Topic: PCM-D50 vs. R-09HR, 44.1 vs. 88.2

[twoheadedboy]

I'm looking to upgrade from my R-09 and I'm torn between the two decks. The Sony looks great, but only does memory stick and doesn't do 88.2. However, I've been perfectly happy running 24/44.1 on my R-09. Is there much audible difference between 44.1khz and 88.2khz recordings all else being equal? I've also read some things that indicate that the 88.2khz performance of some decks may be less than you might expect and a better recording is made by sticking with 44.1 or 48.

Memory stick isn't a huge deal because I will probably get a new card with whichever deck I get anyway, an 8 GB. to upgrade from my current 4 GB. I'm just not sure how the two units compare. Built-in mics are not a big issue for me, though I will utilize them occasionally for personal demo situations and the off-and-on "ultra stealth" recording. If one is significantly bigger than the other, that would probably be a deal breaker. Also I prefer to use AA batteries, and I'm not sure what the Sony uses?

[H₂O]

Where did you read the D50 won't do 88.2?  Not saying this is not true but it does contridict Sony's push for DSD which is based off increments of 44.1Khz (i.e. 88.2Khz) - I would find this ironic at least 

[twoheadedboy]

As far as I know it only does 44.1, 48, and 96. Correct me if I'm wrong!

[guysonic]

The R09HR using 2 AA cells is one of the few doing 88.2K, and Sony D50 using 4 AA cells is not one of them. 

Sony mic preamp is very quiet with no low or high frequency garbage, while the R09HR has low frequency mic power noise, and lots of very low level high frequency 1K Hz spread hash noise best avoided with use of external preamplifier if this really matters to you.   

Tech review of R09HR showing performance of inputs at: www.sonicstudios.com/r09hrrev.htm

Posted D50 tech information as threads on TS:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=6aafcfd78fb68e9cd23f6d44c4887913&topic=99649.0;all

http://taperssection.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=dc5cb19c3eae03a2a98a47d2a8b6b290&topic=106750.0.

Technical links and stuff also found at top of my tips page at: http://www.sonicstudios.com/tips.htm

[twoheadedboy]

Thanks Leonard. I'll admit I was looking for those reviews on your page and couldn't find them 

I should clarify, I will always be using line-in unless I'm using the built-ins, never mic-in, so mic-in noise issues do not affect me.

[guysonic]

Thanks Leonard. I'll admit I was looking for those reviews on your page and couldn't find them 

I should clarify, I will always be using line-in unless I'm using the built-ins, never mic-in, so mic-in noise issues do not affect me.

Tips page got updated with another TS D50 thread (now has the two shown below) earlier today.

R09HR line input seems very quiet driven with external preamp.  And sounds more accurate according to Part 3 of New Snake Oil thread at:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=0181d70481d3d3595fc10ab2ba8814d9&topic=109703.0;all

D50 is very good as-is mic/line regardless of driving source.

[twoheadedboy]

So line-in, there's no discernible difference between the two at equivalent sampling rates you'd say? Any thoughts on 44.1 vs. 88.2 issue?

If they're equal in sound quality, the R-09HR will definitely be my choice.

[flintstone]

This is a re-post of my observations about the Sony PCM-D50 vs R-09HR

These two are very good recorders, among the very best pocket-size models.
The PCM-D50 costs about $450, the R-09HR about $330 from authorized dealers.

D50 features not found in the R-09HR:
-- a preamp that doesn't need modifying to correct flaws
-- D50 preamp has lowest self-noise of pocket-size recorders
.....according to Guysonic's graphs and Raimund Specht's chart
-- low cut filter selectable for 75 or 150 hz
-- 5 second pre-roll buffer
-- optical digital input as well as mic and line in
-- a battery that's good for 10+ hours of recording
-- 4 GB of flash memory built in
-- a particularly effective, yet unobtrusive, limiter
-- an effective noise reduction circuit that improves 16 bit recordings
-- best build quality under $1000

Your cash, your choice.

Flintstone

[gmm6797]

Pros of the R09HR (IMHO)
* costs closer to $300
* no problems with the internal Preamp
* much smaller in size than the sony
* does not look like a pro deck, but records as a pro deck (read as stealthable)
* SD cards are way cheap, 16gb cards for less then $25

again, just my 2 cents

[carpa]

Guysonic wrote: "Sony mic preamp is very quiet with no low or high frequency garbage, while the R09HR has low frequency mic power noise, and lots of very low level high frequency 1K Hz spread hash noise best avoided with use of external preamplifier if this really matters to you."   
 
I've read the graphics (as I can understand) on sonicstudios.com and in the sony d-50 thread here: undoubtedly the difference in mic in performance of R09HR and D-50 in terms of noise is a matter of fact, while line in shows not a big difference to me.
The question is: using R09HR with an external self powered mic (AT8022, Rode nt4 or something externally phantom powered), so in PIP off mode,  is there still much audible noise in recording classical music concerts, with mic(s) placed between 50 cm and a couple of metres
in case of ensembles?
In another post ("recording choice") I posed some questions,and I don't want to hammer you all again, but one seems to be important to me to understand the balance-unbalance issue. In case of AT8022 or Rode Nt4 or my old broken Sony ECM 979 which all have balanced outputs somebody suggested me to use two Shure A95 Uf line matching transformers (femaleXLR to 1/4 jack) in order to  unbalance the mic and go into the deck. I was told that it is much better than simply using an adapter cable (5pin balances to minijack).
Is this true?
thank you again