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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: tgakidis on October 03, 2017, 01:26:04 PM

Title: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: tgakidis on October 03, 2017, 01:26:04 PM
https://www.sounddevices.com/products/recorders/mixpre-10t

The Sound Devices MixPre-10T is a 10-input recorder with a built-in time code generator and reader, offering up to 12 tracks of polyphonic WAV file recording. It includes balanced outputs, locking 4-pin Hirose power connector and the ability to copy recorded files to a removable thumbdrive.

 The MixPre-10T will retail for $1799. Pre-orders are open now and it's expected to start shipping at the end of October. Get your order in now - initial supply may be limited and we'll be fulfilling orders first come, first served!

Some of the major features of the MixPre-10T include: •Exceptional audio quality – featuring eight ultra-low-noise, discrete, Class-A, Kashmir mic preamps handcrafted by Sound Devices. The MixPre-10T offers signature analog limiters and new 32-bit A-to-D converters to ensure high quality, professional-grade audio recordings.
 
•Accurate Time Code – with built-in, ultra-high accuracy time code generator and reader. Even when turned off or if all power is removed, the MixPre-10T continues to hold accurate timecode for hours. With its BNC, Aux, and HDMI timecode connections, all common frame rates and timecode modes are supported as well as the ability to lock to or output wordclock.
 
•Versatile I/O routing – flexibility with its two TA3 balanced outputs and a 3.5mm Stereo output, each with routing matrix. The MixPre-10T comes equipped with eight XLR/TRS combo Mic/Line level inputs, and a 3.5mm Aux/Mic input, which may be used for 2-channel line input, camera return, or time code.
 
•Flexible powering options – including a locking 4-pin Hirose connector for either external battery powering or AC-powering, as well as AA or Li-Ion battery sleds.
 
•Unintimidating design – featuring a sunlight-readable, IPS touch screen LCD, and transport control joystick.
 
•Mixing and metering – with gain control knobs, and access to panning and soloing via a simple press of the knob. Easy-to-read ring LEDs display limiter activity, and three LCD views provide easy monitoring of multitrack, mix, and USB return meters.
 
•Built-in Bluetooth Smart® – enables control of the device from the free Sound Devices Wingman app. Users can start/stop recording, enter/edit metadata, and arm, disarm and rename tracks. MixPre-10T users also manage and create sound reports, plus email those reports directly from an iOS or Android device via Wingman.
 
•Superior headphone monitoring – through the MixPre-10T’s custom-designed, wide-bandwidth headphone amp, and user programmable routing presets.
 
•Compact and durable – the chassis is constructed from die-cast aluminum, class leading compact size and lightweight.
Like the MixPre-3 and MixPre-6, the MixPre-10T also makes an excellent USB audio interface featuring 12 channels in and 4 channels out from a Mac or Windows computer at up to 96k sample rate. The Mixpre-10T features the unique ability to record to an SD, SDHC or SDXC media card while simultaneously audio streaming via USB. The MixPre-10T can automatically copy recordings to a USB thumbdrive for creating a backup or deliver to clients.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: sos on October 03, 2017, 01:28:53 PM
The elves have been hard at work...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY5Cm0se-pw
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: waltmon on October 03, 2017, 01:42:06 PM
I'm in - have sent an email in regards to availability.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: obaaron on October 03, 2017, 01:58:54 PM
have a feeling I may be purchasing an mp6 with the forthcoming fire sale from people upgrading  :cheers: :guitarist: ;D
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: rigpimp on October 03, 2017, 01:59:54 PM
Checking in.  Is this the Mixpre-6 early adopter's remorse thread?   :-*

2 new features:

1) Hirose power in!
2) Backup recording to a USB drive!  Can this be added via firmware updates to the 3/6?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: justink on October 03, 2017, 02:04:10 PM
I'm in - have sent an email in regards to availability.

I was the first to pre-order through Trew Nashville.  They said they should be delivered before or on Halloween. 

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: Paul Isaacs on October 03, 2017, 02:27:30 PM
Checking in.  Is this the Mixpre-6 early adopter's remorse thread?   :-*

2 new features:

1) Hirose power in!
2) Backup recording to a USB drive!  Can this be added via firmware updates to the 3/6?

Background copy to USB thumbdrive only on the MixPre-10T, not the -3 or -6.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: tom the taper on October 03, 2017, 02:31:18 PM
 :hmmm:
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: lsd2525 on October 03, 2017, 02:41:35 PM
have a feeling I may be purchasing an mp6 with the forthcoming fire sale from people upgrading  :cheers: :guitarist: ;D

^^^^^^^ This.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: dogmusic on October 03, 2017, 02:44:20 PM
Checking in.  Is this the Mixpre-6 early adopter's remorse thread?   :-*

2 new features:

1) Hirose power in!
2) Backup recording to a USB drive!  Can this be added via firmware updates to the 3/6?

Background copy to USB thumbdrive only on the MixPre-10T, not the -3 or -6.

How many tracks can you record at 192 kHz | 24 bit?

Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: noahbickart on October 03, 2017, 02:58:02 PM
very interesting that this can't be powered from the usb-c.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: gewwang on October 03, 2017, 03:02:14 PM
I have a mixpre-3 and a mixpre-6 and I don't have any buyer's remorse on either unit.

The 10t would be on my wishlist if I ever had a need to setup more than 4 mics at a show. Currently, I don't plan on setting up more than 4 mics for any of the shows I tape.

Bottom line, thank you Sound Devices for covering the needs for just about all of us here with these kickass boxes.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: tgakidis on October 03, 2017, 03:04:05 PM
Pre-Ordered mine from Gotham
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: Duncan on October 03, 2017, 03:52:10 PM
I'm holding out for the MixPre 20 because if I plug in all the mics I own I'll only have 6 spare channels with the 10T and I'm not sure I can take the stress of that little redundancy.
I pity those poor souls with a MixPre 6

Duncan
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B) on October 03, 2017, 04:01:17 PM
I'm holding out for the MixPre 20 because if I plug in all the mics I own I'll only have 6 spare channels with the 10T and I'm not sure I can take the stress of that little redundancy.
I pity those poor souls with a MixPre 6

Duncan

10 is a little overkill. I did use all 8 channels on my DR-680 once, but 6 of those were from the board (stereo board mix + 4 vocal mic outputs from the board) and really didn't add much over just taking the board feed.

I can see a lot of people I know using 3 pairs of mics directly into this thing.

I know Bennett was salivating over the new recorders but I think he was concerned with not being able to run 3 pairs without another box. I can't see him not picking one of these up.

Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: rigpimp on October 03, 2017, 04:13:19 PM
I have a mixpre-3 and a mixpre-6 and I don't have any buyer's remorse on either unit.

The 10t would be on my wishlist if I ever had a need to setup more than 4 mics at a show. Currently, I don't plan on setting up more than 4 mics for any of the shows I tape.

Bottom line, thank you Sound Devices for covering the needs for just about all of us here with these kickass boxes.

Oh goodness I was only joking.   :coolguy:  Hell, I am still working on getting down a solid workflow with the Mixpre-6!

Also I only have 6 mics but I could see this being a super useful recorder for small ensembles that use less than 10 tracks allowing me to leave mics in the bag and multi-track a gig instead of recording ambient.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: justink on October 03, 2017, 08:45:13 PM
I’m interested in this for multiple mic + sbd main mix OR 8 direct outs from the board for a small band/solo/duo show and mix at home.

More options is always a good thing.

Looks like this will be about the same size or smaller than a V3.  That’s amazing.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: Paul Isaacs on October 03, 2017, 09:45:09 PM
Checking in.  Is this the Mixpre-6 early adopter's remorse thread?   :-*

2 new features:

1) Hirose power in!
2) Backup recording to a USB drive!  Can this be added via firmware updates to the 3/6?

Background copy to USB thumbdrive only on the MixPre-10T, not the -3 or -6.

How many tracks can you record at 192 kHz | 24 bit?

All of them!
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: rigpimp on October 03, 2017, 09:54:33 PM
I’m interested in this for multiple mic + sbd main mix OR 8 direct outs from the board for a small band/solo/duo show and mix at home.

More options is always a good thing.

Looks like this will be about the same size or smaller than a V3.  That’s amazing.

Actually the Mixpre-6 is V3 size.  Watch the video and youll see how big this is in relation to the V3 / 6.  Still, its small for 10+ channels.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: dogmusic on October 03, 2017, 10:32:51 PM
Checking in.  Is this the Mixpre-6 early adopter's remorse thread?   :-*

2 new features:

1) Hirose power in!
2) Backup recording to a USB drive!  Can this be added via firmware updates to the 3/6?

Background copy to USB thumbdrive only on the MixPre-10T, not the -3 or -6.

How many tracks can you record at 192 kHz | 24 bit?

All of them!

Excellent!
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: jb63 on October 03, 2017, 11:40:22 PM
Still no digital input! Ugh!
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: justink on October 04, 2017, 01:12:10 AM
I’m interested in this for multiple mic + sbd main mix OR 8 direct outs from the board for a small band/solo/duo show and mix at home.

More options is always a good thing.

Looks like this will be about the same size or smaller than a V3.  That’s amazing.

Actually the Mixpre-6 is V3 size.  Watch the video and youll see how big this is in relation to the V3 / 6.  Still, its small for 10+ channels.

From everything that I’ve seen, the mixpre6 is about the same size as the R-44, which is significantly smaller than my V3.

Here’s the posted dimensions:

Mixpre-6:  6.53 in x 4.65 in x 1.40 in

Mixpre-10T:  8.15 in x 6.88 in x 1.40 in

V3:  8.25 in x 5.5 in x 1.7 in

So that puts the Mixpre-10 about an inch and half deeper than the V3 (probably for the battery sled?) but smaller (basically same size) length and height wise.  And if you’re like me and have V3 stilts, it’s MUCH smaller than that package.

Truly a marvel of engineering. My bag and back is already happy with this purchase.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: justink on October 04, 2017, 01:14:03 AM
What’s everyone’s ideas on powering this via the Hirose?  Need new battery options, as I don’t think the old dvd 9v batteries will run this thing.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: stuartprovine on October 04, 2017, 01:55:28 AM
What’s everyone’s ideas on powering this via the Hirose?  Need new battery options, as I don’t think the old dvd 9v batteries will run this thing.

Depends on what batteries you want to go with.  NP1's can be had relatively cheaply used, and are considered professional level.  Some NP1's coupled with a remote audio adapter would work great.  https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/287295-REG/Remote_Audio_NPADCSQN_NP_1_Cup_Adapter_with.html (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/287295-REG/Remote_Audio_NPADCSQN_NP_1_Cup_Adapter_with.html)

A more modern battery would be the Remote Audio Hi-Q models, which come in a couple of sizes I believe.
http://remoteaudio.com/products/power/hi-q-batteries/ (http://remoteaudio.com/products/power/hi-q-batteries/)

and then you'd need the specific adapter
http://remoteaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/HIQHIR.jpg (http://remoteaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/HIQHIR.jpg)

Since the place where I work has a ton of NP1's I went with those adapters.  But if I was buying all my own batteries I'd go with the Hi-Q version.

There may be many more affordable options, but the Remote Audio stuff I've been using and it works great.

Hope that helps,
Stuart
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: jbell on October 04, 2017, 05:37:59 AM
The Mixpre-6 is way smaller than a R44.   It is also smaller than a v3

I’m interested in this for multiple mic + sbd main mix OR 8 direct outs from the board for a small band/solo/duo show and mix at home.

More options is always a good thing.

Looks like this will be about the same size or smaller than a V3.  That’s amazing.

Actually the Mixpre-6 is V3 size.  Watch the video and youll see how big this is in relation to the V3 / 6.  Still, its small for 10+ channels.

From everything that I’ve seen, the mixpre6 is about the same size as the R-44, which is significantly smaller than my V3.

Here’s the posted dimensions:

Mixpre-6:  6.53 in x 4.65 in x 1.40 in

Mixpre-10T:  8.15 in x 6.88 in x 1.40 in

V3:  8.25 in x 5.5 in x 1.7 in

So that puts the Mixpre-10 about an inch and half deeper than the V3 (probably for the battery sled?) but smaller (basically same size) length and height wise.  And if you’re like me and have V3 stilts, it’s MUCH smaller than that package.

Truly a marvel of engineering. My bag and back is already happy with this purchase.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: IronFilm on October 04, 2017, 06:24:39 AM
Good move by SD, fixes some of the main common flaws of the last couple of MixPre recorders.


