Topic: Tips for Mic'ing a Bluegrass Band

[stevetoney]

So last night I caught a local bluegrass band and they had a helluva time with their sound.  I felt bad for them.  They were using a single LD mic using the one-mic-in-the-middle technique.  I'm not sure what the problem was actually, but they had virtually no volume going through the PA but then when the soundguy pushed what little volume they did have, they fed back HORRIBLE.  I realize that the issue is probably as much related to proximity of the stage mic to monitors and PA as it was the gear that the mic that they were using, but I can't help think that there was something inherently wrong or deficient with the gear they were using because their lack of volume made them un-hearable in even this small little venue where they played.

Since I got a recording of them (shitty one though since audience chatting is nearly as loud as the music) I promised to get back in touch with them to give them the recording.  I'd love to also give them a tip or two on how they might be able to get some improvement in their stage amplification, short of telling them they need to invest several thousand on mics for mic each instrument separately.

Any ideas?

[ArchivalAudio]

well if they were using the monitors
that was  or could have been a mistake, because to get the gain on the mic up enough the monnitors would feed back
usually they woul dneed to have the bass miced sperately, or use the dreadded Di (which would not sound acoustic ata all)

if they were cool with taping
run onstage just behind their mic, in an ORTF , DINa, or try blumlein for some sweet round the mic bligrass sound
the Busman stereo ribbon (dynamic) sound sweet for this - we used it ( well the Peacock Radio crew did) at the Pickathon
 see
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=75667


check out the PIC's

No need for tons of gear:  one mic + a bass mic is great, no or very little monitors, they should hear the mains a bit, and will need to do the grand ole opry dance, moving in for solos

some other bands also use two LD mics one High at like mouth level or just below, and one lower at like pickin' level mid torso height, then a mic on the bass- which could even be  as simple as a SM 57  tucked through a hole in a tennis ball with the cap pointing at the bridge from below the bridge- really - I've seen it a number  of times and it actually works - however a better mic on the bridge would sound better... D'uh!



I am sure others have ideas too...

-- Ian

[raymonda]

Bluegrass bands think this is the purest way to do sound, since that is how Bill Monroe did it. IMO, it often fails miserably. It is a typical example of form following function. When I'm requested to mic a BG like this, I do so but I tell them that their monitors will be low. I also throw up a few spot mics and an ORTF pair on top of the LD to get a decent recording. This has saved a number of recording sessions.

[runonce]

Ha - next time - check to see if the LD mic is FACING THE RIGHT DIRECTION!

So easy to set them up backwards! (facing the monitors and crowd)

As for recording. I like a M/S setup right in the middle. If the band is good at playing to the single mic setup, the MS will serve you well.

[runonce]

Bluegrass bands think this is the purest way to do sound, since that is how Bill Monroe did it. IMO, it often fails miserably. It is a typical example of form following function. When I'm requested to mic a BG like this, I do so but I tell them that their monitors will be low. I also throw up a few spot mics and an ORTF pair on top of the LD to get a decent recording. This has saved a number of recording sessions.

I think the operating theory is the fewer open mics the more gain you get before feedback...?

But - I wouldnt expect it to work well in every situation for sure. Like outside...no go. I prefer to use single micing in a loud/ringy room. The band has to practice playing to the mic as well...that takes some time.

And if there are more than 4 members...forget it.

Another problem I've had is the varying height of the players. I work for one band where the bass player is like 6 foot, 5 - and sings. So - for them, I've run two mics on the same vertical axis. The lower one gets more of the instruments, the upper gets the more voice.

[boojum]

My own take, and experience, is that M/S or ORTF are good.  M/S has more precise location and ORTF has a sweeter sound.  If I could I would do the ORTF with a spot on each instrument, too.  I have been severely criticized for this approach because "it is not the way we do it down here" which is total BS as far as I am concerned.  I considered the source and ignored it.  It is 2009, we don't have to do things the way they were done 50 years ago unless we want the results of 50 years ago.

As usual, YMMV.   

Cheers     

[stevetoney]

Thanks so far for the good feedback everyone. 

[raymonda]

"I think the operating theory is the fewer open mics the more gain you get before feedback...?"

Actually, that is inaccurate. The fewer mics, and in this case 1 mic, the more apt you are to get feedback because you have to crank up the gain in order to get a decent signal since most of the artists are a bit further off the mic than they would be if they had their own dedicated mic.

[Patrick]

Tell the band to smack the house engineers around and demand that they use EQ to cut frequencies that are ringing in the system.  You could mess with your gain structure, monitor volume, mic placement all night long, but if there is a resonance frequency seeping into your signal chain, it will most likely feedback in any situation.

This is really a fundamental skill to being a FOH engineer.  Not sure if the band is doing anything wrong. 

[runonce]

"I think the operating theory is the fewer open mics the more gain you get before feedback...?"

Actually, that is inaccurate. The fewer mics, and in this case 1 mic, the more apt you are to get feedback because you have to crank up the gain in order to get a decent signal since most of the artists are a bit further off the mic than they would be if they had their own dedicated mic.

The point is - you can crank that one mic up more than you could if you had 2.

The Hillbilly Gypsies are about the best I've seen at playing to the single mic. The have "the dance" down pretty good. If the band cant do that...(which seems an art unto itself) Then single micing is probably not the best choice.

Some intruments arent well served by single-mic either. Dobro is one that takes up a lot of space, and projects sound more toward the player than the mic.

Banjo is always loud enough...no matter how you mic it...