Topic: Figure 8 techniques?

[ArchivalAudio]

I am wondering about Figure 8 techniques for stereo arrays.
I just got a matched pair of MILAB DC-196's  and really want to use the Figure 8's to their fullest - when I can.
I really like blumlein especially way FOB


Once I ran a LSD-2 in a wide Blumlein at about 110° angle and really like that sound.

Has anyone tried spaced figure 8's?
I'm kind of thinking about something  similar to DIN or NOS but tieh the 8's 20 or 30 cm spacing at 90°

I saw somewhere that someone ran the DC-196's horizontally in Blumlein instead of the standard verticle set up  - that's what I am thinking of.

I have heard a handful of recordings from the early mid 1980's of the Grateful Dead using Beyer m-88's but no one seems to notate placement or spacing of the mics.

one example is
https://archive.org/details/gd1985-04-01.beyerm88.suraci.78512.sbeok.flac16  While not necessarily the best recording It has a unique sound.

I've sort of thought about "considering" the figure 8's similar to space omnis and trying some close spacing with different aggles, but perhaps it would end up horrible.

anyway looking for thoughts from others that may have played around with 8's

thanks --Ian

[John Willett]

I like fig-8s, but I prefer MS to Blumlein (actually Blumlein used MS himself).

Though I prefer single-diaphragm fig-8s over the pattern made by back-to-back cardioids in a switchable-pattern mic.

[aaronji]

You can use this tool to visualize how the figure eights will do at a given spacing and angle: http://www.sengpielaudio.com/HejiaE.htm.

[goodcooker]

 I tried my ADK TLs in fig8 a few ways.

The only things that worked for me were MidSide and Blumlein.

Blumlein only worked in a half circle of unamplified acoustic pickers and it worked VERY well with an eerie "being there" feeling but still very spacious.

I tried to run them once in a DINish pattern split 25 cm or so and angled 90 degrees. It sounded terrible, very thin and anemic with no low end.

[DSatz]

I've recorded with spaced figure-8s but I don't recommend that approach in general. I only used it because I was recording in a reverberant room with a very low ceiling. By aiming the microphones horizontally (i.e. not tilted up or down at all), the strongest reflections from the floor and ceiling were nulled out. However, the stereo image was very poor--it was effectively two spot microphones.

If you use coincident figure-8s at any angle wider than 90 degrees, the rear lobe of each microphone will pick up some of the same direct sound as the front lobe of the other microphone, but in opposite polarity (because the front and back lobes of any figure-8 microphone are in opposite polarity from each other). That definitely does something odd to stereo playback over speakers, though I agree it can be fun--when you're listening from close to the center, and especially if you hold your head very still, some sound sources can seem as if they originate from beyond the physical speaker locations. But if you ever have to sum the two channels into mono, the musical balance will suffer because of the cancellation that will occur. So be careful with that approach.

--best regards

[Gutbucket]

Blumlein coincident crossed 8's (done either way: X/Y or M/S) are really great when the setup fits the situation.  I found that often a bit less than 90 degrees worked best for me in a lot of cases, it solidifies the center and widens up the recording angle.  M/S techniques can adjust the angle a bit afterwards regardless of which way it was setup, and unlike using any other Mid microphone pattern with M/S the pickup pattern shape of each microphone won't change as you vary the M/S ratio, they always remain 8's and only the angle changes. Bonus!

I've never done it, but when I was using Blumlein more often a few years ago I often thought about experimenting with minimal spacings- less than is used for typical near-spaced configs, basically the mics immediately next to each other with a somewhat smaller than 90 degree angle between microphones.  I think that has a better chance of working than wider spacings, and would be easy to setup for tapers using vertically arranged side-address 8's on typical mic-bars.  It also seems interesting on the Sengpiel visualizer when I've toyed around with 8's on that.

I can also can think of good reasons a single forward facing 8 could work well as a center microphone between wide-spaced omnis in a 3-microphone setup where the narrow front/back pickup angle of the 8 and its 180 degree opposed sideways-facing nulls could be advantageous.  Haven't tried that yet either.