Double the price of the MixPre-6 however! :-o
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: tgakidis on October 04, 2017, 06:35:09 AM
The "joy stick" for start and stop is a bit sketchy, unless there is a hold/lock feature.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: celticrogues on October 04, 2017, 09:21:05 AM
The "joy stick" for start and stop is a bit sketchy, unless there is a hold/lock feature.

SD's 6-series recorders use the joystick too. I own and use a 633 all the time and have never had an issue with it.

-Mike
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: H₂O on October 04, 2017, 09:41:44 AM
I wonder what the power requirements will be?

The included AC adapter is rated at 45w which is pretty high.  I doubt it comes close to using 45w though, but to put in perspective my hs-p82 pulls about 25w so I run a 16.8v 150wh battery to get about 6 hours of record time

These class of batteries aren’t cheap and start around the $125 range

Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: gewwang on October 04, 2017, 10:00:04 AM
The "joy stick" for start and stop is a bit sketchy, unless there is a hold/lock feature.

SD's 6-series recorders use the joystick too. I own and use a 633 all the time and have never had an issue with it.

-Mike

what's the "joy stick"?

it this a change in the 10t from the 3 and the 6?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: justink on October 04, 2017, 10:28:06 AM
The "joy stick" for start and stop is a bit sketchy, unless there is a hold/lock feature.

SD's 6-series recorders use the joystick too. I own and use a 633 all the time and have never had an issue with it.

-Mike

what's the "joy stick"?

it this a change in the 10t from the 3 and the 6?

yeah.  it's the "record" "ffwd" "rwd" "stop" button.  north, south, east, west. 

that's what it looks like anyway.  might be functional in the menu as well.  idk.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: justink on October 04, 2017, 10:30:44 AM
The "joy stick" for start and stop is a bit sketchy, unless there is a hold/lock feature.

really hope there's a hold feature.  just makes me feel better.

also, did they ever add pre-record?  that's less of an issue though.  you can always just hit record and cut out the extra later. 
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: sos on October 04, 2017, 10:33:11 AM
I wonder what the power requirements will be?

The included AC adapter is rated at 45w...

The AC adapter is NOT included (just an 8AA sled). An "Alvin's Cables" knockoff that should work, is available on eBay for under $40:

https://www.ebay.com/i/331989735158?chn=ps&dispItem=1 (https://www.ebay.com/i/331989735158?chn=ps&dispItem=1)

The OEM device is $102, at various locations:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&O=&Q=&ap=y&c3api=1876%2C%7Bcreative%7D%2C%7Bkeyword%7D&gclid=Cj0KCQjwjdLOBRCkARIsAFj5-GCcBFZD4ZFAEtv0YkO9cFva47ulmc8ao-gTdUG5SPoI_bz4gYKV1hkaAgrQEALw_wcB&is=REG&m=Y&sku=598009 (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&O=&Q=&ap=y&c3api=1876%2C%7Bcreative%7D%2C%7Bkeyword%7D&gclid=Cj0KCQjwjdLOBRCkARIsAFj5-GCcBFZD4ZFAEtv0YkO9cFva47ulmc8ao-gTdUG5SPoI_bz4gYKV1hkaAgrQEALw_wcB&is=REG&m=Y&sku=598009)
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: celticrogues on October 04, 2017, 10:57:58 AM
The "joy stick" for start and stop is a bit sketchy, unless there is a hold/lock feature.

SD's 6-series recorders use the joystick too. I own and use a 633 all the time and have never had an issue with it.

-Mike

what's the "joy stick"?

it this a change in the 10t from the 3 and the 6?

Yes it is. It's the way the -10T (and the 6-series line) triggers record, play, stop, etc.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: acidjack on October 04, 2017, 11:50:15 AM
One rule of recorders--whatever you buy will be obsolete in a month. I'd bet for most of us the MixPre6 does enough for us channel-wise; for now I personally feel like the Zoom F8 is fine for me if I need more (have really only used all 8 once or twice).... But the 10T is a nice upgrade, especially having a professional-quality powering option. Looks like the body is almost the same size but with the "wings" for the additional XLRs.  $1800 is still a reasonable price, too.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: rigpimp on October 04, 2017, 12:02:37 PM
I ran a R44 and a V3 combo for a long time and can say that the Mixpre-6 appears much closer in size to the V3 than it is to the R44.  The R44 is noticeably thicker than either of the two aforementioned pieces.  Looking forwaed to seeing these in the wild!
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: MBHOTAPER on October 04, 2017, 03:03:10 PM
have a feeling I may be purchasing an mp6 with the forthcoming fire sale from people upgrading  :cheers: :guitarist: ;D
Sd 722 & 744 prices should be dropping also.
How does the mixpre pres compare to the old 702, 744 and 788s?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: H₂O on October 04, 2017, 04:45:41 PM
There is 744t at Trew for $1300 right now

I’d expect the bottom to fallout on the 7xx series pretty soon

~600-700 for a 702
~800-900 for a 702T/722
~1000-1200 for a 744t

Possibly lower

I have seen 702s for around $750 and 702Ts for around 900 within the last year or so - but some people will still overpay for these units in the ~1200 and ~1400 ranges respectively - 744 prices are all over the place but better deals I have seen before theses new mix pres came out was $1500-1600
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: dallman on October 04, 2017, 05:59:20 PM
Size comparison MixPre 3, 6, 10T
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: Gordon on October 04, 2017, 08:47:19 PM
have a feeling I may be purchasing an mp6 with the forthcoming fire sale from people upgrading  :cheers: :guitarist: ;D
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: adrianb on October 05, 2017, 03:20:56 AM
Looking at those units stacked up, I now want a MixPre-2 that can fit in your pocket. Perhaps I'm just being greedy. :)
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: aaronji on October 05, 2017, 06:29:00 AM
One rule of recorders--whatever you buy will be obsolete in a month. I'd bet for most of us the MixPre6 does enough for us channel-wise; for now I personally feel like the Zoom F8 is fine for me if I need more (have really only used all 8 once or twice).... But the 10T is a nice upgrade, especially having a professional-quality powering option. Looks like the body is almost the same size but with the "wings" for the additional XLRs.  $1800 is still a reasonable price, too.

I don't think the MixPre-10T makes the 6 or 3 obsolete in any way.  Different models for different uses.  Personally, I will never need ten channels or timecode.  Six (four, really) is more than sufficient and I much prefer the smaller size and lighter weight...
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: Paul Isaacs on October 05, 2017, 10:26:04 AM
I wonder what the power requirements will be?

The included AC adapter is rated at 45w which is pretty high.  I doubt it comes close to using 45w though, but to put in perspective my hs-p82 pulls about 25w so I run a 16.8v 150wh battery to get about 6 hours of record time

These class of batteries aren’t cheap and start around the $125 range

We don't have official figures quite yet, but on average you're probably looking at around 6-8W, depends on many things like how many phantom mics etc.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: waltmon on October 05, 2017, 10:51:53 AM
I’m interested in this for multiple mic + sbd main mix OR 8 direct outs from the board for a small band/solo/duo show and mix at home.

More options is always a good thing.

Looks like this will be about the same size or smaller than a V3.  That’s amazing.

Actually the Mixpre-6 is V3 size.  Watch the video and youll see how big this is in relation to the V3 / 6.  Still, its small for 10+ channels.



Mix-pre 6 is not even close to the size of a V-3
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: gewwang on October 05, 2017, 01:17:55 PM
mp3, mp6, v3
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: acidjack on October 05, 2017, 02:15:36 PM
One rule of recorders--whatever you buy will be obsolete in a month. I'd bet for most of us the MixPre6 does enough for us channel-wise; for now I personally feel like the Zoom F8 is fine for me if I need more (have really only used all 8 once or twice).... But the 10T is a nice upgrade, especially having a professional-quality powering option. Looks like the body is almost the same size but with the "wings" for the additional XLRs.  $1800 is still a reasonable price, too.

I don't think the MixPre-10T makes the 6 or 3 obsolete in any way.  Different models for different uses.  Personally, I will never need ten channels or timecode.  Six (four, really) is more than sufficient and I much prefer the smaller size and lighter weight...

Exactly.... I really feel like the 6 is an optimal size. It's enough smaller/lighter than a Zoom F8 that it makes a difference. The -10 actually looks bigger than the Zoom, plus given how the -6 does with powering, I'm guessing the 10 will need loads of power.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: MBHOTAPER on October 07, 2017, 11:49:45 PM
have a feeling I may be purchasing an mp6 with the forthcoming fire sale from people upgrading  :cheers: :guitarist: ;D
Sd 702 & 744 prices should be dropping also.
How does the mixpre pres compare to the old 702, 744 and 788s?
Paul or anyone who has had experience(s) with the 702, 744 and 788. How do these pres compare to the new mixpres? Seen others ask about this also but one has commented yet.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: voltronic on October 08, 2017, 09:03:26 AM
have a feeling I may be purchasing an mp6 with the forthcoming fire sale from people upgrading  :cheers: :guitarist: ;D
Sd 702 & 744 prices should be dropping also.
How does the mixpre pres compare to the old 702, 744 and 788s?
Paul or anyone who has had experience(s) with the 702, 744 and 788. How do these pres compare to the new mixpres? Seen others ask about this also but one has commented yet.

I think the 788 is the comparison most of us would be interested in, as those are SD's best preamps to this point.  From the horse's mouth:
http://www.sounddevices.com/tech-notes/788t-microphone-preamplifiers (http://www.sounddevices.com/tech-notes/788t-microphone-preamplifiers)
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: justink on October 08, 2017, 09:13:20 AM
have a feeling I may be purchasing an mp6 with the forthcoming fire sale from people upgrading  :cheers: :guitarist: ;D
Sd 702 & 744 prices should be dropping also.
How does the mixpre pres compare to the old 702, 744 and 788s?
Paul or anyone who has had experience(s) with the 702, 744 and 788. How do these pres compare to the new mixpres? Seen others ask about this also but one has commented yet.

I think the 788 is the comparison most of us would be interested in, as those are SD's best preamps to this point.  From the horse's mouth:
http://www.sounddevices.com/tech-notes/788t-microphone-preamplifiers (http://www.sounddevices.com/tech-notes/788t-microphone-preamplifiers)

they've had NINE YEARS of R&D and tech advances.  I doubt they would release an inferior product.

Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: waltmon on October 08, 2017, 10:55:06 AM
They have said all along that the Kashmir pre-amps are a significant upgrade to the 7XX series pre-amps. I love my 744, but I hear a definite positive difference. My only beef to date with these decks to date is the lack of a digital input - now especially with the 10T...they could have used one pair of the XLR inputs as a combo XLR/AES like the 744T has...
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: justink on October 08, 2017, 11:17:49 AM
They have said all along that the Kashmir pre-amps are a significant upgrade to the 7XX series pre-amps. I love my 744, but I hear a definite positive difference. My only beef to date with these decks to date is the lack of a digital input - now especially with the 10T...they could have used one pair of the XLR inputs as a combo XLR/AES like the 744T has...

they could.  but i just don't see the need in it.  i prefer them to have 8 full pre's instead of 2 and 2 like the 744.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: voltronic on October 08, 2017, 11:31:27 AM
have a feeling I may be purchasing an mp6 with the forthcoming fire sale from people upgrading  :cheers: :guitarist: ;D
Sd 702 & 744 prices should be dropping also.
How does the mixpre pres compare to the old 702, 744 and 788s?
Paul or anyone who has had experience(s) with the 702, 744 and 788. How do these pres compare to the new mixpres? Seen others ask about this also but one has commented yet.

I think the 788 is the comparison most of us would be interested in, as those are SD's best preamps to this point.  From the horse's mouth:
http://www.sounddevices.com/tech-notes/788t-microphone-preamplifiers (http://www.sounddevices.com/tech-notes/788t-microphone-preamplifiers)

they've had NINE YEARS of R&D and tech advances.  I doubt they would release an inferior product.

All I'm saying is that high-end discrete analog components tend to be expensive, which is not a big deal in a $6500 device but it IS a big deal in a $1700 one.

The digital conversion certainly should be better than the old 7 series as those chips have gotten better / cheaper, but it's the analog front end of the preamps that most interests me here, as they have to meet a much lower price point.  The 7-series (and the old MixPres) had beefy discrete components, and the 788 eliminated the input transformers, I believe.  I'm wondering what type of circuit the new Kashmir preamps use, and how they are getting superior performance at this much lower price.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: voltronic on October 08, 2017, 11:39:37 AM
They have said all along that the Kashmir pre-amps are a significant upgrade to the 7XX series pre-amps. I love my 744, but I hear a definite positive difference.

Thanks for sharing your comparison.

My only beef to date with these decks to date is the lack of a digital input - now especially with the 10T...they could have used one pair of the XLR inputs as a combo XLR/AES like the 744T has...

