Topic: dpa 5.1

[Gutbucket]

Those colonial freedom fighters all wore big wigs making their funny hats look small.  But at least they had principled justifications for hiding things in their headwear.  Them pirates are bootleggers, profiting at any expense, no moral backbone.

Give me liberty or give me death!

[guosh86]

will get samples of the 5.1 up soon! sorry for taking so long, i totally forgot about this 

[DF81]

will get samples of the 5.1 up soon! sorry for taking so long, i totally forgot about this 

I would like hear samples even though this post in 5 years old.

This mic/setup is priced at $3,300.  Expensive if it's 6 x 4061's... but not like the tetramic/sps200 I like that it is 'plug and play' - no decoding in post production.

[DF81]

http://www.sounddevices.com/news-events/news/sound-devices-dpa-pair-up-for-on-location-5-1-surround-sound-capture

[Gutbucket]

will get samples of the 5.1 up soon! sorry for taking so long, i totally forgot about this 

I would like hear samples even though this post in 5 years old.

This mic/setup is priced at $3,300.  Expensive if it's 6 x 4061's... but not like the tetramic/sps200 I like that it is 'plug and play' - no decoding in post production.

You can build something which will behave similarly at less cost.  This is targeting simple and compact plug-and-record surround applications with a robust and reliable system attractive to professionals and their workflow. The TetraMic and SPS2000 ambisonic mics are even more compact than a 5100, but require decoding first as you mention.  The output of the 5100 is ready to use in 5.1 format without requiring any decoding.

Actually the 5100 is probably using something more like 3 x 4098 for L/C/R  and 2 x 4060 for sL/sR, rather than 6 x 4061.  The "DiPMic" small interference tube design which was more of a mystery when the 5100 was released is now standard on the 4098H hanging hypercardioid.  I use a those along with 4061s in an un-baffled surround setup, and 4 x 4060 in a baffled setup which is closer to baffles and some of the microphone spacings in the 5100. 

The ambisonic microphones you mention are best for stereo output.  They work for surround, but are less than optimal for 5 (or more) channel surround playback over typical playback arrangements with a non-uniform spacing between speakers.  The problem is that there is insufficient channel separation between those 3 front channels using any coincident microphone technique.  The 5100 will have the same issue since its L/C/R microphones are coincident.  However, when recording ambiances for film and TV, sharp imaging across the front is less critical than it is for music.  And with film sound the center channel is often more or less reserved for dialog anyway, so recording 4 channel surround is sufficient and an ambisonic microphone can work well for that too. 

[DF81]

will get samples of the 5.1 up soon! sorry for taking so long, i totally forgot about this 

I would like hear samples even though this post in 5 years old.

This mic/setup is priced at $3,300.  Expensive if it's 6 x 4061's... but not like the tetramic/sps200 I like that it is 'plug and play' - no decoding in post production.

However, when recording ambiances for film and TV, sharp imaging across the front is less critical than it is for music.  And with film sound the center channel is often more or less reserved for dialog anyway, so recording 4 channel surround is sufficient and an ambisonic microphone can work well for that too.

Interesting.  I've read more on these microphones since I posted, but for non-concert film either setup/mic has decent results.  The DPA 5100 looks awesome, but at $3400 and nothing used on the aftermarket that's just really expensive.  What other accessories would you need for the Tetramic for decoding?  Do you run the 4 XLR cable into a DR-680, H6, SD 744, etc. And 'decode' in post?  Or is there another piece of gear for field use?

Also, regarding the DPA 5100 I've read the mic's used are 5 db's quieter than the 4060's.

[Gutbucket]

The TetraMic and its mini-XLR terminated 4-channel cable are very small.  It requires a four channel recorder.  I use an R-44 or DR-680.  The 680 is better because its channel gains can be ganged together and adjusted simultaneously.  The gain match between channels needs to be kept very close if any change is made.  On the R44 that means either measuring and setting the gains accurately in advance, or recording test tones to each channel after a gain change for gain matching of the files later on the computer before decoding.  The SPS2000 has the same requirement. 

SPS2000 runs directly off P48.  TetraMic is low voltage powered.  The biggest hassle for me with running the TetraMic is powering it through 4 separate supply boxes (identical to the AT PPA supply boxes- run off a single AA or P48).  I have the four PPAs gaff-taped together to form a single block about the size of the R-44 or DR-680, and that connects to either recorder via 1 foot patch cables with right angle XLRs to help minimize the bulk.   There really should be a single powering box with an XLR  fan-out.  I think Core now offers alternate powering solutions but I haven't looked into them.

The 4060 is quiet enough for most any music recording I do, including classical in quiet halls (4061 is not).  I've only had self-noise issues with 4060 on some very low-level ambient nature recording type situations which required much more gain than classical music material.

[DF81]

The TetraMic and its mini-XLR terminated 4-channel cable are very small.  It requires a four channel recorder.  I use an R-44 or DR-680.  The 680 is better because its channel gains can be ganged together and adjusted simultaneously.  The gain match between channels needs to be kept very close if any change is made.  On the R44 that means either measuring and setting the gains accurately in advance, or recording test tones to each channel after a gain change for gain matching of the files later on the computer before decoding.  The SPS2000 has the same requirement. 

SPS2000 runs directly off P48.  TetraMic is low voltage powered.  The biggest hassle for me with running the TetraMic is powering it through 4 separate supply boxes (identical to the AT PPA supply boxes- run off a single AA or P48).  I have the four PPAs gaff-taped together to form a single block about the size of the R-44 or DR-680, and that connects to either recorder via 1 foot patch cables with right angle XLRs to help minimize the bulk.   There really should be a single powering box with an XLR  fan-out.  I think Core now offers alternate powering solutions but I haven't looked into them.

The 4060 is quiet enough for most any music recording I do, including classical in quiet halls (4061 is not).  I've only had self-noise issues with 4060 on some very low-level ambient nature recording type situations which required much more gain than classical music material.

I would take the 5100 route, if the price was $1,000 less - Decent mic's, plug in play, and better work flow in post.

The 4 separate supply boxes for the Tetramic is a deal breaker.  Too much gear for the field.  And after you buy all the accessories you are paying about as much for other surround setups.

[Gutbucket]

Powering is more of a problem that needs to be addressed rather than a deal-breaker for me.  To my way of thinking the TetraMic is a small and unimposing, very versatile, single-point stereo microphone, and its super-small size and low-voltage powering are two potential advantages over the SPS2000 since as Jon mentions you can use 4 powering adapters which can fit inside the XLR housings (his Naiant PFA should work) or build a single 4-ch battery box supply or a single P48 converter supply with a single 6-pin mini-xlr input.  Core may offer something like that now.  I have the 6-pin to 4 x 3-pin_mini-XLR breakout already, used for input to the 4 separate-box powering adapters. 

I'm working on a 4-channel PIP amp with a single 6-pin mini-XLR input, channel trims and ganged channel gains, single 6-pin mini-xlr output and a breakout cable to two stereo mini-plugs.  That will allow me to record into a handheld DR2d recorder without a nest of cables and adapters and will allow the entire recording package to easily fit into a small shaving bag, making for a small, super-versatile up-close stereo recording rig.

I use other spaced setups for recording surround.  IMO spaced setups are generally superior for surround recording of music.  Haven't heard the 5100 and I'm sure it would work fine for that, but I bet spaced configs will better it for serious music recording.  The 5100 does look super convenient and simple to run for direct 5.1 output without hassles, which I think are it's main selling points.