Topic: tool red rocks - noob question

[thirdeye42012]

forgive the newbie question, this is my first time researching this topic really, after collecting TOOL recordings for a decade. ill be attending both red rocks shows next week, and i wanted to attempt my first taping at at least one show.

what do i need to have in order to record and save onto my iphone?? 

or else, is there some cheap and easy equipment that a newbie with limited time (3 days) can obtain from his local electronics store?

[manitouman]

Anything having to do with Maynard (Tool, A Perfect Circle) will be a thorough pat down. I was practically fingered for A Perfect Circle in 2004 @ City Auditorium and again for Tool in 2006(?) Temple Buell Theater show. Not that I didn't get them recorded anyways  You best have a plan on getting gear in if you are going to attempt a recording. 3 days is really not enough to purchase equipment, familiarize yourself with the equipment and then know what to do with it at the show. I'm not saying it can't be done, but more than likely, it won't happen.

I wouldn't worry about it, there should be several people covering it 

[rhinowing]

There are a few things to consider here:

1. It's not like Tool isn't going to get taped by someone else. is it worth risking getting thrown out when someone else will most likely be taping with a much better rig?
2. if you decide to tape, look up stuff from "iMic". I've seen their stuff used for ipod taping with decent results...you could run a quick mic picked up from radioshack through it

[acidjack]

Rhinowing may have more experience with the iMic than I do, so I would not discount his advice, but I would look at the bigger picture:

Even if this iMic thing is better than I think/suspect it is, to get even a vaguely tolerable recording, you need to:

- go through heavy pat down
- rather than enjoy the show with your friends, sit/stand stock still throughout the show, presumably holding or otherwise fixing the iphone and mic in position to pick up the sound properly.  This is a lot easier said than done.  And I promise you, the show will be a LOT more stressful and a lot less enjoyable while doing it.
- not get thrown out/caught once inside

The iPhone is not a recording device.  It is not designed to record music.  The decent portable recorders with built-in mics like the Tascam DR-07/08 and Zoom H2 are light years better (they start at around $100-150) than an iPhone will ever be, and IMHO the recordings made with the internals on those decks still sound like garbage. Not to mention that using those internals, again, requires holding the recorder physically, making you kind of obvious.  You can put the deck in a shirt pocket, but then, if it uses cardiod mics, you are aiming the mics at the ceiling, and you have it at a well below optimum height. 

I don't want to discourage you from taping at all - it's a great hobby (though see item #2 up there about standing still/enjoying the show... it is a tradeoff).  But if you want to get into, don't try something like recording a well-known and anti-taping band with equipment that even in skilled hands will sound poor.  Just go and have fun. 

If you still want to get into taping, start reading this board.  For ~200 you can get some gear that is stealthy, portable and will get you recordings you actually want to listen to.

[junkyardt]

I wouldn't worry about it, there should be several people covering it 

1. It's not like Tool isn't going to get taped by someone else. is it worth risking getting thrown out when someone else will most likely be taping with a much better rig?

where does this notion come from? for last year's Tool show in Denver (1st show of the 2009 tour), only one source has surfaced thus far I believe, a Zoom H2 internals recording. sure, there may be 4 other tapers there with great rigs pulling sick recordings, but if they never release their stuff, then what purpose do those recordings serve this guy? the surest way for this guy to get a recording of the show (whatever the quality) is to do it himself. telling him to just trust that other tapers who may be completely underground and/or unknown will release their stuff to the masses is not sound advice, imo, especially for a band whose taper/collector community is notorious for sitting on stuff to the point of taking it with them to the grave. for a band like Phish or WSP, sure, that may be reasonable advice, but not for Tool.

[nameloc01]

Well, I would be prepared for 2 "pat-downs" and possibly wands at the gates...then once you've penetrated their outer defenses, you get to contend with the venue security, which I'm sure there will be a ton of (who will get briefed from TOOLs personal head of security before the show about shutting down tapers) and the bands (personal) small army of anti-taper personel...and if youre really lucky,..The Fox himself..

Tool, is probably the most *militant* anti-taping band there ever was....

good luck.
tape it yourself.

