 661?  The controls are on the side.  So you can't even run it in a bag or in a rack.

Regarding pre-amps... A lot of the hardcore gearslutz crowd spends a thousand or more per channel.

Offline hi and lo

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2011, 11:47:08 AM »
The only thing I think is 'outdated' about the 7xx series is the same feature I've never liked... the battery. I don't like how those batteries stick out like a tumor and six years later, my gut tells me it would be entirely possible to shrink the footprint of the internal electronics to support a different layout and possibly an internal powering solution.

Otherwise, they're still great recorders. The prices could stand to come down, but I don't think the feature sets are outdated in the slightest.




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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2011, 11:50:04 AM »
^ They better not pull an Edirol and cut the price.  That right there really pissed me off.  Instantly lost half my investment in that machine.

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2011, 11:55:10 AM »
Besides the pre's,craftsmanship and other things mentioned here.I love the fact it's made in America and the customer service is excellent.

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2011, 11:59:06 AM »
The only thing I think is 'outdated' about the 7xx series is the same feature I've never liked... the battery. I don't like how those batteries stick out like a tumor

I quite like the battery arrangement - other than needing something to poke the recessed release pin.
The standard 2Ah is flush, but sure the 4Ah and 6.5Ah packs stick out, but when the recorder is suspended in a case that's not a issue.
I also like that small and light external AC/12V chargers from CTA  are only $12 from Amazon.
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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2011, 12:04:17 PM »
If I took a BMW to work and a bicycle the next, would anyone even know the difference if I didn't tell them?  I understand the professional use/reliability aspect of it, but if the pre is so good in an SD 7XX, why do most run a V2, V3, or other pre with it?

Because it's just TS that rags hard on the preamps. Go talk over at GS or some of the nature sites, sure, some don't like them (e.g. the nagrists), but it's a minority that complain. What sort of sound do you want is the grand question?


I was one of the one who didn't like the sound of the SD compared to the portico or V3. Mostly with the V3 I think it was because I am fond of the sound with KM143s. With the portico, I really like the silk option and so thats what I run mostly now. 

But I will say that I've changed my mind about the 722 preamps.  IIRC Gunnar was the one who recommended that they sound better when run at lower levels instead of hot. I do that now and I believe that there is an improvement in the sound.  I will run straight into the 722 anytime I need to be small and come away happy. As a stand alone box with good mics in front of it, the 722 is a fantastic box.

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2011, 12:08:56 PM »
The only thing I think is 'outdated' about the 7xx series is the same feature I've never liked... the battery. I don't like how those batteries stick out like a tumor and six years later, my gut tells me it would be entirely possible to shrink the footprint of the internal electronics to support a different layout and possibly an internal powering solution.

I think the commodity lithium battery setup is great.  What other lithium pack could they run that continues to be widely available many years after the product was introduced?

Sure, it'd be nice if the larger batteries did not stick out.  But those lithium batteries need to stay cool.  So putting them on the bottom, and hanging them out, helps maintain battery life and reliability.


In terms of prices needing to come down... I don't see where they have any competition, so why would they lower prices?   Also, the resale values are excellent.


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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2011, 12:23:40 PM »
Here's a thought.  If more people supported American made products....the price would come down.  That's part of the issue with why our economy is in the shitter now.  Everyone wants it on the cheap.

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2011, 12:31:53 PM »
i guess it comes down to why buy a mercedes or audi when you could buy a toyota corolla...both do the exact same thing, get you where you need to go, but i guess there is something to be said for owning a nice car

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2011, 12:42:28 PM »
^ They better not pull an Edirol and cut the price.  That right there really pissed me off.  Instantly lost half my investment in that machine.

Well I don't think you should buy recorders for their investment value because in the end they will break and eventually be outdated but one thing you should invest in is gold. :-D
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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2011, 12:44:07 PM »
i guess it comes down to why buy a mercedes or audi when you could buy a toyota corolla...both do the exact same thing, get you where you need to go, but i guess there is something to be said for owning a nice car

I wouldn't know about owning a nice car since I've only owned one but people and the professional industry likes the sD 7xx recorders for the multiple reasons listed throughout this post.
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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2011, 12:49:36 PM »
If I took a BMW to work and a bicycle the next, would anyone even know the difference if I didn't tell them?  I understand the professional use/reliability aspect of it, but if the pre is so good in an SD 7XX, why do most run a V2, V3, or other pre with it?