If they had done so, that would have even more seriously undercut sales for the 788, although it seems we're still waiting for AES42 mics to gain any serious market presence.

The other big missing feature from the 788 I'm hearing from the classical guys on the GS Remote board is linking multiple units for higher track counts.  This seems like something they certainly could add to the 10T through firmware updates.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: 2manyrocks on October 08, 2017, 04:26:59 PM
Purely my own conjecture, but I'm not sure if the mp10t really undercuts 788t sales if about everyone that can afford a 788t must have bought one by this point in its product cycle.  SD may be aiming at a broader market with this $1800 price point.  But this is all my own conjecture.

At the rate new recorders are being released, it almost seems risky to jump on any one of them until the market settles and we see how they really stack up in the real world.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: hi and lo on October 08, 2017, 05:52:39 PM
This conversation about preamp quality is absurd. No one here is equipped with the measurement tools (or ears) to test the tiny, minuscule theoretical differences that might exist. Everyone is recording amplified music, which makes any difference entirely moot, and the number of blind listening tests posted on this forum is exactly zero, as it has been for many, many years. Even sans listening comps... no one is even discussing published specifications, probably because they don't know what they mean.

Personal bias and marketing hype is the only thing being discussed here. There are huge feature set differences between the 6-series, 7-series, and mixpre series; spending even a moment discussing "preamp quality" is a colossal waste of time.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: voltronic on October 08, 2017, 09:10:51 PM
This conversation about preamp quality is absurd. No one here is equipped with the measurement tools (or ears) to test the tiny, minuscule theoretical differences that might exist. Everyone is recording amplified music, which makes any difference entirely moot, and the number of blind listening tests posted on this forum is exactly zero, as it has been for many, many years. Even sans listening comps... no one is even discussing published specifications, probably because they don't know what they mean.

Personal bias and marketing hype is the only thing being discussed here. There are huge feature set differences between the 6-series, 7-series, and mixpre series; spending even a moment discussing "preamp quality" is a colossal waste of time.

Maybe I'm an outlier compared to most of this forum, but I am never recording amplified music; I'm doing purely acoustic / classical so it's not a colossal waste of time to me.  For a typical concert I'm recording, which is choirs in churches, sometimes piano or organ, etc, preamp quality does make a difference.  If it didn't I never would have bought an FP-24, nor would I have had my 70D modified, both of which yielded positive benefits in my recordings.  Having heard quite a few classical recordings made with 7-series recorders but never being able to afford one, the prospect of the new MixPre recorders having as good or better preamps is very attractive to me, but I'd like to know how they are achieving that at this price point. 

The published specs certainly are impressive (particularly the EIN), and that probably does deserve more discussion.  Again, that's part of my curiosity how they are managing to do this for the price.

Your point about the lack of blind tests is definitely valid.  And you're right that it probably wouldn't make much difference for amplified music, but I could care less about that.  I'd like to hear such a shootout in a controlled environment with a purely acoustic concert.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: hi and lo on October 08, 2017, 09:37:01 PM
Duly noted. Unfortunately, you will probably never find the level of sophisticated discussion you're looking for on this forum. The published specifications for each device already tell virtually everything you need to know, yet the ability to reference them in meaningful discussion is like asking people to explain quantum mechanics. Seemingly, the only question ever asked is "how do they sound?" followed by a total absence of even casual comparison samples.

If we just look at a few simple specs (EIN, S/N Ratio, and THD), the answer is incredibly simple. Units like the 70d, M10, etc. perform around -120dBu EIN. This is already pretty good, however units include the SD 7xx series, 6xx series, Mixpre series, the Sony PCM-D100, or the Sonosax/Aeta recorders (just to name a few) are all going to be measurably better. Around -128dBu to -130dBu EIN, and quite frankly, it's never going to get any better than that. All of these units are world class recorders (even when marketed as mixers) and I would challenge anyone here prove even a small difference between something like the 7xx recorders and the "Kashmir" preamps. It's marketing hype, nothing more.

I probably sound grumpy and truth be told I am because how "how do they sound" is a stupid fucking question thrown around constantly on this forum. Feature such as form factor, battery life, redundancy, gain control, reliability, etc. are infinitely more important even when recording mosquito farts. Unless you're putting a transformer in the signal path, these units all "sound" the same (and sound really damn good). No one should be ditching a 7xx recorder for "Kashmir" preamps, especially when the feature set of the 7xx recorders is still significantly more robust.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: voltronic on October 09, 2017, 06:14:55 AM
Duly noted. Unfortunately, you will probably never find the level of sophisticated discussion you're looking for on this forum. The published specifications for each device already tell virtually everything you need to know, yet the ability to reference them in meaningful discussion is like asking people to explain quantum mechanics. Seemingly, the only question ever asked is "how do they sound?" followed by a total absence of even casual comparison samples.

If we just look at a few simple specs (EIN, S/N Ratio, and THD), the answer is incredibly simple. Units like the 70d, M10, etc. perform around -120dBu EIN. This is already pretty good, however units include the SD 7xx series, 6xx series, Mixpre series, the Sony PCM-D100, or the Sonosax/Aeta recorders (just to name a few) are all going to be measurably better. Around -128dBu to -130dBu EIN, and quite frankly, it's never going to get any better than that. All of these units are world class recorders (even when marketed as mixers) and I would challenge anyone here prove even a small difference between something like the 7xx recorders and the "Kashmir" preamps. It's marketing hype, nothing more.

I probably sound grumpy and truth be told I am because how "how do they sound" is a stupid fucking question thrown around constantly on this forum. Feature such as form factor, battery life, redundancy, gain control, reliability, etc. are infinitely more important even when recording mosquito farts. Unless you're putting a transformer in the signal path, these units all "sound" the same (and sound really damn good). No one should be ditching a 7xx recorder for "Kashmir" preamps, especially when the feature set of the 7xx recorders is still significantly more robust.

All good points.  Personally I dislike preamps (or mics) that color the sound in any significant way.  What I'm looking for is transparent with low noise, and all of those you mention probably have that.

I disagree with your "sophisticated discussion" comment, though.  There's quite a bit of sophisticated discussion I've enjoyed on this forum, and some of it way above my head.

You have to acknowledge that it's often not simple or practical to set up the environment for a proper ABX like what you're looking for (how many here own passive splitters?), nor do I suspect many users on this board have an Audio Precision unit to thoroughly measure any of this equipment.  I think it makes more sense to take the "professional reviewers" to task, as they do have access to such equipment and circumstances.  Mic shootouts are so much easier as long as your recorder / preamp has the channels to cover all of them and you're very careful about placement.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: 2manyrocks on October 09, 2017, 07:07:12 AM
I think we have to look at who these things are really designed for.  MP10T may be aimed at different users than the MP6, especially since the T generates timecode and has 8 xlr inputs.  The MP6 seems very much focused on individual DSLR video recordists using DSLRS that can generate their own timecode to the point that SD has posted specific camera directions.  http://cdn.sounddevices.com/download/guides/MixPreSeries-PanasonicGH45.pdf  The MP6 is still at a more affordable price point than the 10T. 
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: hi and lo on October 09, 2017, 01:13:19 PM

You have to acknowledge that it's often not simple or practical to set up the environment for a proper ABX like what you're looking for...

I didn't say proper, I said casual. As in, even a minimum level of effort put forth to help (or entertain) the community. There is no need for "professional reviewers" or access to expensive equipment. If one simply learns how to read and interpret the basic noise measurements, which are already done using Audio Precision equipment, it will be immediately obvious how a 70d vs. a MixPre Series vs. a 7xx Series might differ in sound. This published specifications already tell the complete story. Period.

We both know that no one here possesses the time, equipment, or knowledge to perform a "proper" comp, so why even bother to ask an anecdotal question about "sound" when it can't possibly be answered "properly?" I'd settle for the entertainment of a casual comp, but we don't even get that.

More importantly, anecdotes about the "sound" of a preamp and/or recorder aren't helpful, they're actually harmful. Asking how the Kashmir preamps compare to those in the 788T is nothing more than a tire kicking, window-shopping question; both units are already very near the theoretical limits for performance.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: willndmb on October 09, 2017, 02:07:04 PM
have a feeling I may be purchasing an mp6 with the forthcoming fire sale from people upgrading  :cheers: :guitarist: ;D
Sd 702 & 744 prices should be dropping also.
How does the mixpre pres compare to the old 702, 744 and 788s?
Paul or anyone who has had experience(s) with the 702, 744 and 788. How do these pres compare to the new mixpres? Seen others ask about this also but one has commented yet.

I think the 788 is the comparison most of us would be interested in, as those are SD's best preamps to this point.  From the horse's mouth:
http://www.sounddevices.com/tech-notes/788t-microphone-preamplifiers (http://www.sounddevices.com/tech-notes/788t-microphone-preamplifiers)

they've had NINE YEARS of R&D and tech advances.  I doubt they would release an inferior product.
you also have to take anything a company or "testimonial" tells you with a grain of salt
Of course they are not going to say, these stink in comparison.
Imo unless you do your own listening or find people you trust those are a waste.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: voltronic on October 09, 2017, 09:35:14 PM

You have to acknowledge that it's often not simple or practical to set up the environment for a proper ABX like what you're looking for...

I didn't say proper, I said casual. As in, even a minimum level of effort put forth to help (or entertain) the community. There is no need for "professional reviewers" or access to expensive equipment. If one simply learns how to read and interpret the basic noise measurements, which are already done using Audio Precision equipment, it will be immediately obvious how a 70d vs. a MixPre Series vs. a 7xx Series might differ in sound. This published specifications already tell the complete story. Period.

We both know that no one here possesses the time, equipment, or knowledge to perform a "proper" comp, so why even bother to ask an anecdotal question about "sound" when it can't possibly be answered "properly?" I'd settle for the entertainment of a casual comp, but we don't even get that.

More importantly, anecdotes about the "sound" of a preamp and/or recorder aren't helpful, they're actually harmful. Asking how the Kashmir preamps compare to those in the 788T is nothing more than a tire kicking, window-shopping question; both units are already very near the theoretical limits for performance.

I get what you're saying that either way the performance is still probably very high, but I don't believe that specs always tell the whole story.

My call for comparison with the 788 is based upon SD previously saying that those were their finest preamps out of their entire line of 6- and 7- series, and later saying the new Kashmir pres are equal or better.  Yes, the specs look great, but as I said before it's how they can do it at such a low price while still being US made that interests me.  If we were comparing a 788 to similar Aeta or Zaxcom units, then it would be more or less tire-kicking as you say.

Specs can also be presented in a way to impress those who are less informed, and it's unfortunate that a no-BS company like SD has done this in a couple places with this new series.  See, for example, the so-called "32 bit precision" of the ADC (as if that mattered), or that they're featuring -130 dBV EIN in marketing statements because it looks more impressive than the equivalent -128 dBu in the way you'd typically see it expressed.

It's not very likely I'll ever get the comparison I'm interested in anyway, since no one who already owns a 788 is likely to buy a 10T because of the feature difference as you pointed out.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: hi and lo on October 10, 2017, 01:27:16 AM

I get what you're saying that either way the performance is still probably very high, but I don't believe that specs always tell the whole story.


Exactly my point. This is why marketing departments exist. Believe whatever you want, but the specs do tell the entire story.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: IronFilm on October 10, 2017, 09:03:08 AM
The "joy stick" for start and stop is a bit sketchy, unless there is a hold/lock feature.

SD's 6-series recorders use the joystick too. I own and use a 633 all the time and have never had an issue with it.

Sound Devices 552 uses the joystick as well for record/playback/etc, and yeah.... I find it to be *very* weird at first! But you get used to it eventually.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: justink on October 10, 2017, 10:13:44 AM
I was comparing apples to oranges with the V3 to MixPre10T size because i own a V3 and that was easy for me to visualize.

but i looked at dimensions again and it looks like the MixPre10T is the same size (a hair smaller) than the 744T but two inches deeper (battery pack and the extended rack rings).

so, it's basically the same size as the 744T but with FOUR times as many preamps.

impressive.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: MakersMarc on October 10, 2017, 03:58:22 PM
Unlike specs or company hype my ears have never let me down. I trust em. Different flavors for different peeps. The euphonious distortion caused by transformers ain't for everyone I love it. Nothing to do with specs.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: down2earthlandscaper on October 10, 2017, 05:28:48 PM
Duly noted. Unfortunately, you will probably never find the level of sophisticated discussion you're looking for on this forum. The published specifications for each device already tell virtually everything you need to know, yet the ability to reference them in meaningful discussion is like asking people to explain quantum mechanics. Seemingly, the only question ever asked is "how do they sound?" followed by a total absence of even casual comparison samples.