[junkyardt]

Tool, is probably the most *militant* anti-taping band there ever was....

yet, oddly enough, as hard as they try to stop tapes from coming into existence...once they exist, they don't seem to give a shit about it from that point. a band like Porcupine Tree is just as hardcore anti-taping as Tool but approaches it in the complete opposite way -- they don't seem to put any effort at all into stopping taping from happening, but they crack down hard on the recordings that already exist.

[gewwang]

In my experiences, the security at a Tool show is venue-dependent. The times I saw them at venues that don't patdown or wand, still didn't administer patdowns or wands just because Tool was in town.

[rhinowing]

I wouldn't worry about it, there should be several people covering it 

1. It's not like Tool isn't going to get taped by someone else. is it worth risking getting thrown out when someone else will most likely be taping with a much better rig?

where does this notion come from? for last year's Tool show in Denver (1st show of the 2009 tour), only one source has surfaced thus far I believe, a Zoom H2 internals recording. sure, there may be 4 other tapers there with great rigs pulling sick recordings, but if they never release their stuff, then what purpose do those recordings serve this guy? the surest way for this guy to get a recording of the show (whatever the quality) is to do it himself. telling him to just trust that other tapers who may be completely underground and/or unknown will release their stuff to the masses is not sound advice, imo, especially for a band whose taper/collector community is notorious for sitting on stuff to the point of taking it with them to the grave. for a band like Phish or WSP, sure, that may be reasonable advice, but not for Tool.

ehhh, i thought something like 90% of the 06-07 tour has surfaced

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Tool, is probably the most *militant* anti-taping band there ever was....

Which is why they get taped by tapers who otherwise wouldn't care..

[nameloc01]

I wouldn't worry about it, there should be several people covering it 

1. It's not like Tool isn't going to get taped by someone else. is it worth risking getting thrown out when someone else will most likely be taping with a much better rig?

where does this notion come from? for last year's Tool show in Denver (1st show of the 2009 tour), only one source has surfaced thus far I believe, a Zoom H2 internals recording. sure, there may be 4 other tapers there with great rigs pulling sick recordings, but if they never release their stuff, then what purpose do those recordings serve this guy? the surest way for this guy to get a recording of the show (whatever the quality) is to do it himself. telling him to just trust that other tapers who may be completely underground and/or unknown will release their stuff to the masses is not sound advice, imo, especially for a band whose taper/collector community is notorious for sitting on stuff to the point of taking it with them to the grave. for a band like Phish or WSP, sure, that may be reasonable advice, but not for Tool.

ehhh, i thought something like 90% of the 06-07 tour has surfaced

I think his point was that one show in particular very well may be in the 10% of recordings that doesnt turn up..especially if they do something different ( lol) or the recording is above par..it may be kept close.
expect very heavy searches and security all over the place. trust me, its no joke.

[rastasean]

Tool, is probably the most *militant* anti-taping band there ever was....

Which is why they get taped by tapers who otherwise wouldn't care..

I would have to agree with this statement.

I don't know anything about the Porcupine Tree band except they are in this months sound on sound magazine. Young guys who have come so far. I know its every band and musicians decision to make but from people who are so young and who haven't been too influenced by the record labels, this is not pleasing.

[junkyardt]

I don't know anything about the Porcupine Tree band except they are in this months sound on sound magazine. Young guys who have come so far. I know its every band and musicians decision to make but from people who are so young and who haven't been too influenced by the record labels, this is not pleasing.

PT aren't young guys. the ages of the 4 band members are 39, 42, 47 and 52.

[Sunday Driver]

I've seen/taped Tool twice and the pat-downs were fairly intrusive. However, I've been through pat-downs that I thought were of the same caliber for other shows, so perhaps they weren't the "worst". Also of interest...the second time I saw/taped Porcupine Tree, there weren't any security checks. Someone scanned your ticket and you walked right in. Amusingly, most of the "security" team had their eyes glued to the stage, and payed no attention to the crowd.

As for the topic starter, perhaps it would be best to start off with just a recorder using the internal mics? A Zoom H2 may give adequate results if on a tight budget. Don't get the Edirol R-09HR if you want to go this route though. No idea on the iphone...

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

Tool, is probably the most *militant* anti-taping band there ever was....

yet, oddly enough, as hard as they try to stop tapes from coming into existence...

I don't get it...  If 90% of your show get taped and you don't care, why not just allow it???  Set up a Section like at PH shows...

Whatever...  I love Tool...  I guess Maynard et al. can do what they want...