I'm just skeptical.  Would like to hear comps of the same mics, same pre, different solid state deck and see if there is a difference and if that difference is worth $2,000+ to the taping hobbyist.

I think Page summarized this best... the answer to your question would basically be, running digi-in, there is no difference.  There is no difference between my USBpre2>digi-in>R-44 than a 722, sound-wise.   But if I had unlimited money, I'd run the 722 for the higher reliability and the other factors Page mentioned.  But I'm a hobbyist, my R-44 has never died on me (nothing has ever died on me other than for user error except the DR-680 and an old 660 running off batteries), and money is finite.  I can also switch out different pres to use with the -44 if I want different sound.  Of course, if I use an analog pre, the A>D on the -44 is undoubtedly worse than on the SD boxes.

The guys running SD boxes have an elite-level product that is easy to use and rugged and US-made and great at what it does; I don't begrudge anyone buying one.  Would I spend that $$$ on an SD box before I had, say, top-end mics?  no.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2011, 01:41:43 PM »
That's not what I meant.  :P  I'm sure you know that.  MY point was I payed $1500 for the machine and a year later it was $750.  A year!  I was lucky to get $500 for it when I sold it.

^ They better not pull an Edirol and cut the price.  That right there really pissed me off.  Instantly lost half my investment in that machine.

Well I don't think you should buy recorders for their investment value because in the end they will break and eventually be outdated but one thing you should invest in is gold. :-D

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2011, 01:54:15 PM »
The minute I used my first Sound Devices 7xx machine I knew I'd been kidding myself that the other recorders I owned were on par or a better value for the money for what I was doing.  I do use my stuff in a "hobby" capacity, but it also gets a lot of business use as well and the reliability is the most important thing to me.  Not to mention that you can run the recording to 3 different mediums simultaneously for safety's sake.  We have always done a lot of audio for video and when I was just starting out I worked with folks who barely knew what tc was, so all the post work sync was done by hand.  Now that I am finding myself working with more professional crews, the ability to send tc to a slate and sync the entire production is a feature I can never do without again...!

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2011, 02:01:06 PM »
Why did the DA-P1 cost 2x as much as a d8?  Why was the Sony D10 so much more than a DA-P1?


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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2011, 02:14:47 PM »
^ I remember plunking down $4500 for a DAP1, V2 and 460's back in 1996.   :crying:

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2011, 02:15:18 PM »
Not to mention that you can run the recording to 3 different mediums simultaneously for safety's sake.

I think I'm a little more sensitive to the power and media features then some others because I've lost power during shows twice (once was even a "would you tape this" by a promoter, the other was one of my wife's favorite bands) and I've had a hdd crash during a show (thankfully nothing critical). Others may not be as worried (read: paranoid) and that's understandable. I don't stake down my stand at every outdoor show, but I know folks who do and they do it because they've had a bad experience before and remember that.
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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #34 on: June 13, 2011, 06:00:14 PM »
If I took a BMW to work and a bicycle the next, would anyone even know the difference if I didn't tell them?  I understand the professional use/reliability aspect of it, but if the pre is so good in an SD 7XX, why do most run a V2, V3, or other pre with it?

I'm just skeptical.  Would like to hear comps of the same mics, same pre, different solid state deck and see if there is a difference and if that difference is worth $2,000+ to the taping hobbyist.

I think Page summarized this best... the answer to your question would basically be, running digi-in, there is no difference.  There is no difference between my USBpre2>digi-in>R-44 than a 722, sound-wise.   But if I had unlimited money, I'd run the 722 for the higher reliability and the other factors Page mentioned.  But I'm a hobbyist, my R-44 has never died on me (nothing has ever died on me other than for user error except the DR-680 and an old 660 running off batteries), and money is finite.  I can also switch out different pres to use with the -44 if I want different sound.  Of course, if I use an analog pre, the A>D on the -44 is undoubtedly worse than on the SD boxes.

The guys running SD boxes have an elite-level product that is easy to use and rugged and US-made and great at what it does; I don't begrudge anyone buying one.  Would I spend that $$$ on an SD box before I had, say, top-end mics?  no.

mixpre-D= 749$ + R44=995$  = 1744$  for an extra 131$ your into a SD702....the bulit quality is much better than a R44...but minus the 4 track....
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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2011, 11:42:33 PM »
If I took a BMW to work and a bicycle the next, would anyone even know the difference if I didn't tell them?  I understand the professional use/reliability aspect of it, but if the pre is so good in an SD 7XX, why do most run a V2, V3, or other pre with it?

