Topic: Edirol r-09 UNITY and input level set at 8, can it be set lower and still record

[bluntforcetrauma]

hello if  i am using a pre amp into the edirol r-09 can i go below the UNITY gain of input level 8.  The reason is that at a 20db gain from the pre amp i still clip when the edirol input level was at 9.

so i want to put the input level to like 6 --so i dont clip

i dont know the total working definition of UNITY.


please advise

[udovdh]

level 8 is not unity gain.

The unit gain situation is where the opamps in the recorder don't amplify nor attenuate the signal. They only add a hopefully minimal dose of noise.

[Belexes]

Control your gain structure from the pre and lower it from +20 db if at all possible.

[bluntforcetrauma]

Control your gain structure from the pre and lower it from +20 db if at all possible.

1. so i should set the sonosax sm-m2 pre less than 20db?

right now i have the sonosax sx-m2 set at 20db and the edirol r-09 at 8 input level.

2. so is should lower the preamp?

3. could I go with the edirol at a level input of 6?

4. what is the UNITY on the edirol r-09?

oh please help, i dont want to have any distortion.

[Belexes]

Unity is up for debate from all the threads I have read about it here. It's somewhere between 8 and 13 is where you'll find that happy space with no gain and no attenuation.

Lower the +20 db from your Sonosax. That may be good for acoustic/quiet type stuff, but it seems whatever you are recording is louder.

With my ST-9100 > R-09 at loud concerts, I set the R-09 between 8-13 and add very little gain from the pre to get to -6 to -3 db peaks.  If I set it at +20, it would distort like a mother**cker.

[bluntforcetrauma]

Unity is up for debate from all the threads I have read about it here. It's somewhere between 8 and 13 is where you'll find that happy space with no gain and no attenuation.

Lower the +20 db from your Sonosax. That may be good for acoustic/quiet type stuff, but it seems whatever you are recording is louder.

With my ST-9100 > R-09 at loud concerts, I set the R-09 between 8-13 and add very little gain from the pre to get to -6 to -3 db peaks.  If I set it at +20, it would distort like a mother**cker.

i used +20 db gain from sonosax with R-09 set at 9 at VAn Halen, no distortion jsut like a couple of slight peaks during on or 2 songs but the rest is good.

so i should decrease the +20db?  its hard to check levels (.007)


if you had to becuase i could not get to the sonosax, would it hurt if I needed to drop the r-09 to level 7? *********

help?

[Gutbucket]

Unity is up for debate from all the threads I have read about it here. It's somewhere between 8 and 13 is where you'll find that happy space with no gain and no attenuation.

Lower the +20 db from your Sonosax. That may be good for acoustic/quiet type stuff, but it seems whatever you are recording is louder.

The consensus on the R-09 unity gain setting is falls between 8 and 18.  A new R-09 or one that has been 'reset' to the factory defaults will start-up at level 13.  I typically aim for 15 and bump it up or down a few if necessary. I don't like to run the R-09 below 10 unless I have to attenuate a hot patch, since in doing so I'm eating up the headroom of my preamp.  I don't notice any additional noise running my R-09's gain up to 20 or so (line-in), though I rarely go that high.  Like Belexes says, lower the Sonosax gain so that your levels are where you want them to be on the R-09.  For me that's peaking around -6dB on the R-09's meters with the gain set somewhere in the range of 13-17.  I make up whatever gain I need to get there with my external preamp, how much varies depending on how loud the source is.

I'm recording mostly acoustic and highly dynamic sources that require plenty of headroom.  For some very loud stuff I set my external preamp to 0 dB gain (effectively using it just for powering the mics) and set the R-09's gain wherever it needs to be to get good levels, sometimes that's less than 10.  In that case the R-09 is attenuating the signal and not adding gain.  It really depends on how sensitive your mics are.  Set it wherever you need to get the right signal strength, if that's level 2 so be it.  Just be careful not to go one step farther down to level 1 which effectively mutes the input. 