If we just look at a few simple specs (EIN, S/N Ratio, and THD), the answer is incredibly simple. Units like the 70d, M10, etc. perform around -120dBu EIN. This is already pretty good, however units include the SD 7xx series, 6xx series, Mixpre series, the Sony PCM-D100, or the Sonosax/Aeta recorders (just to name a few) are all going to be measurably better. Around -128dBu to -130dBu EIN, and quite frankly, it's never going to get any better than that. All of these units are world class recorders (even when marketed as mixers) and I would challenge anyone here prove even a small difference between something like the 7xx recorders and the "Kashmir" preamps. It's marketing hype, nothing more.

I probably sound grumpy and truth be told I am because how "how do they sound" is a stupid fucking question thrown around constantly on this forum. Feature such as form factor, battery life, redundancy, gain control, reliability, etc. are infinitely more important even when recording mosquito farts. Unless you're putting a transformer in the signal path, these units all "sound" the same (and sound really damn good). No one should be ditching a 7xx recorder for "Kashmir" preamps, especially when the feature set of the 7xx recorders is still significantly more robust.

I own a 722 and love it. But I'm lacking a really good solution for 4 channels (I have a Zoom H6 which is ok, and an old R4 that I just don't use because of the file transfer hassle from that unit to the computer). These new mix pre's look really tempting, especially considering the price, and a good opportunity for me to get into a higher quality 4+ channel device. I'm just wondering what the new versions lack in feature set compared to the 7xx series?  Thanks
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: 2manyrocks on October 10, 2017, 05:41:39 PM
Mainly, smaller color LCD v. larger LED metering, having to buy a sled to use optional batteries v. L battery powering, having to buy something else v. what you already own.



Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: aaronji on October 10, 2017, 06:51:47 PM
Yes, the specs look great, but as I said before it's how they can do it at such a low price while still being US made that interests me.

Quote from: Paul Isaacs
There are many reasons why there is a cost difference between the 702 and MixPre: the 702 is over 10-year old technology. Progress in component performance and DSP/FPGA, efficiencies in manufacturing and design, different code architecture, use of different materials and components, different I/O, different feature sets and more.

(http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=181803.msg2224694#msg2224694 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=181803.msg2224694#msg2224694))
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: hi and lo on October 10, 2017, 07:41:34 PM

I own a 722 and love it. But I'm lacking a really good solution for 4 channels (I have a Zoom H6 which is ok, and an old R4 that I just don't use because of the file transfer hassle from that unit to the computer). These new mix pre's look really tempting, especially considering the price, and a good opportunity for me to get into a higher quality 4+ channel device. I'm just wondering what the new versions lack in feature set compared to the 7xx series?  Thanks

Great question and I hear you. If you're stuck on the 722/702T, well a big feature missing is the extra channels. Hard to argue with that. My statement was aimed more at 744T/788T users, but for someone with a 722 here's some of the 'robust' features I see missing on the MixPre series:

- Pre-roll recording buffer
- Dual-Media Recording
- Compact Flash Support (can be important due to SD Card compatibility issues)
- Support for Mono Wav, MP3, and FLAC recording (Only Poly Wav is supported)
- AES3 / SPDIF Digital Inputs and Outputs
- Balanced L/R Outputs (TA3) (absent on MixPre3/6, only available on Mixpre10T)
- Timecode / Wordclock generator (absent on MixPre3/6, only available on Mixpre10T)
- Hirose Power Connector (absent on MixPre3/6, only available on Mixpre10T)

For the casual taper, I wouldn't consider most of these missing features to be huge deal-breakers. Timecode / Wordclock is probably the biggest missing feature for the professional user, but 99% of the time is irrelevant for the average concert taper.

The lack of a Hirose connector seems to be annoying from the threads I've been reading in the Remote Power section and the only solution is to buy a pretty expensive sled adapter. It puts your $899 recorder well over $1000 and you're having to buy a 3rd party product. Not sure why Sound Devices didn't come out of the gate with their own adapter products.

For me, the lack of Digital I/O support is probably the biggest issue. This might be unimportant for a 722 owner, but as 744T user (and previously DR-680), one of the main reasons for having extra channels is to take a digital patch from another taper in the section. After running an 8-channel deck, I quickly found that my desire to run more than one set of stereo mics + take a board feed was usually pretty minimal, but I almost always want to grab a buddy's pull so I could do casual listening tests at home. I'm usually running Schoeps, so when a friend was running MiLabs or MBHO's, I wouldn't hesitate to grab a feed from their digital output if I had spare channels. However, my enthusiasm for taking a feed usually was tempered if I had to take an analog patch, which on the MixPre series is the only option as there are no digital inputs, even on the 10T.

I'm also incredibly unimpressed with Sound Devices ability to write to SD Cards in the year 2017. I'm sorry, but having to have an approved SD card list is bullshit and having to buy your SD cards directly from Sound Devices feels like outright fraud. There are countless recorders / mixers on the market, including the 7xx recorders, that rarely, if ever, have problems writing to removable storage. You don't see Sonosax, Nagra, or even Trashcam (for the most part) having this problem the way Sound Devices does. Compact Flash, while expensive and lower capacity, is more reliable, as is an internal hard drive. This is a big deal to me as I know that my trusty 744T is going to successfully capture the recording every time. The internal HDD (SDD in my case) is a feature I simply do not want to give up.

On a final note, I would also say that that user interface, include touchscreen and joystick, are a step in the wrong direction. They are more cost-efficient to build, but I cannot tell you the number of times I have seen issues with them in the Sound Devices Facebook group. Over the past 3-4 years (or however long the 6 series have been out), I have constantly seen busted/cracked LCD screens or software corrupted displays that are unreadable. With the 7xx series, the worst that would happen is a burnt LED. I don't need a color display, I don't like having to excessively access menus, and I like physical buttons.

So there you have it. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a MixPre6 at $899 simply for the extra channels, but if you already own a 744 or 788 I wouldn't bother.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: Sentry on October 10, 2017, 07:52:30 PM
It's not very likely I'll ever get the comparison I'm interested in anyway, since no one who already owns a 788 is likely to buy a 10T because of the feature difference as you pointed out.

You have a nice comparison chart here : https://www.gothamsound.com/sound-devices-mixpre-10t6-series-comparison-chart?utm_source=Gotham+Gazette&utm_campaign=fb46541d65-Inspired+Energy%2FF4%2FAmbient+Sales%2FKits%2FRebates&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_8cbb4c598a-fb46541d65-204834477 (https://www.gothamsound.com/sound-devices-mixpre-10t6-series-comparison-chart?utm_source=Gotham+Gazette&utm_campaign=fb46541d65-Inspired+Energy%2FF4%2FAmbient+Sales%2FKits%2FRebates&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_8cbb4c598a-fb46541d65-204834477)
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: MakersMarc on October 10, 2017, 09:21:19 PM
Can I ask wtf anyone needs 10 inputs for doing what we do? I get four channels but ten? Hosting others mics?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: hi and lo on October 10, 2017, 09:35:31 PM
Can I ask wtf anyone needs 10 inputs for doing what we do? I get four channels but ten? Hosting others mics?

You're right, we don't. These units aren't even marketed to "us." They're designed for the needs of pro sound and film users and forums like JW Sound, which I would encourage anyone who hasn't to check out, are a better place to find discussion relevant to all features these units provide. These units can still be used by concert tapers, but typically only use the most basic recording features are leveraged.

The truth is, concert tapers have long since been forgotten by the major equipment manufactures. Even Grace Design has forgotten about us as the last field recording product they released was the Spacebar, which I think was about 10 years ago. We'd all love to see them produce a 4-channel V4 preamp/recorder designed for field use, but it's seemingly never going to happen.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: voltronic on October 11, 2017, 06:23:18 AM
Yes, the specs look great, but as I said before it's how they can do it at such a low price while still being US made that interests me.

Quote from: Paul Isaacs
There are many reasons why there is a cost difference between the 702 and MixPre: the 702 is over 10-year old technology. Progress in component performance and DSP/FPGA, efficiencies in manufacturing and design, different code architecture, use of different materials and components, different I/O, different feature sets and more.

(http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=181803.msg2224694#msg2224694 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=181803.msg2224694#msg2224694))

Thanks, I had missed that post.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: justink on October 11, 2017, 09:23:38 AM
Can I ask wtf anyone needs 10 inputs for doing what we do? I get four channels but ten? Hosting others mics?

hosting other mics.  but i've been wanting to do multitrack direct outs from the soundboard for a while.  that way i can mix to my liking at home and not have to take the sometimes poor board main mix.  for a solo or duo with multiple instruments, 8 or 10 is just about perfect.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: justink on October 11, 2017, 09:25:54 AM
Can I ask wtf anyone needs 10 inputs for doing what we do? I get four channels but ten? Hosting others mics?

You're right, we don't. These units aren't even marketed to "us." They're designed for the needs of pro sound and film users and forums like JW Sound, which I would encourage anyone who hasn't to check out, are a better place to find discussion relevant to all features these units provide. These units can still be used by concert tapers, but typically only use the most basic recording features are leveraged.

The truth is, concert tapers have long since been forgotten by the major equipment manufactures. Even Grace Design has forgotten about us as the last field recording product they released was the Spacebar, which I think was about 10 years ago. We'd all love to see them produce a 4-channel V4 preamp/recorder designed for field use, but it's seemingly never going to happen.

been dreaming about this.  i know they are aware of the interest.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: MakersMarc on October 11, 2017, 10:19:52 AM
I guess our numbers are way down, it just ain't like it used to be. Christ, there had to be thirty STANDS at XMas jam 2003 in the section, not even counting the fob crew. Just don't see that much anymore. Suppose all the live release should of every show and etree made a lot of peeps give up the trade. Those of us left try to make up for it by owning obscene amounts of gear me included.  :lol:
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: down2earthlandscaper on October 11, 2017, 03:25:10 PM
I guess our numbers are way down, it just ain't like it used to be. Christ, there had to be thirty STANDS at XMas jam 2003 in the section, not even counting the fob crew. Just don't see that much anymore. Suppose all the live release should of every show and etree made a lot of peeps give up the trade. Those of us left try to make up for it by owning obscene amounts of gear me included.  :lol:

LOL. So true

Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: IronFilm on October 12, 2017, 05:24:59 AM
Can I ask wtf anyone needs 10 inputs for doing what we do? I get four channels but ten? Hosting others mics?

Reality TV shows. They can quickly get to crazy high track counts!

Heck, even myself when I was doing an ultra low budget feature film was often maxing out my F4 and recording 6 tracks at once, and wishing I could run just one or two more wireless into it....

And if I was not doing this solo, but with a team in my sound department (wouldn't a 3 man sound crew be the dream! ahh), then you could easily throw on another five tracks to that.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: acidjack on October 12, 2017, 02:20:23 PM

I own a 722 and love it. But I'm lacking a really good solution for 4 channels (I have a Zoom H6 which is ok, and an old R4 that I just don't use because of the file transfer hassle from that unit to the computer). These new mix pre's look really tempting, especially considering the price, and a good opportunity for me to get into a higher quality 4+ channel device. I'm just wondering what the new versions lack in feature set compared to the 7xx series?  Thanks

Great question and I hear you. If you're stuck on the 722/702T, well a big feature missing is the extra channels. Hard to argue with that. My statement was aimed more at 744T/788T users, but for someone with a 722 here's some of the 'robust' features I see missing on the MixPre series:

- Pre-roll recording buffer
- Dual-Media Recording
- Compact Flash Support (can be important due to SD Card compatibility issues)
- Support for Mono Wav, MP3, and FLAC recording (Only Poly Wav is supported)
- AES3 / SPDIF Digital Inputs and Outputs
- Balanced L/R Outputs (TA3) (absent on MixPre3/6, only available on Mixpre10T)
- Timecode / Wordclock generator (absent on MixPre3/6, only available on Mixpre10T)
- Hirose Power Connector (absent on MixPre3/6, only available on Mixpre10T)

For the casual taper, I wouldn't consider most of these missing features to be huge deal-breakers. Timecode / Wordclock is probably the biggest missing feature for the professional user, but 99% of the time is irrelevant for the average concert taper.

The lack of a Hirose connector seems to be annoying from the threads I've been reading in the Remote Power section and the only solution is to buy a pretty expensive sled adapter. It puts your $899 recorder well over $1000 and you're having to buy a 3rd party product. Not sure why Sound Devices didn't come out of the gate with their own adapter products.