I'm just skeptical.  Would like to hear comps of the same mics, same pre, different solid state deck and see if there is a difference and if that difference is worth $2,000+ to the taping hobbyist.

I think Page summarized this best... the answer to your question would basically be, running digi-in, there is no difference.  There is no difference between my USBpre2>digi-in>R-44 than a 722, sound-wise.   But if I had unlimited money, I'd run the 722 for the higher reliability and the other factors Page mentioned.  But I'm a hobbyist, my R-44 has never died on me (nothing has ever died on me other than for user error except the DR-680 and an old 660 running off batteries), and money is finite.  I can also switch out different pres to use with the -44 if I want different sound.  Of course, if I use an analog pre, the A>D on the -44 is undoubtedly worse than on the SD boxes.

The guys running SD boxes have an elite-level product that is easy to use and rugged and US-made and great at what it does; I don't begrudge anyone buying one.  Would I spend that $$$ on an SD box before I had, say, top-end mics?  no.

mixpre-D= 749$ + R44=995$  = 1744$  for an extra 131$ your into a SD702....the bulit quality is much better than a R44...but minus the 4 track....

A much better comp is usbpre2 > d50 (2ch, transformerless, same AD) vs a 702 at a price difference of almost $800. Now, you could sort of compare a mixpreD/R44 vs a 744, but even that's not quite as accurate. 2x pre2>d50 rigs and run the spare SPDIF out from one to the other while using both opticals for the d50s and get a 744 with twice the size, but 4 preamps, and half the cost.
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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #36 on: June 14, 2011, 03:11:31 AM »
The SD range get the right balance for what they were designed to do - as a reliable film and TV location recorder.

Nagra have the better quality analogue audio, but the size is larger.

AETA also have superb mic. pres., and are extremely rugged (looking forward to trying this one).

The SD are probably next in analogue quality.

All these three are superb and you choose the one that has the best balance for you.

Zaxcom, I would not buy myself.  Although their ergonomics and digital engineering is excellent, the analogue side is really not up to it I have heard.  If Zaxcom start employing top notch analogue engineers to sort that side out, then, I would say they would be a serious contender.


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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #37 on: June 14, 2011, 09:15:08 AM »
I still think the older 7xx series is in need of a refresh - with the following additions/changes:
 - better preamps
 - AES42
 - Color display
 - flash only versions of 4+ channel
 - USB 2.0 A/B
 - 788 style iPad/iPod integration
 - additional mix down/digital only channels
 - better menus/interface (sub menus, etc)

Most newer recorders the 7xx series are competing against have many of the above features

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #38 on: June 14, 2011, 12:55:54 PM »
Quote
mixpre-D= 749$ + R44=995$  = 1744$  for an extra 131$ your into a SD702....the bulit quality is much better than a R44...but minus the 4 track....

Agree. And that last part is why I still run the -44.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #39 on: June 14, 2011, 11:13:58 PM »
Not to mention that you can run the recording to 3 different mediums simultaneously for safety's sake.

I think I'm a little more sensitive to the power and media features then some others because I've lost power during shows twice (once was even a "would you tape this" by a promoter, the other was one of my wife's favorite bands) and I've had a hdd crash during a show (thankfully nothing critical). Others may not be as worried (read: paranoid) and that's understandable. I don't stake down my stand at every outdoor show, but I know folks who do and they do it because they've had a bad experience before and remember that.

You'd better get into the habit of "tent staking" your stand down at outdoor shows ;)

And I was contemplating selling my 722 because I loved how my LB>M10 setup sounded, but then I realized I wouldnt get as much as I would want for it,. and it sounds PHUCKING AWESOME, so I'm going to hold onto it for when the AKG Actives start rolling :)
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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #40 on: June 15, 2011, 12:37:36 PM »
Why did the DA-P1 cost 2x as much as a d8?  Why was the Sony D10 so much more than a DA-P1?

One thing to note IMO the DA-P1 was JUNK.  Mine was in the shop more than it was in the field - I am just glad I dumped it before the market really took a dive.  My D8 was much more dependable than my P1.

If I could turn the clock back I would have spent the extra $1K and gotten the portadat.

