Topic: Self noise of Sony PCM D50 vs Zoom H2 (With audio example)

[skies]

After very long consideration I decided to get a PCM D50. The main reason was, that my beloved Zoom H2 had just too much self noise for recording ambient sounds and atmospheres.* I have owned a Sony PCM M10 (with very low self noise!), but sold it again because the stereo field was too narrow. To my big surprise, it seems the D50 has almost as much noise as the Zoom H2. I don't really understand this as I thought the self noise was only slightly higher as that of the M10. Can anyone confirm this?

In the link is an MP3 file with several samples of atmospheres. Every time you first hear the D50, followed by the H2. The H2 has a slightly sharper self noise but the noise you hear in the second fragment is really self noise (not ambiance)**. I've put the D50 under a pillow and it still sounded the same. Also I've compared it with a (mono) Rode NT1-A (one of the quietest mics out there) and the difference is very obvious.

http://www.mdbsite.com/z/sony-pcm-d50-vs-zoom-h2.mp3

*I carry this recorder almost always with me to record unexpected sounds and ambiances for my personal sound library for post production.
** In the last fragment however, the D50 picks up some additional high frequent sound of a noisy power adapter.

[ilduclo]

are you using the d50 at 24 bit? I find almost zero noise at that setting for various quiet settings.....

[skies]

Yes, these recordings where made at 48kHz 24bit for both recorders. I also tried 44k and 96k as well as 16bit.. (no audible difference.)

[ilduclo]

wow, mine sure doesn't sound that crappy. maybe you got a bad one?

[skies]

I don't know but I'm going to return it. Please note that some of there recordings where made in really quiet environments, and the Zoom H2 is already one of the quieter recorders (it's self noise is equivalant of that of and Audio Technica AT822 and DPA 5100(!!). But I expected the Sony PCM D50 to be more quiet, that's also how I remember it.

[page]

1) If your going to test self-noise of the unit itself, you need a set of resistors.
2) It sounds like your testing the onboard mics. Most of our experiences here with the units are running seperate mics so our perceptions about noise may (well, probably) be rather different.

[skies]

1) If your going to test self-noise of the unit itself, you need a set of resistors.

There is only one way of testing self noise of the internal mics and that is listening to it, in my opinion. I played a band limited pink noise and recorded that (same distance etc.) on both recorders and used this to make the playback volume of the two recorders identical in post. (And the Sony recording level was not too low. In fact it was recorded louder than the Zoom). Of course I'm testing the onboard mics. As noted, I use it to carry with me to record unexpected sounds.

By the way does anybody ever record with the 0-20 pad switch at 0 (loud)? It's rather useless as the recording volume is way too loud unless you set it to at least 4 or so. I was also terribly disappointed by the 'limiter' which seems to be a hard drop/rise in volume that's making clicks and pops when it's at work.

[page]

1) If your going to test self-noise of the unit itself, you need a set of resistors.

There is only one way of testing self noise of the internal mics and that is listening to it, in my opinion.

I agree if your testing the mics that come with it, I'm refering to just the unit (preamps/adc), not the mics plus unit. Just a misunderstanding is all.

[skies]

I understand

[Ozpeter]

Another way of getting an impression of the noise performance of built in mics is to record a ticking clock in a very quiet room.  The clock ticks will give you the means to get the levels of the two recordings to match (reasonably closely at the outset, then normalise the two in a DAW) but will not obscure the background noise.  Of course you need to be sure that the mic-to-clock distance of the two recordings is identical.