For me, the lack of Digital I/O support is probably the biggest issue. This might be unimportant for a 722 owner, but as 744T user (and previously DR-680), one of the main reasons for having extra channels is to take a digital patch from another taper in the section. After running an 8-channel deck, I quickly found that my desire to run more than one set of stereo mics + take a board feed was usually pretty minimal, but I almost always want to grab a buddy's pull so I could do casual listening tests at home. I'm usually running Schoeps, so when a friend was running MiLabs or MBHO's, I wouldn't hesitate to grab a feed from their digital output if I had spare channels. However, my enthusiasm for taking a feed usually was tempered if I had to take an analog patch, which on the MixPre series is the only option as there are no digital inputs, even on the 10T.

I'm also incredibly unimpressed with Sound Devices ability to write to SD Cards in the year 2017. I'm sorry, but having to have an approved SD card list is bullshit and having to buy your SD cards directly from Sound Devices feels like outright fraud. There are countless recorders / mixers on the market, including the 7xx recorders, that rarely, if ever, have problems writing to removable storage. You don't see Sonosax, Nagra, or even Trashcam (for the most part) having this problem the way Sound Devices does. Compact Flash, while expensive and lower capacity, is more reliable, as is an internal hard drive. This is a big deal to me as I know that my trusty 744T is going to successfully capture the recording every time. The internal HDD (SDD in my case) is a feature I simply do not want to give up.

On a final note, I would also say that that user interface, include touchscreen and joystick, are a step in the wrong direction. They are more cost-efficient to build, but I cannot tell you the number of times I have seen issues with them in the Sound Devices Facebook group. Over the past 3-4 years (or however long the 6 series have been out), I have constantly seen busted/cracked LCD screens or software corrupted displays that are unreadable. With the 7xx series, the worst that would happen is a burnt LED. I don't need a color display, I don't like having to excessively access menus, and I like physical buttons.

So there you have it. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a MixPre6 at $899 simply for the extra channels, but if you already own a 744 or 788 I wouldn't bother.

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: acidjack on October 12, 2017, 02:22:39 PM
Can I ask wtf anyone needs 10 inputs for doing what we do? I get four channels but ten? Hosting others mics?

hosting other mics.  but i've been wanting to do multitrack direct outs from the soundboard for a while.  that way i can mix to my liking at home and not have to take the sometimes poor board main mix.  for a solo or duo with multiple instruments, 8 or 10 is just about perfect.

Not all of us do exactly the same thing. Not often, but sometimes I will run onstage mics + audience mics + stereo mix + a couple of discreet SBD channels, for example. I've also linked 2 F8s in order to do a 16-track multitrack.  90% of the time, though, yeah, you're right, it's not something "we" need. It can be amusing to run a whole bunch of different pairs from the same spot, but that's not really useful other than comparing types of mics.

Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: dallman on October 12, 2017, 02:32:41 PM
It can be amusing to run a whole bunch of different pairs from the same spot, but that's not really useful other than comparing types of mics.
I totally agree, and for whatever reason I love to do this which is just an over complication of what could be a very simple process. Go figure...  ;D ::) 8)
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: rodeen on October 12, 2017, 03:20:01 PM
You're just a glutton for punishment   :bigsmile: 

And don't stop.  I love your variety of recordings! 

It can be amusing to run a whole bunch of different pairs from the same spot, but that's not really useful other than comparing types of mics.
I totally agree, and for whatever reason I love to do this which is just an over complication of what could be a very  and is simple process. Go figure...  ;D ::) 8)
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: acidjack on October 12, 2017, 04:09:44 PM
You're just a glutton for punishment   :bigsmile: 

And don't stop.  I love your variety of recordings! 

It can be amusing to run a whole bunch of different pairs from the same spot, but that's not really useful other than comparing types of mics.
I totally agree, and for whatever reason I love to do this which is just an over complication of what could be a very  and is simple process. Go figure...  ;D ::) 8)

Exactly. No shame in it--just because it isn't "necessary" doesn't make it bad!
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: voltronic on October 12, 2017, 07:00:50 PM

I own a 722 and love it. But I'm lacking a really good solution for 4 channels (I have a Zoom H6 which is ok, and an old R4 that I just don't use because of the file transfer hassle from that unit to the computer). These new mix pre's look really tempting, especially considering the price, and a good opportunity for me to get into a higher quality 4+ channel device. I'm just wondering what the new versions lack in feature set compared to the 7xx series?  Thanks

Great question and I hear you. If you're stuck on the 722/702T, well a big feature missing is the extra channels. Hard to argue with that. My statement was aimed more at 744T/788T users, but for someone with a 722 here's some of the 'robust' features I see missing on the MixPre series:

- Pre-roll recording buffer
- Dual-Media Recording
- Compact Flash Support (can be important due to SD Card compatibility issues)
- Support for Mono Wav, MP3, and FLAC recording (Only Poly Wav is supported)[/b]
- AES3 / SPDIF Digital Inputs and Outputs
- Balanced L/R Outputs (TA3) (absent on MixPre3/6, only available on Mixpre10T)
- Timecode / Wordclock generator (absent on MixPre3/6, only available on Mixpre10T)
- Hirose Power Connector (absent on MixPre3/6, only available on Mixpre10T)

Good summary.  Pre-roll and iso mono files could (and should) be addressed through future firmware updates.  I wonder if they could implement true dual-media recording through the USB-A port to a flash drive, instead of the periodic chunk writing the 10T has now.

From the above list, the most glaring hardware omissions to me are the lack of digital I/O (including AES42 for digital mics) and balanced outputs.  Having both of these onboard would make these units more true successors to the MixPre, 302, and MixPre-D field mixers.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: gewwang on October 12, 2017, 09:20:29 PM

I own a 722 and love it. But I'm lacking a really good solution for 4 channels (I have a Zoom H6 which is ok, and an old R4 that I just don't use because of the file transfer hassle from that unit to the computer). These new mix pre's look really tempting, especially considering the price, and a good opportunity for me to get into a higher quality 4+ channel device. I'm just wondering what the new versions lack in feature set compared to the 7xx series?  Thanks

Great question and I hear you. If you're stuck on the 722/702T, well a big feature missing is the extra channels. Hard to argue with that. My statement was aimed more at 744T/788T users, but for someone with a 722 here's some of the 'robust' features I see missing on the MixPre series:

- Pre-roll recording buffer
- Dual-Media Recording
- Compact Flash Support (can be important due to SD Card compatibility issues)
- Support for Mono Wav, MP3, and FLAC recording (Only Poly Wav is supported)[/b]
- AES3 / SPDIF Digital Inputs and Outputs
- Balanced L/R Outputs (TA3) (absent on MixPre3/6, only available on Mixpre10T)
- Timecode / Wordclock generator (absent on MixPre3/6, only available on Mixpre10T)
- Hirose Power Connector (absent on MixPre3/6, only available on Mixpre10T)

Good summary.  Pre-roll and iso mono files could (and should) be addressed through future firmware updates.  I wonder if they could implement true dual-media recording through the USB-A port to a flash drive, instead of the periodic chunk writing the 10T has now.

From the above list, the most glaring hardware omissions to me are the lack of digital I/O (including AES42 for digital mics) and balanced outputs.  Having both of these onboard would make these units more true successors to the MixPre, 302, and MixPre-D field mixers.

You can add lack of "hold" capability to the list of things missing from the mixpre. I've stealthed with the mp3 about a dozen times and it hasn't been a problem so far but it is another thing I always have in the back of my mind.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: Sentry on October 12, 2017, 11:55:23 PM
...and balanced outputs...

The mixpre 10T have balanced output on ta-3
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: voltronic on October 13, 2017, 06:25:55 AM
...and balanced outputs...

The mixpre 10T have balanced output on ta-3

I know, I meant on the 3/6.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: sos on October 15, 2017, 12:55:46 AM
User Guide, now online:

http://cdn.sounddevices.com/download/guides/MixPre10T-UG.pdf (http://cdn.sounddevices.com/download/guides/MixPre10T-UG.pdf)
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: waltmon on October 25, 2017, 02:11:23 PM
Posted today as now shipping...
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: slam630 on October 26, 2017, 06:45:26 AM
Posted today as now shipping...

What store is shipping it?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: tgakidis on October 26, 2017, 06:46:56 AM
Posted today as now shipping...

What store is shipping it?

Each retailer gets a certain amount from the first batch.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: tgakidis on October 26, 2017, 04:58:58 PM
Just got my tracking info from Gotham.  Shipped today!
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: sos on October 26, 2017, 05:07:12 PM
Trew (Nashville) got an allotment of 3 units, which are all spoken for by preorders. Sweetwater (Ft. Wayne, IN) expecting their first units to arrive tomorrow...
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: yug du nord on October 26, 2017, 06:13:09 PM
It looks like Full Compass has em in stock....  straight from the motherland!
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: rippleish20 on October 26, 2017, 06:13:37 PM
Just got my tracking info from Gotham.  Shipped today!

Nice!
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: IronFilm on October 27, 2017, 12:47:47 AM
Gotham Sound does the first ever unboxing video of the Sound Devices MixPre-10T:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u79d_BT76w
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: justink on October 27, 2017, 03:01:48 PM
Trew (Nashville) got an allotment of 3 units, which are all spoken for by preorders. Sweetwater (Ft. Wayne, IN) expecting their first units to arrive tomorrow...

They have an extra one now. I cancelled my order when they called this morning.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: pohaku on October 27, 2017, 07:18:40 PM
I suspect they have a lengthy waiting list.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: 2manyrocks on October 27, 2017, 09:42:03 PM
Great opportunity to grow your list of recorders.   ;D
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: justink on October 27, 2017, 09:58:25 PM
I suspect they have a lengthy waiting list.

yeah, i'm sure. 

i'm still going to get one.  i just want to sit back a month or two and see what everyone does with battery options and settings and whatnot.  i'm not in a hurry.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: pohaku on October 28, 2017, 10:10:53 AM
Great opportunity to grow your list of recorders.   ;D

Uh huh, I think I'm good (for now).  Recently sprung for a used 788T.  But, the frenzy over the new SD recorders is certainly entertaining.  Waiting to see how these work out for folks in the real world.  It is nice that manufacturers like SD continue to produce new products like this, even if our kind of audio recording isn't really their main market.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: Jamos on October 28, 2017, 01:46:00 PM
The angle/direction of the Hirose connector seems like a pain.  That's kind of my only quibble with the recorder so far.  It's great that they added it, but...

Do we think a right-angle Hirose connector will allow the recorder to rest on the battery sled without putting any pressure on the Hirose?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: tgakidis on October 28, 2017, 02:38:17 PM
The angle/direction of the Hirose connector seems like a pain.  That's kind of my only quibble with the recorder so far.  It's great that they added ist, but...

Do we think a right-angle Hirose connector will allow the recorder to rest on the battery sled without putting any pressure on the Hirose?

I will report back on this Monday when I have the unit in hand
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: justink on October 28, 2017, 02:46:53 PM
The angle/direction of the Hirose connector seems like a pain.  That's kind of my only quibble with the recorder so far.  It's great that they added ist, but...

Do we think a right-angle Hirose connector will allow the recorder to rest on the battery sled without putting any pressure on the Hirose?

I will report back on this Monday when I have the unit in hand

this is what i'm most curious about as well.  if not... i'm going to have to rig up some stilts or something....
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: rigpimp on October 28, 2017, 03:28:37 PM
If anyone is buying in the first round but found none in stock try Dale Pro Audio.  I found my 6 there weeks after the first drop.  No affiliation, just a tip for the family.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: yug du nord on October 29, 2017, 10:24:48 PM
If anyone is buying in the first round but found none in stock try Dale Pro Audio.  I found my 6 there weeks after the first drop.  No affiliation, just a tip for the family.

I have no skin in this game, as I'm happy with running 2 channels....  but I'll say the same thing about Full Compass.
I've said it before, and I'll probably say it again...  but the Full Compass website says that they have the 10T in stock.
I've bought SD gear from Full Compass before and they are great to deal with IMO. 
And they are a Wisconsin company...  as is Sound Devices.
So.................   http://www.fullcompass.com/searchresults.php?search_simple=true&txtAll=mixpre (http://www.fullcompass.com/searchresults.php?search_simple=true&txtAll=mixpre)
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: jazzgtrl4 on October 30, 2017, 11:00:41 AM
If anyone is buying the 10 and selling their 6, let me know. thanks
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: sos on October 30, 2017, 05:11:37 PM
My Halloween treat (from Sweetwater) just arrived!