But just because a deck is expensive doesn't mean it is better.  And as I have said the 7xx are tanks.
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Offline Todd R

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #41 on: June 15, 2011, 01:41:48 PM »
I had a SD702 and thought it was a nice recorder but the preamps where not as good as the Grace pre amps nor my PSP-2 (although that is an entirely different design).

I sold mine because IMO it was not the All in one I was looking for and I would always want to run a Pre infront.

Zaxcom is supposedly going to support up to 96Khz and possibly 192 - it's just not shown so in the current specs.

x2

I owned and ran both the 722 and later the 702.  While I thought they sounded very good as all-in-one boxes, I still preferred my V3 in front.  Later I sold the V3 and got a PSP2 and also preferred it to the 7xx preamps.  I had always been feeling that the 7xx had a bit more bloated or loose bass/low-end (just a tiny, tiny bit, but enough that I preferred the V3), but that may be because I was comparing it to the V3 that I had been running for years before getting a 722.

As Itgoes11 has been saying lately, it may be that the V3 rolls the bass off a bit. That may well be the case, and it might be that the 722 is actually more accurate than the V3.  But I almost exclusively record PA-driven concerts with overblown subwoofers cranking, so the V3, rolloff or not, sounded better to me than the 722.

That said, to me the 722/702 along with the V3 were the favorite pieces of gear I've ever owned (well, excluding mics).  Just fantastic pieces of art, design, engineering, implementation, etc.  I totally see the price SD gets for the 7xx boxes, I just don't see as much the need for that as a hobbyist concert taper.  I'm disappointed if I screw up a recording, but nobody is ever relying on me and there are almost always other tapers out recording anyway.

For me, I bought a Sony D50 -- also one of my favorite pieces of gear -- totally rock solid and reliable after years of taping.  The optical digital connection is a bit of a concern (though I haven't had a problem), but the D50 has been 100% reliable, and also well-engineered and good sounding.  Anyway, I sold the 702 for about $1700 iirc, bought the D50 used for $350, and with the difference was able to buy a used set of Gefell m210 hypers.

I loved the 702/722, but I don't ever see going back.  Rather have more mics and preamps at my disposal.
Mics: Microtech Gefell m20/m21 (nbob/pfa actives), Line Audio CM3, Church CA-11 cards
Preamp:  none <sniff>
Recorders:  Sound Devices MixPre-6, Sony PCM-M10, Zoom H4nPro

Offline noam

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #42 on: July 17, 2011, 10:17:05 AM »
, my gut tells me it would be entirely possible to shrink the footprint of the internal electronics to support a different layout and possibly an internal powering solution.

Otherwise, they're still great recorders. The prices could stand to come down, but I don't think the feature sets are outdated in the slightest.

Exactly. Once I used the 702 I can't go back, but I desparately need a box that delivers the same quality, same features (including P48) at half the size (or even less).

Is there a way to phantom power the sony pcm-m10?

Noam

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #43 on: July 17, 2011, 12:39:33 PM »
Exactly. Once I used the 702 I can't go back, but I desparately need a box that delivers the same quality, same features (including P48) at half the size (or even less).

Is there a way to phantom power the sony pcm-m10?

Noam

Well, the M10 would probably fry to a crisp if you put 48 volts through it. :)

You could certainly put a preamp with phantom in front of the M10, though. I've heard a few Littlebox/M10 pulls and it's a winning combination - for that matter, I've had lovely results with my Littlebox/LS-10 combo.
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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #44 on: July 17, 2011, 12:41:57 PM »
You might want to look at the used Marantz pmd 661 in the Yard Sale.  That sounds like the device you are looking for.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=146969.0

, my gut tells me it would be entirely possible to shrink the footprint of the internal electronics to support a different layout and possibly an internal powering solution.

Otherwise, they're still great recorders. The prices could stand to come down, but I don't think the feature sets are outdated in the slightest.

Exactly. Once I used the 702 I can't go back, but I desparately need a box that delivers the same quality, same features (including P48) at half the size (or even less).

Is there a way to phantom power the sony pcm-m10?

Noam
« Last Edit: July 17, 2011, 12:43:42 PM by jmbell »
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Preamps: DPA MMA 6000 | Audioroot Femto
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre-10 II | Sony PCM A10

-20        -12         -6        TDS   (32/48)     
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__________________________
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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #45 on: July 17, 2011, 01:03:03 PM »
The 7xx competition is not a PMD661 but rather recorders from Aaton, Zaxcom, and Nagra.  Compared to recorders from those companies, the Sound Devices boxes are often less expensive.