So the short answer is don't go below 2, but better to keep it up around 13 if you can. 

[ballerusk]

I think there has been 3-4 topics regarding R-09's unity setting. From what I've gathered (from those topics), these are the candidates:

8
13
17/18

Confusing? Not at all haha 

Hopefully I'll find out for myself when I receive mine, guess we'll just have to do some trial and error.

[Belexes]

That settles it. I am trying 13 at the next concert I tape with the R-09.

[bluntforcetrauma]

Unity is up for debate from all the threads I have read about it here. It's somewhere between 8 and 13 is where you'll find that happy space with no gain and no attenuation.

Lower the +20 db from your Sonosax. That may be good for acoustic/quiet type stuff, but it seems whatever you are recording is louder.

The consensus on the R-09 unity gain setting is falls between 8 and 18.  A new R-09 or one that has been 'reset' to the factory defaults will start-up at level 13.  I typically aim for 15 and bump it up or down a few if necessary. I don't like to run the R-09 below 10 unless I have to attenuate a hot patch, since in doing so I'm eating up the headroom of my preamp.  I don't notice any additional noise running my R-09's gain up to 20 or so (line-in), though I rarely go that high.  Like Belexes says, lower the Sonosax gain so that your levels are where you want them to be on the R-09.  For me that's peaking around -6dB on the R-09's meters with the gain set somewhere in the range of 13-17.  I make up whatever gain I need to get there with my external preamp, how much varies depending on how loud the source is.

I'm recording mostly acoustic and highly dynamic sources that require plenty of headroom.  For some very loud stuff I set my external preamp to 0 dB gain (effectively using it just for powering the mics) and set the R-09's gain wherever it needs to be to get good levels, sometimes that's less than 10.  In that case the R-09 is attenuating the signal and not adding gain.  It really depends on how sensitive your mics are.  Set it wherever you need to get the right signal strength, if that's level 2 so be it.  Just be careful not to go one step farther down to level 1 which effectively mutes the input. 

So the short answer is don't go below 2, but better to keep it up around 13 if you can. 

is there a difference between pre amp gain and the edirol gain as far as transparency?

i need to set it and forget it

[Gutbucket]

is there a difference between pre amp gain and the edirol gain as far as transparency?

i need to set it and forget it

Depends on your preamp.  All preamps sound somewhat different like all mics do, though generally to a much lesser extent. The R-09 preamp isn't bad, but your sonosax is probably better (I've never used the sonosax). Typically the idea is to set the recorder's gain around unity (whatever that is, lets just say 13 for now) and make any needed gain with the hopefully better sounding external preamp.

I set and forget too, which is one reason I shoot for peaking around -6db, sometimes even less, and run the R-09 in 24 bit mode.  I can always add gain in post if needed, but a clip is forever.

[SmokinJoe]

I've run the R-09 down around level 3 or 4 when I had a hot board patch, and I didn't notice any ill effects, so 6 is probably OK.  I think the R-09 has pretty substantial headroom...  Don't be afraid of a little red blink once in a while.  When it's on every drum kick then I figure I'm too hot.

[Gutbucket]

^^
True. I don't hear obvious problems with an occasional brief blip of the clip light, especially for amplified stuff with more limited transients and dynamic range. If you are running an external preamp and have the R-09's gain set very low so that it is acting as an attenuator (which would be totally appropriate and often necessary with a board feed) you are asking your external preamp to work harder and are using up more of it's headroom.  That may not be a problem for some preamps with loads of gain, but could be for others.

[digifish_music]

I use 12 and do the rest with a MixPre

digifish

[spyder9]

I really don't think there is Unity setting on the R09 per se.  I've run as low as 5 and as hot as 13 and had no ill effects.  I think Unity is found when tweaking your preamp, to get over the R09's line-level, thus reducing the amount of noise in your recordings and increasing dynamic range.  Thoughts anyone on this?