Size is surprisingly small. It fits snuggly inside my Sachtler (fka: Petrol) #SN607 lightweight audio bag (which is their smallest model).

edit: Hirose connector positioning (for vertical field bag use) is dumbfounding, but with some re-positioning of the provided velcro inserts in my field bag, stress can be relieved off the connector...
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: justink on October 30, 2017, 07:21:29 PM
Hirose positioning is very bothersome... 

feel like the only solution is some stilts (like the v3 stilts out there) with cutouts for cables and instead of screwing them in, all you can do is zip tie them to the things on the sides.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: rippleish20 on October 30, 2017, 07:25:56 PM
Hirose positioning is very bothersome... 

 

Someone did a video about the 10-T (Gotham maybe?) and they had something plugged into the Hirose but chose to stand the (lopsided) device up while talking about it and all I  could think was that exact same thing - kind of a poor choice for where to locate the Hirose connector, or at least the wrong angle.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: justink on October 30, 2017, 09:39:15 PM
Hirose positioning is very bothersome... 

 

Someone did a video about the 10-T (Gotham maybe?) and they had something plugged into the Hirose but chose to stand the (lopsided) device up while talking about it and all I  could think was that exact same thing - kind of a poor choice for where to locate the Hirose connector, or at least the wrong angle.

yeah.  that same video/observation was enough for me to cancel my order until someone figures out a work around.

like i said, the only thing i can see at this point is fabricating some stilts/rack solution to lift it off the bottom of the bag.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: tgakidis on October 31, 2017, 05:22:09 AM
I have a petrol bag with velcro straps that suspend the unit so the hirose is no issue with me.  The right angle hirose sticks out a little less but still prevents it from laying flush.

I have to say I am very pleased with the unit now that I have it in hand.  Having been a mixpre6 user already, the learning curb is null :)
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: 2manyrocks on October 31, 2017, 07:50:13 AM
I'd like to hear your thoughts on the two mixpres since you've used both of the, especially what made you upgrade to the 10t?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: tgakidis on October 31, 2017, 08:54:55 AM
I'd like to hear your thoughts on the two mixpres since you've used both of the, especially what made you upgrade to the 10t?

Haven’t used the 10 yet beside playing with it this morning.

The purchase was not an upgrade, it was an addition to my arsenal.  Different gear for different purposes.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: dactylus on October 31, 2017, 01:03:02 PM
I have a petrol bag with velcro straps that suspend the unit so the hirose is no issue with me.  The right angle hirose sticks out a little less but still prevents it from laying flush.

I have to say I am very pleased with the unit now that I have it in hand.  Having been a mixpre6 user already, the learning curb is null :)

What model of Petrol bag are you using for the 10T?  Congrats on the acquisition!!

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: tgakidis on October 31, 2017, 01:16:27 PM
I have a petrol bag with velcro straps that suspend the unit so the hirose is no issue with me.  The right angle hirose sticks out a little less but still prevents it from laying flush.

I have to say I am very pleased with the unit now that I have it in hand.  Having been a mixpre6 user already, the learning curb is null :)

What model of Petrol bag are you using for the 10T?  Congrats on the acquisition!!

 :cheers:

I have the 601, 602 & 603.  I will reach for one based on the other gear I am running.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: justink on October 31, 2017, 05:17:44 PM
I'd like to hear your thoughts on the two mixpres since you've used both of the, especially what made you upgrade to the 10t?

Haven’t used the 10 yet beside playing with it this morning.

The purchase was not an upgrade, it was an addition to my arsenal.  Different gear for different purposes.

have you had a chance to do any battery tests?  i'm trying to find the right battery for this thing too.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: tgakidis on October 31, 2017, 05:20:29 PM
I'd like to hear your thoughts on the two mixpres since you've used both of the, especially what made you upgrade to the 10t?

Haven’t used the 10 yet beside playing with it this morning.

The purchase was not an upgrade, it was an addition to my arsenal.  Different gear for different purposes.

have you had a chance to do any battery tests?  i'm trying to find the right battery for this thing too.

No, I’ve been at work all day.  I will not do any tests, plan to run off tekkeons or AC when available.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: tgakidis on November 01, 2017, 06:00:14 AM
Getting the bag ready for the maiden voyage tonight!  Charlie Hunter here in Portsmouth, NH.  6 channels on-stage + SBD.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: aaronji on November 01, 2017, 07:26:40 PM
^ Please post your recording! I am a long time fan (since my Berkeley years in the early 90's) and would love to hear it...
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: tgakidis on November 04, 2017, 09:06:33 AM
^ Please post your recording! I am a long time fan (since my Berkeley years in the early 90's) and would love to hear it...

Here you go!

https://archive.org/details/ch2017-11-01.ar51.c426b.sbd.flac/ch2017-11-01.ar51.c426b.sbd.d1t03.flac
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: dactylus on November 05, 2017, 09:23:04 AM
^ Please post your recording! I am a long time fan (since my Berkeley years in the early 90's) and would love to hear it...

Here you go!

https://archive.org/details/ch2017-11-01.ar51.c426b.sbd.flac/ch2017-11-01.ar51.c426b.sbd.d1t03.flac

Thanks Ted!  Sounds great!!

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: aaronji on November 06, 2017, 06:38:44 AM
Here you go!

Thanks!  Sounds awesome!  Kind of reminds me that I have a couple of uncirculated shows sitting on a hard drive somewhere...

Did you end up using the Tekkeons to power the 10T? 
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: tgakidis on November 06, 2017, 06:45:43 AM
Here you go!

Thanks!  Sounds awesome!  Kind of reminds me that I have a couple of uncirculated shows sitting on a hard drive somewhere...

Did you end up using the Tekkeons to power the 10T?

No, I used AC power since I was running my AR-51’s with the pattern boxes which need AC power.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: tbone65 on November 15, 2017, 05:53:14 PM
b and h 1800.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: sos on November 29, 2017, 11:20:33 AM
Firmware v. 1.52 now out:

https://www.sounddevices.com/support/downloads/mixpres-firmware


Changes introduced in 1.52 include:

Fixed

    Rare issue where input level would momentarily change
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: noahbickart on November 29, 2017, 11:45:52 AM
Firmware v. 1.52 now out:

https://www.sounddevices.com/support/downloads/mixpres-firmware


Changes introduced in 1.52 include:

Fixed

    Rare issue where input level would momentarily change

This is why I like giving SD my money. All gear will have problems. SD, unlike many other companies, has a track record of solving these problems.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: F.O.Bean on November 29, 2017, 12:46:35 PM
Checking in.  Is this the Mixpre-6 early adopter's remorse thread?   :-*

2 new features:

1) Hirose power in!
2) Backup recording to a USB drive!  Can this be added via firmware updates to the 3/6?

Background copy to USB thumbdrive only on the MixPre-10T, not the -3 or -6.

Yes, but why? Seems like that would be a simple firmware update for the Mixpre6 and Mixpre3! I'd LOVE to be able to mirror the SD card with a tiny USB A thumb drive!

Thanks for any info you can give me on that Paul ;)
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: Paul Isaacs on November 30, 2017, 10:00:02 AM
Quote

Background copy to USB thumbdrive only on the MixPre-10T, not the -3 or -6.

Yes, but why? Seems like that would be a simple firmware update for the Mixpre6 and Mixpre3! I'd LOVE to be able to mirror the SD card with a tiny USB A thumb drive!

Thanks for any info you can give me on that Paul ;)

The MixPre-10T has additional internal hardware to support mirroring to USB Thumbdrives.

Paul
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: sos on January 15, 2018, 10:09:42 AM
Approved media list, for the MixPre series, here:

https://www.sounddevices.com/support/approved-media/mixpre-series-approved-media-list

Re: approved thumbdrives, only 2 brands are listed (Samsung & SanDisk) and only in 2 sizes (32 & 64GB).

FYI, I've been successfully using the following 128GB SanDisk Ultra Fit (USB 3.0) as my backup, since the holidaze:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&O=&Q=&ap=y&c3api=1876%2C%7Bcreative%7D%2C%7Bkeyword%7D&gclid=Cj0KCQiAv_HSBRCkARIsAGaSsrCS-4HWT4gUKGQLCFSQmMRTipbReSXhD-mIVt9oCw9TNA40cd7Oq8caAnvdEALw_wcB&is=REG&m=Y&sku=1159919
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: sos on January 18, 2018, 11:29:36 AM
Firmware v. 1.53 now out:

https://www.sounddevices.com/support/downloads/mixpres-firmware

Changes introduced in 1.53 include:

Changed

    The MixPre-10T transport control's orange LED brightness is dimmed in stop mode to make it clearer when the unit is recording.
    The Take List indicates which file is playing back by displaying it in green text.

Fixed

    Limiters were not always enabled when switching from Advanced to Basic Mode
    Pans were not always correct after switching to Basic Mode from Advanced Mode with Inputs Linked.
    If timecode backup time expired when the MixPre-10T was powered off, TOD timecode was incorrect when next powered on.
    Rare stuttering of audio during playback of some files
    Audio crackling noise in headphones when turning HP encoder
    Incorrect gain values when channels are MS linked
    Sound Reports were not automatically copied to the USB thumbdrive (MixPre-10T only)
    New Project Name was not retained after a power cycle if no files were recorded in that project
    Long file names were not being displaying fully
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: justink on January 18, 2018, 02:04:53 PM
Is there a HOLD...?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: down2earthlandscaper on January 18, 2018, 06:25:52 PM
Is there a HOLD...?
^^^^this,please^^^^^
Gain adjust from Wingman app would be cool too...
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: noahbickart on January 18, 2018, 07:01:31 PM
Is there a HOLD...?
^^^^this,please^^^^^
Gain adjust from Wingman app would be cool too...

No hold. I suspect that could be changed with firmware. We should keep asking.

But I simply don't know how they would implement remote gain control without motorized knobs on the machine.

At the $899 price point not everything is possible. I'm happy they didn't include more, and kept the pice down.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: voltronic on January 19, 2018, 06:29:14 AM
Is there a HOLD...?
^^^^this,please^^^^^
Gain adjust from Wingman app would be cool too...

But I simply don't know how they would implement remote gain control without motorized knobs on the machine.


No need for motorized knobs; the knobs are only digital encoders which send signals to the software, which in turn tells the gain stages what to do.  It's all internal.  This is how the 788 can be remotely controlled by the CL-8 or CL-9, the 688 can be controlled by the CL-12, or how the Zoom F4/F8 can do remote gain from their mobile app.

If the knobs were actually analog pots as in the older SD unit (ex. 7-series excluding the 788) then they would need to be motorized.

The one place you tend to see motorized digital gain controls are faders on digital mixing consoles, such as when you trigger programmed scene cues and all of the faders move to their assigned positions.  I believe this is done because the fader position provides a clear visual feedback for the engineer, but in terms of what's happening under the hood it's otherwise not necessary.

Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: rippleish20 on January 31, 2018, 05:08:35 PM
Will the 10t fit in a Petrol 601?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: tgakidis on February 04, 2018, 05:57:07 AM
Will the 10t fit in a Petrol 601?

Yes
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: rippleish20 on February 04, 2018, 11:22:42 AM
Will the 10t fit in a Petrol 601?

Yes

Thanks Ted
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: waltmon on February 05, 2018, 02:59:24 AM
Would a right angle hirose connector alleviate the issues with the connectors awkward position?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: jazzgtrl4 on February 10, 2018, 07:16:40 PM
Does anyone run Neumann Km140/50's >  SD Mix pre 3 or 6 or 10 here?  direct in. Im curious how these preamps are with the Neumanns.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: jbell on February 11, 2018, 04:54:22 AM
Gordon runs Neumann's ak40s >lc3>pfa> Mixpre-6
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: waltmon on February 18, 2018, 07:39:50 PM
I am loving the Neumann > minpre-6 combo...
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: ArchivalAudio on February 24, 2018, 03:35:56 PM
This may be a stupid question, but since ther is no such thing as a stupid question. Here goes:
Is there a pre-record on the 10T?
If so is there a way to enable it?

Most decks I have owned  have has a 6 second pre-record function  so if in the pause record mode once the record button was press it would record 6 seconds prior to the button puch. This has often saved me from missing an introduction.