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #46 on: July 17, 2011, 01:35:57 PM »
You might want to look at the used Marantz pmd 661 in the Yard Sale.  That sounds like the device you are looking for.


I read somewhere here that the Marantz pmd 661 is noisy.

Noam

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #47 on: July 17, 2011, 02:33:49 PM »
I have only heard good things about the 661 and never heard it is noisy!!   

You might want to look at the used Marantz pmd 661 in the Yard Sale.  That sounds like the device you are looking for.


I read somewhere here that the Marantz pmd 661 is noisy.

Noam
Mics: DPA ST4011ER & 4018ER | Neumann kk 184 (matched)> Nbob/PFA
Preamps: DPA MMA 6000 | Audioroot Femto
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre-10 II | Sony PCM A10

-20        -12         -6        TDS   (32/48)     
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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #48 on: October 04, 2011, 05:17:37 AM »
My update wishlist for the 702 recorder:

- USB instead of FireWire with more robust USB 3 socket as on USBpre 2
- Ability to act as a mass storage device or as a USB computer audio interface just as the MixPre-D
- Two CF card slots with the ability of
a) relay recording (record to second card when first becomes full)
b) simultanous recording to both cards for instant backup
- Lower power consumption

Same form factor, same professional look.

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #49 on: October 04, 2011, 11:34:59 AM »
My update wishlist for the 702 recorder:

- USB instead of FireWire with more robust USB 3 socket as on USBpre 2
- Ability to act as a mass storage device or as a USB computer audio interface just as the MixPre-D
- Two CF card slots with the ability of
a) relay recording (record to second card when first becomes full)
b) simultanous recording to both cards for instant backup
- Lower power consumption

Same form factor, same professional look.

That's a nice list!

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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #50 on: October 04, 2011, 01:35:29 PM »
I'd love a USB port of any size, and lower power consumption. Although I have used the firewire ability to have the 722 act as a "master" in the chain, I havn't needed it often enough to warrent keeping it over a USB connection (I am cursed with one of the few mac laptops that doesn't have firewire).
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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #51 on: October 04, 2011, 08:00:35 PM »
The second CF card will never happen. The mechanical redesign issues would be too costly and in any case the 702 is already a consumer-cost reduced version for people unable or unwilling to put out the money for the higher capacity internal device versions.  If you need more capacity, buy a 722 and put in a big SSD.  Of course the 7xx devices will write to FLAC if you really need the extra space with what you currently have.  If you want a live back-up, the 722 will record to internal drive and compact flash simultaneously.  The newer versions of 722 firmware also write to firewire devices in parallel. So maybe just upgrading to the more feature rich current machine would meet half your list.

I'm not really sure what you mean by "act as a mass storage device'.  I load my 722 with other files all the time instead of carry a second external storage device when I'm on the road.  I've used it to park files from a camera when I needed to dump the video recorder each night and still used it to record sound the next day.

As for lower power, there is a tradeoff when selecting components and design.  They could likely reduce power consumption but there will be a complementary compromise in the quality of the resulting system. It's not like they are power hogs anyway. I run an external preamp with it's own power supply so I get seven hours between battery changes on the 722. That seems pretty good.
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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #52 on: October 04, 2011, 10:41:29 PM »
As for lower power, there is a tradeoff when selecting components and design.  They could likely reduce power consumption but there will be a complementary compromise in the quality of the resulting system. It's not like they are power hogs anyway. I run an external preamp with it's own power supply so I get seven hours between battery changes on the 722. That seems pretty good.

true, but the 722 sitting idle draws more in both volts and amps than the usbpre2 does (which is essentially a recorder-less 702) by a significant amount. 5v and 1 amp if you've got every possible power sucker turned on and using earthworks mics. True, it may not be as robust in it's failover capabilities, but it accomplishes the same goal minus the storage element.

I still think the 7 series are excellent machines. Not much I'd change about them, but there are a couple.
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Re: Sound Devices 7xx series- why are they so expensive?
« Reply #53 on: October 06, 2011, 05:34:36 PM »
why did we pay so much for r portadats?  not much more to say.  ed
needin some fishhead music!

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