Terry

[jagraham]

i dont have much to add here.  i do feel like a dumbass because i thought tool was pro taping for years due to all that is in circulation.  were they never pro taping?  as far as the recording topic goes, i agree with several that you really dont have time for this in 3 days.  someone will probably tape it, of course you never know for sure and even if that, they could get busted, come out with a crappy tape, etc.  if you plan on taping shows after this, i would go ahead and get a dr-07(probably runs you 120-180).  it a nice piece of equipment for the price.  never used the internals, and never would if I could avoid it.  the DR-07 does give some phantom power if you needed to power mics but for a loud show like tool you would probably need a preamp to get decent recordings.  the h2 is a similar product to the dr07 but ive never used it and cant imagine it would be more satisfying than the dr07 but to each his own.  hope this helps some.

[acidjack]

I don't get it...  If 90% of your show get taped and you don't care, why not just allow it???  Set up a Section like at PH shows...

Whatever...  I love Tool...  I guess Maynard et al. can do what they want...

Terry

I can personally see lots of reasons aesthetically to not do a Phish-style section - b/c not every band wants to have to deal with the headaches, and further, to have sight-obstructing stands in a prime venue position.  I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but there are arguments against it.

Another band that is at least vaguely in the same realm musically (sound nothing alike, but likely a similar fan base) as Tool is NIN, and I thought their policy made a hell of a lot of sense, which was essentially stealth tape with permission.  Bring your gear, venues are informed, do what you want, but no stands, no clamps/mounts.  Audience doesn't even know you're there.  Obviously I prefer for a band to allow stands and full open taping, but I think NIN's policy is a nice compromise, and that entire final tour got covered with many very high quality recordings (including one of mine  )

[nameloc01]

"We're control freaks" -Adam Jones.
"Our music isn't yours to give.." -Maynard

Tool has gotten burned by bootlegs over the years (not that its a real concern nowadays) but they also like to maintain complete control of their material and how it is presented...they have said this many,many,many times.  Besides, whatever policies and methods to their career they employ, they are obviously working, as as far as they are concerned why would they need to change them..?

The shows get taped regardless..and while I suppose it would be nice to just stroll in with a stand and gear bag, the hassles of  securing "tapers tickets" and "tapers section drama" and all the crap that comes along with that doesnt seem too appealing to me.

[junkyardt]

and while I suppose it would be nice to just stroll in with a stand and gear bag, the hassles of  securing "tapers tickets" and "tapers section drama" and all the crap that comes along with that doesnt seem too appealing to me.

plus if there were 7 open rigs on stands at every tool show, high quality recordings would no longer be rare and there would be nothing left to be paranoid about. and the gratification comes from the rarity and the paranoia.

[nameloc01]

and while I suppose it would be nice to just stroll in with a stand and gear bag, the hassles of  securing "tapers tickets" and "tapers section drama" and all the crap that comes along with that doesnt seem too appealing to me.

plus if there were 7 open rigs on stands at every tool show, high quality recordings would no longer be rare and there would be nothing left to be paranoid about. and the gratification comes from the rarity and the paranoia.

funny you mention that.I just got done doing my weekly naked romp on the floor with all of my recordings..

[junkyardt]

funny you mention that.I just got done doing my weekly naked romp on the floor with all of my recordings..

 

[gewwang]

In my experiences, the security at a Tool show is venue-dependent. The times I saw them at venues that don't patdown or wand, still didn't administer patdowns or wands just because Tool was in town.

I stand corrected. My first patdown at red rocks was tonight. Wasn't too hard though.

[nameloc01]

I got the wand and a pat-down on Saturday...wasnt too effective though. 

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

In my experiences, the security at a Tool show is venue-dependent. The times I saw them at venues that don't patdown or wand, still didn't administer patdowns or wands just because Tool was in town.

I stand corrected. My first patdown at red rocks was tonight. Wasn't too hard though.

I actually got the patdown at Panic. Never had that before, although it was my first time not getting there hours before doors (I got there 1.5 hours AFTER). I think maybe when they first let people in for Panic they might be more interested in getting that crowd in quickly and safely.

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

Tool - Red Rocks - DL:
http://zombtracker.the-zomb.com/details.php?id=35454

Terry

[manitouman]

Working on my night 1. Decided not to record night 2. Is it out there?