Any information would be most helpful!
Thanks
--Ian
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: aaronji on February 24, 2018, 05:26:37 PM
No, there’s no pre-record. Rumor has it that it will be in a future firmware update, though. It should be doable, as the meters are active before you press record. It’s one press record, so there isn’t a pause record mode...
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: Jamos on February 24, 2018, 06:32:38 PM
If it's possible to implement this feature with a firmware update, I find it really odd that SD did not include it from the beginning. 
It's kind of a standard option with nearly every digital recorder that's been released in the last 10 years.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: justink on February 24, 2018, 10:45:19 PM
If it's possible to implement this feature with a firmware update, I find it really odd that SD did not include it from the beginning. 
It's kind of a standard option with nearly every digital recorder that's been released in the last 10 years.

true.

or maybe it keeps getting looked over?

either way... with batteries and card sizes these days, just hit record before you head to the beer line or restroom and you can trim in post.

but still... it would be nice to add in a firmware update.

i'm hoping they come out with a fix for that funky hirose connection.  that's my main gripe before buying, right now. well, that and HOLD.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: ArchivalAudio on February 25, 2018, 04:21:19 PM
No, there’s no pre-record. Rumor has it that it will be in a future firmware update, though. It should be doable, as the meters are active before you press record. It’s one press record, so there isn’t a pause record mode...
Yes thanks. On the F8 that I just sold, you could engage record by either record direct, or pause record. either way it would have a 6 second pre-roll record. It is strange that it was not an included feature.
I guess I'll need to rely on the wingman app to quickly start my deck if needed.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: Gordon on February 25, 2018, 06:17:34 PM
Quote
with batteries and card sizes these days, just hit record before you head to the beer line or restroom and you can trim in post.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: ArchivalAudio on February 25, 2018, 08:58:34 PM
Quote
with batteries and card sizes these days, just hit record before you head to the beer line or restroom and you can trim in post.
I know I often do this. I just like to minimize files sizes if possible.....
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: ArchivalAudio on February 26, 2018, 01:44:58 AM
Ok so wait, is it true that there is really no Pad on the mic inputs?
This is one main reason I stepped away from my F8.  Really? Ok, then it looks like I may need a few more naiant MPD's
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: Gordon on February 26, 2018, 07:59:26 AM
are your mics really so hot that you need a pad?  I've never once in 15 years needed that.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: aaronji on February 26, 2018, 08:12:49 AM
If it's possible to implement this feature with a firmware update, I find it really odd that SD did not include it from the beginning. 
It's kind of a standard option with nearly every digital recorder that's been released in the last 10 years.

Maybe they thought their target users didn't need it?  At any rate, this post in the MixPre-3/6 thread (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=183580.msg2249171#msg2249171) says that SD is working on adding pre-record.  No idea if it will come to fruition, but it does give some hope.

Ok so wait, is it true that there is really no Pad on the mic inputs?
This is one main reason I stepped away from my F8.  Really? Ok, then it looks like I may need a few more naiant MPD's

I also doubt you will need attenuators.  The mic input can handle +14 dBu.  If that doesn't leave you enough headroom, you can always use the line inputs with phantom.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: ArchivalAudio on February 26, 2018, 05:59:13 PM
I run my Milab VM44's via the Naiant PFA's so there is no pad. They are especially hot when I run onstage.  The bodies have a -10db pad  but I usually no longer use them in order to more easily switch to my Naiant Milab-TinyBox when needed.
I'll try without the MPD's  but I do know on my DC196's I always have the -12db pad engaged even when I am not ruining on stage and at the house mix position.
I know without the pad enabled on the DC 196's or without the MPD's on the F8 my gain would be set trimmed close to the lowest possible gain position which left no room to turn the levels down.

Line inputs with phantom... hmmm like on the DR680.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: ArchivalAudio on March 04, 2018, 05:12:23 PM
Has anyone else had issues connecting the wingman app via bluetooth to the mixpre 10t on Android 8.1?

I thought it might be interference from the Naztech batteries and proximity and or gear bag and cabling. However at home I also tried the 12 v tascam ac to dc adapter and same issues.
After re booting my phone and powering down and on the mix pre a couple of times I was able to connect. Then i tried again and was unable to connect.
Sometimes the device would not show up at all othertimes it would appear but would not connect.
Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: Gordon on March 04, 2018, 05:47:52 PM
I have a mixpre 6 and android 8.1 and it's finicky for sure!  what I've found is I can not leave bluetooth on, on the mixpre (phone won't even see it).  I have to turn bt off and back on for it to connect.  it will then stay connected as long as the deck is powered up.  If I power down the deck between sets it does not connect when I power it back up.   turning bt on and off again works.  kind of a pain.....
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: ArchivalAudio on March 04, 2018, 06:48:01 PM
Thanks Gordon,  This makes some sense... and that may have been how I got it to connect... I'll try that later tonight at T-Sisters / Traveling McCourys

I have a mixpre 6 and android 8.1 and it's finicky for sure!  what I've found is I can not leave bluetooth on, on the mixpre (phone won't even see it).  I have to turn bt off and back on for it to connect.  it will then stay connected asa long as the deck is powered up.  If I power down the deck between sets it does not connect when I power it back up.   turning bt on and off again works.  kind of a pain.....

On another note I've noticed the 10T seems to eat my battery. My old f8 would hardly make a dent even with 6 phantom powered mics. The 10T used up half of the battery bars. Good thing I've got 2 Naztech's and I did still l have battery power left at the end of the night.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: noahbickart on March 04, 2018, 11:38:27 PM
Has anyone else had issues connecting the wingman app via bluetooth to the mixpre 10t on Android 8.1?

I thought it might be interference from the Naztech batteries and proximity and or gear bag and cabling. However at home I also tried the 12 v tascam ac to dc adapter and same issues.
After re booting my phone and powering down and on the mix pre a couple of times I was able to connect. Then i tried again and was unable to connect.
Sometimes the device would not show up at all othertimes it would appear but would not connect.
Any suggestions?

Since updating to the latest firmware, I've had similar problems with the ios version and my Mixpre6. Toggling the bluetooth on and off solves the problem, so that's now part of my setup routine. I suspect they'll fix it...
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: rigpimp on March 05, 2018, 11:10:03 AM
Since updating to the latest firmware, I've had similar problems with the ios version and my Mixpre6. Toggling the bluetooth on and off solves the problem, so that's now part of my setup routine. I suspect they'll fix it...

I've been a bit too lazy to upgrade for 1.52 to 1.53 and haven't noticed a problem with BT and Wingman which I use every time to monitor levels so it must be a 1.53 bug. 

Edit: Sorry I am on a Mixpre-6
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: ArchivalAudio on March 05, 2018, 06:50:58 PM
Since updating to the latest firmware, I've had similar problems with the ios version and my Mixpre6. Toggling the bluetooth on and off solves the problem, so that's now part of my setup routine. I suspect they'll fix it...

I've been a bit too lazy to upgrade for 1.52 to 1.53 and haven't noticed a problem with BT and Wingman which I use every time to monitor levels so it must be a 1.53 bug. 

Edit: Sorry I am on a Mixpre-6
I had the issue on 1.52 before the update yesterday  to 1.53, Last night I  just turned the bluetooth off in the 10t then back on. it seemed to work.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: Gordon on March 07, 2018, 08:09:45 AM
I never had 1.52 on my 6 and have had the issue for a while.  May be an android thing as I haven't heard many ios users complain about it.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: voltronic on March 07, 2018, 05:19:03 PM
SD is soon releasing a new version of this recorder aimed at musicians called the MixPre-10M:
http://www.sounddevices.com/products/recorders/mixpre-10m (http://www.sounddevices.com/products/recorders/mixpre-10m)

Here's an info page from TAI:
myemail.constantcontact.com/Introducing-the-MixPre-10M-from-Sound-Devices.html (http://myemail.constantcontact.com/Introducing-the-MixPre-10M-from-Sound-Devices.html)

The main differences are added overdubbing and effects onboard, and the deletion of TC capability and HDMI triggering.

Price will be $1499, so $300 less than the 10T.  They will sell the software as a plugin for the MixPre-6 and -10T units for $99.

Here's a video overview with Paul Isaacs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEvI5Xz0gJE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEvI5Xz0gJE)

Gearslutz discussion thread:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/remote-possibilities-in-acoustic-music-and-location-recording/1205471-sound-devices-announces-mixpre-10m-quot-musicians-quot.html (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/remote-possibilities-in-acoustic-music-and-location-recording/1205471-sound-devices-announces-mixpre-10m-quot-musicians-quot.html)

I asked them on Twitter about what hardware differences exists between the 10T and 10M other than the removal of TC, and they just told me to compare the specs.  Obviously I had done that already.  Perhaps they would have been a bit more forthcoming via email.
https://twitter.com/sounddevices/status/971420075470225409 (https://twitter.com/sounddevices/status/971420075470225409)

The feature comparison page (https://www.sounddevices.com/products/recorders/mixpre-10t/feature-comparison) for the MixPre series shows that the 10M has more options for channel linking than the 10T. 
Comparing the specs pages also shows that the 10M will not record at the 47.952 kHz or 48.048 kHz sample rates the 10T is capable of.
The 10M writes Poly WAV, Mono WAV, or AAC depending on the project type, whereas 10T writes Poly BWAV only.
I don't see any other differences other than the aforementioned removal of TC and HDMI, and of course the different firmware.


My takeaway: If you don't need TC, now you can get what is otherwise the same unit as the 10T for $300 less, and that's the most attractive thing for us here.  I think the overdubbing is a nice addition for mobile multitracking, but I am always against "baking in" effects on a recording in case you change your mind later.


Side note: I purposely did not start a new thread for the 10M as I don't think it's different enough to warrant its own thread.  We have too many threads around here as it is.

EDIT: Well, it looks like a new thread was already started by sos.  Here you go:
https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=185639.0 (https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=185639.0)
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: IronFilm on March 07, 2018, 07:06:23 PM

The feature comparison page (https://www.sounddevices.com/products/recorders/mixpre-10t/feature-comparison) for the MixPre series shows that the 10M has more options for channel linking than the 10T. 
Comparing the specs pages also shows that the 10M will not record at the 47.952 kHz or 48.048 kHz sample rates the 10T is capable of.
The 10M writes Poly WAV, Mono WAV, or AAC depending on the project type, whereas 10T writes Poly BWAV only.
I don't see any other differences other than the aforementioned removal of TC and HDMI, and of course the different firmware.


My takeaway: If you don't need TC, now you can get what is otherwise the same unit as the 10T for $300 less, and that's the most attractive thing for us here.  I think the overdubbing is a nice addition for mobile multitracking, but I am always against "baking in" effects on a recording in case you change your mind later.


Side note: I purposely did not start a new thread for the 10M as I don't think it's different enough to warrant its own thread.  We have too many threads around here as it is.

If you're in the sound for picture market (which is Sound Devices' #1 target market by far and by far) then this new MixPre10M is totally pointless.  I've got no interest whatsoever in ever ever buying one of these.

So it really does mark them as stepping out to specifically target a completely different market than is normal for them.

Which can only be good news for MixPre users in general, if it expands their user base to help support more future development of the MixPre firmware updates.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: rigpimp on March 07, 2018, 07:51:55 PM
Which can only be good news for MixPre users in general, if it expands their user base to help support more future development of the MixPre firmware updates.

This final comment I think is key.  It is peculiar that SD is offering a $99 plugin pack via a firmware flash.  I imagine that this might queue up the idea of creating a very versatile box that has main features but allows the user to pay extra for additional features that meet their specific needs.  In a sense it becomes a personalized high-resolution recorder.   :coolguy:
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: voltronic on March 07, 2018, 07:59:29 PM

The feature comparison page (https://www.sounddevices.com/products/recorders/mixpre-10t/feature-comparison) for the MixPre series shows that the 10M has more options for channel linking than the 10T. 
Comparing the specs pages also shows that the 10M will not record at the 47.952 kHz or 48.048 kHz sample rates the 10T is capable of.
The 10M writes Poly WAV, Mono WAV, or AAC depending on the project type, whereas 10T writes Poly BWAV only.
I don't see any other differences other than the aforementioned removal of TC and HDMI, and of course the different firmware.


My takeaway: If you don't need TC, now you can get what is otherwise the same unit as the 10T for $300 less, and that's the most attractive thing for us here.  I think the overdubbing is a nice addition for mobile multitracking, but I am always against "baking in" effects on a recording in case you change your mind later.


Side note: I purposely did not start a new thread for the 10M as I don't think it's different enough to warrant its own thread.  We have too many threads around here as it is.

If you're in the sound for picture market (which is Sound Devices' #1 target market by far and by far) then this new MixPre10M is totally pointless.  I've got no interest whatsoever in ever ever buying one of these.

So it really does mark them as stepping out to specifically target a completely different market than is normal for them.

Which can only be good news for MixPre users in general, if it expands their user base to help support more future development of the MixPre firmware updates.

Right, this clearly isn't aimed at that (your) application.  Honestly I'm surprised they made this at all, since the whole new MixPre line in general seems aimed at "prosumer" with the 10T bridging the gap somewhat with the TC, hirose power, and high channel count.  The 10M seems to me like a way to move more units at a lower price (and yes, I'm considering the 10T and 10M as 90% the same "unit" from a R&D / tooling / manufacturing / ROI standpoint.) 

I mean, does the podcasting or singer / songwriter crowd really need a recorder with 8 preamps?  It would make more sense to me if they made an alternate version of the MixPre-3 or -6 that can record higher track counts with overdubbing and all of the other stuff they're putting into the 10M, since I can't imagine anyone they're marketing this new unit to using all of those inputs.

Regarding the firmware, if I were a 10T owner I'd be a bit miffed they are charging an additional $99 for this new firmware after already buying the most expensive unit of the new series.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: voltronic on March 07, 2018, 08:03:33 PM
Which can only be good news for MixPre users in general, if it expands their user base to help support more future development of the MixPre firmware updates.

This final comment I think is key.  It is peculiar that SD is offering a $99 plugin pack via a firmware flash.  I imagine that this might queue up the idea of creating a very versatile box that has main features but allows the user to pay extra for additional features that meet their specific needs.  In a sense it becomes a personalized high-resolution recorder.   :coolguy:

That's exactly what AETA did with the 4MinX.  It was an interesting way of doing things, but you may recall that the decision caused several people on this board to become apoplectic over a manufacturer purposely crippling a piece of hardware unless more money was paid to unlock all of the channels / features.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: IronFilm on March 07, 2018, 08:06:17 PM
Which can only be good news for MixPre users in general, if it expands their user base to help support more future development of the MixPre firmware updates.

This final comment I think is key.  It is peculiar that SD is offering a $99 plugin pack via a firmware flash.  I imagine that this might queue up the idea of creating a very versatile box that has main features but allows the user to pay extra for additional features that meet their specific needs.  In a sense it becomes a personalized high-resolution recorder.   :coolguy:

Is a pity SD is going down the paid firmware upgrade path. I don't think they've ever done this before?

But I suppose 80%+ of future MixPre10T owners won't care about these particular features, so not such a big deal perhaps
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: goodcooker on March 08, 2018, 02:45:21 PM
I mean, does the podcasting or singer / songwriter crowd really need a recorder with 8 preamps?  It would make more sense to me if they made an alternate version of the MixPre-3 or -6 that can record higher track counts with overdubbing and all of the other stuff they're putting into the 10M, since I can't imagine anyone they're marketing this new unit to using all of those inputs.


This thing is marketed towards musicians - not specifically singer/songwriters or podcasters.

I have used 16 inputs on a drum kit in the studio...

Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: pohaku on March 08, 2018, 06:41:29 PM
I mean, does the podcasting or singer / songwriter crowd really need a recorder with 8 preamps?  It would make more sense to me if they made an alternate version of the MixPre-3 or -6 that can record higher track counts with overdubbing and all of the other stuff they're putting into the 10M, since I can't imagine anyone they're marketing this new unit to using all of those inputs.


This thing is marketed towards musicians - not specifically singer/songwriters or podcasters.

I have used 16 inputs on a drum kit in the studio...




Agreed, if you have the Mics and the inclination, you can eat up the channels, both live and in the studio.  This sounds kind of like the ultimate portastudio.  It would be interesting to be able to add that feature set to my 788t.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: voltronic on March 08, 2018, 08:38:07 PM
I mean, does the podcasting or singer / songwriter crowd really need a recorder with 8 preamps?  It would make more sense to me if they made an alternate version of the MixPre-3 or -6 that can record higher track counts with overdubbing and all of the other stuff they're putting into the 10M, since I can't imagine anyone they're marketing this new unit to using all of those inputs.


This thing is marketed towards musicians - not specifically singer/songwriters or podcasters.

I have used 16 inputs on a drum kit in the studio...

I've seen lots of mics on a kit, but 16?!?!?  Were you recording Neil Peart?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: voltronic on March 08, 2018, 08:49:09 PM
I mean, does the podcasting or singer / songwriter crowd really need a recorder with 8 preamps?  It would make more sense to me if they made an alternate version of the MixPre-3 or -6 that can record higher track counts with overdubbing and all of the other stuff they're putting into the 10M, since I can't imagine anyone they're marketing this new unit to using all of those inputs.


This thing is marketed towards musicians - not specifically singer/songwriters or podcasters.

I have used 16 inputs on a drum kit in the studio...




Agreed, if you have the Mics and the inclination, you can eat up the channels, both live and in the studio.  This sounds kind of like the ultimate portastudio.  It would be interesting to be able to add that feature set to my 788t.

Sure, but I can't picture a 10M being used in an actual studio, unless the 10M is your studio.  You may be right about the porta-studio.  That kind of serious setup with larger track counts is exactly where I'd expect to see something more like the 788 or a JoeCo, but that's just what confuses me here.  I would think it would make more sense to simply update / expand the capabilities of the 10T rather than make an intermediate device with fewer features.  For example, linking two or more 10Ts in the same way you can do with the 788 would be a huge feature.

Clearly, Sound Devices' marketing department has good reason to think this is the way to go.  I'll be interested to see how the 10M sells vs the 10T.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: goodcooker on March 08, 2018, 09:18:27 PM
I mean, does the podcasting or singer / songwriter crowd really need a recorder with 8 preamps?  It would make more sense to me if they made an alternate version of the MixPre-3 or -6 that can record higher track counts with overdubbing and all of the other stuff they're putting into the 10M, since I can't imagine anyone they're marketing this new unit to using all of those inputs.


This thing is marketed towards musicians - not specifically singer/songwriters or podcasters.

I have used 16 inputs on a drum kit in the studio...

I've seen lots of mics on a kit, but 16?!?!?  Were you recording Neil Peart?

Not that unusual -
2 room mics
2 overheads
2 kick drum front and back
2 snare top and bottom
1 hi hat
5 toms - 3 on the rack and 2 on the floor
1 inside the kick
1 extra snare

I'll be honest - most good drum tracks are captured using a mix of maybe 5 of those mics but I've set up for this scenario even for scratch tracks.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: voltronic on March 08, 2018, 09:35:59 PM
I mean, does the podcasting or singer / songwriter crowd really need a recorder with 8 preamps?  It would make more sense to me if they made an alternate version of the MixPre-3 or -6 that can record higher track counts with overdubbing and all of the other stuff they're putting into the 10M, since I can't imagine anyone they're marketing this new unit to using all of those inputs.


This thing is marketed towards musicians - not specifically singer/songwriters or podcasters.

I have used 16 inputs on a drum kit in the studio...

I've seen lots of mics on a kit, but 16?!?!?  Were you recording Neil Peart?

Not that unusual -
2 room mics
2 overheads
2 kick drum front and back
2 snare top and bottom
1 hi hat
5 toms - 3 on the rack and 2 on the floor
1 inside the kick
1 extra snare

I'll be honest - most good drum tracks are captured using a mix of maybe 5 of those mics but I've set up for this scenario even for scratch tracks.

Whew!  Thanks for the breakdown.  I see how that's just giving you every possible mix option, I guess.

No cowbell mic? :laugh:
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: goodcooker on March 08, 2018, 10:39:12 PM
No cowbell mic? :laugh:

Naw - you just use the piano mic for that  :yack:

Sorry - back to the topic..
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: ArchivalAudio on March 09, 2018, 06:02:58 PM
Apologizes is this was posted... here is this:

Sound Devices MixPre-10M: First look

https://www.soundonsound.com/news/sound-devices-mixpre-10m-first-look (https://www.soundonsound.com/news/sound-devices-mixpre-10m-first-look)
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: mandodon on March 09, 2018, 10:29:43 PM
Interesting: According to the SOS article, the Musician's Plugin will give the MixPre-6 the capability to record 12 tracks.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: voltronic on March 11, 2018, 04:55:50 PM
Interesting: According to the SOS article, the Musician's Plugin will give the MixPre-6 the capability to record 12 tracks.

If you're talking about this paragraph, that would be really exciting if true, but I have to believe that it's not that simple.  Maybe the software upgrade will allow the MixPre-6 to do 12 tracks via overdubbing, but I doubt it will allow the same track count as the 10T/10M in terms of ISO and mix tracks.

Hopefully Paul is hanging around and can give us the full story.

Quote
For anyone who has recently invested in a MixPre-6 or 10T, you can stop banging your head on the wall right now! Sound Devices will be releasing a ‘Musician’s Plug-in’ upgrade for both of these models in late April which will add all of the MixPre-10M’s musician-oriented facilities — the 12-track recording and overdubbing capability, the metronome, the cue marks, and the reverb and air effects. The Musician’s Plug-in licence can be purchased directly from Sound Devices for around $99, allowing the user to unlock and activate these features very simply. Obviously, the MixPre-6 has fewer physical mix controls, so there’s a bit more fader-paging involved to control the twelve recording tracks in that model, but the rest of the functionality is exactly the same as the MixPre-10M — which is most impressive.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: Paul Isaacs on March 13, 2018, 02:27:41 AM
Yes - the plugin will allow the MP6 to record 12 tracks in overdub mode and 8 tracks (6 ISOS + MIX) in non-overdub mode.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: voltronic on March 13, 2018, 06:33:08 AM
Yes - the plugin will allow the MP6 to record 12 tracks in overdub mode and 8 tracks (6 ISOS + MIX) in non-overdub mode.

Thanks for that clarification, Paul.  Might I suggest you contact SoS to correct their somewhat misleading conclusion about what this plugin will do for the MixPre-6.

My dream feature upgrade for these recorders would be to have the ability to record doubled ISOs of all of the mic inputs plus safety track duplicates, sacrificing both the AUX 1/2 and MIX tracks to keep the total recording track count the same.

I understand that, for example, the MixPre-6 can source any of its 6 recording channels from any input, but I want the ability to do the same with the other two tracks now devoted to the MIX.  I'm not asking for the total recording track count to be increased; just some additional flexibility in deciding if I want the MIX or not, and what those other two tracks can be used for.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T
Post by: sos on April 12, 2018, 12:12:12 PM
Firmware v. 2.10 now out...

https://www.sounddevices.com/support/downloads/mixpres-firmware

Changes introduced in 2.10 include:

New

    Remix (-3, -6, -10T only). Ability to playback any existing file and create a new LR mix by adjusting its ISO tracks' fader levels and pans. Remix is enabled in the Record menu and is only available in Advanced Mode or Custom Mode with Gain set to Advanced. Remixing requires that the source file include at least one ISO track.
    Re-record LR (-3, -6, -10T only). Ability to record the LR mix during remixing. All metadata from the source file is transferred to the re-recorded 2-ch LR mix poly wav file. A re-recorded file's name is the same as the original source file name but prefixed with the characters 'R_'. Re-recording requires Remix to be enabled and the source file to have at least one ISO track.
    Cue Marks. Support for cue marks to allow jumping directly to points of interest within a wav file. Cue marks can be added during recording or playback and can be deleted, named and moved. Jump directly to a cue mark by selecting it from a file's Cue List and then pressing play. On the 10T, skip from cue to cue using FFWD and REW joystick. Cue marks are embedded in the wav file's metadata and can be read and displayed by compatible computer applications (e.g. Adobe Audition, Reaper.)
    Option to set the USB Audio interface to output only 2 channels in order to increase compatibility with applications that do not support multichannel USB audio. Go to Menu>System>USB Audio and select Stereo Out.
    Additional channel linking options (-6, -10T only). For the MixPre-10T, additional options include 1-3, 1-5, 1-6, 1-7, 1-8, 5-7 and for the MixPre-6, option 1-3 is added.
    Link Type menu (-6, -10T only) providing the ability to choose which parameters are linked when linking three or more channels. Selecting the 'All' option links input type, trim gains, faders, limiters, low cuts, record arms, and delays. Selecting the 'Faders Only' option only links the faders.

Changed

    Four button layout is now changed to six button layout in the Channel screens.
    Rendering start and stop points are now determined by the Play In and Stop cues if set. This is ideal for rendering out only a part of a project. (10M only)
    Cue markers are now embedded into rendered WAV files. (10M only)
    Mute now deactivates the input. Previously mute would only mute the input in the headphone monitor.
    Mute is now accessible via the Channel screen.
    10T factory default mode is now set to Advanced instead of Basic.
    Monitor button is now grayed out when Input is set to Off. (10M only)
    The track that is using 'Air' is now displayed in the greyed out button of other tracks. (10M only)

Fixed

    Headphone clip indicator was only being displayed when adjusting headphone level
    Some USB keyboard shortcuts were not working (10M only)
    Brief audio burst when soloing a channel (10M only)
    Enabling a track's input monitor would incorrectly enable other tracks' input monitors during record (10M only)
    Transport stability, media performance and UI navigation have been improved
    Timecode Menu and USB Drive Status Error Handling have been improved (10T only)
    Fast Forward and Rewind were not responsive in the Channel screens. (10T and 10M only)