Topic: Schoeps MK22?

[blg]

I've been getting the itch to maybe try something different than the MK41s I own and have been reading up a little on MK22s, as well as checking for samples on LMA.  Haven't seen too many people using them so was curious about opinions.  I guess the other question is how "sturdy" they might be since they don't have the grill over the top.  I was thinking they might be a good option in places where I was up close.

[acidjack]

I ran them. Mine were mint when I sold them, but I heard from other users here (and visually, it seemed obvious) that they were easier to damage if you, say, stealthed them.

I'd say the best couple recordings I made with them were among my very, very best recordings. I like the sound better than the MK21 -- less fat, tighter but still open and big. But in many cases I was less or no more pleased with them than what I had, so I sold them. I bet they'd be really cool as an M in an M-S setup, or onstage, but again, I'd question how much better they are than MK4s or other Schoeps cardiods. (I believe there is an exhaustive comp somewhere on TS)

Personally, knowing the kind of taping you do, I think you'd be better served by MK4Vs or MK5s and their nice HF bump. The 4Vs in particular which feel a bit "warmer" like the MK22.

[F.O.Bean]

My taping bro tonedeaf ran them awhile back and I loved those tapes. I was also worried about the front since it has no grills! I have heard Bennett's Schwartz wsp recordings of mk22>788 and they are badass. Truly amazing IMO! I would say if you like the sound of the mk21s and the mk4s, then I'd consider the mk22s. You can keep your mk41s and have an all around cap with the mk22s

[DSatz]

The front of an MK 22 has a screen which is finger-proof unless you have very tiny, very jabby fingers made of a hard substance. What you see within the metal ring is not the diaphragm, which is safely tucked away inside the capsule. This type of capsule (or the MK 2 H, which has a similar ring arrangement) should be no more fragile in normal use than other types. However, I don't do stealth (with Schoeps mikes, anyway), so I'm not sure what special hazards may be involved there.

I record mostly classical music so YMMV, but these have been my favorite capsules since they were in beta test. Schoeps makes a variant of the STC stereo bar called the "STC 22" which gives an ORTF-like arrangement, and I typically use these with a pair of Colette cables and that stereo bar.

--best regards

[noahbickart]

I've had great success with the mk22 as a mid in a M/S array.

[F.O.Bean]

The front of an MK 22 has a screen which is finger-proof unless you have very tiny, very jabby fingers made of a hard substance. What you see within the metal ring is not the diaphragm, which is safely tucked away inside the capsule. This type of capsule (or the MK 2 H, which has a similar ring arrangement) should be no more fragile in normal use than other types. However, I don't do stealth (with Schoeps mikes, anyway), so I'm not sure what special hazards may be involved there.

I record mostly classical music so YMMV, but these have been my favorite capsules since they were in beta test. Schoeps makes a variant of the STC stereo bar called the "STC 22" which gives an ORTF-like arrangement, and I typically use these with a pair of Colette cables and that stereo bar.

--best regards

Dsatz, yes Im familiar of the STC22 as well. I have one myself for when I ran mk21s onstage or very close. Im not exactly sure of the length of the STC22, but I have an ORTF bar with a spacing of 27cm. I think thats the same as the STC22, is it not? Its been a month or so since I was on the Schoeps website!

[stevetoney]

The front of an MK 22 has a screen which is finger-proof unless you have very tiny, very jabby fingers made of a hard substance. What you see within the metal ring is not the diaphragm, which is safely tucked away inside the capsule. This type of capsule (or the MK 2 H, which has a similar ring arrangement) should be no more fragile in normal use than other types. However, I don't do stealth (with Schoeps mikes, anyway), so I'm not sure what special hazards may be involved there.

I record mostly classical music so YMMV, but these have been my favorite capsules since they were in beta test. Schoeps makes a variant of the STC stereo bar called the "STC 22" which gives an ORTF-like arrangement, and I typically use these with a pair of Colette cables and that stereo bar.

--best regards

Speaking from personal experience, I've been wanting to give Schoeps some feedback that I'm disappointed with the design of the mk22.  Functionally, the screen/grill does its job of protecting the insides.  However, that screen is very VERY easy to dent, and in fact one trip into my gear bag resulted in a dented screen.  Now, it could be debated if a dent is the same as damage, but the fact is they were cosmetically degraded after a single trip to my gear bag and the dent ended up degrading the value of my capsules significantly on the used market.  I don't really feel this was due to mistreatment...unless storing caspules on body is considered mistreatment.  In this case, I left my 22s on the bodies one time after a show and the damage was done.  To be clear, the dent resulted from incidental contact of something in my bag with the end of one my mk22 capsule...not due to me throwing the mics around into and out of my bag or abusing them.  Personally, I'd consider this normal field use.

One the one hand, I was mad at myself for not being meticulous about restoring the capsules to their vials after use.  After getting them new, I knew from looking that the screens were delicate, so after I saw that the capsule got dented, I was mad at myself for not doing what I knew needed to be done to protect them EVERY time...just forgot once.  On the other, after giving it some thought, I was a bit peeved at Schoeps for putting out such a flimsy design that, due to what I consider 'normal' handling, my gear ended up devalued.  I've come to expect more from them. 

So, yes I agree with you DSatz that the screen is finger proof, but otherwise it's just not field worthy...at least not to the point where you're not taking a risk of damage if you do take them out and suject them to the rigors of location recording. 

In my case, I ended up selling my pair for $900 less than two years after I bought them for I think $1650.  I feel the poor design alone ended up costing me about $300 on the used market. 

Ever since, I've recommended to anyone that asks, if they want gear that retains value, to avoid the MK22 until the design is changed to have better resitance to day-to-day bumps that result from field use.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

"unless storing caspules on body is considered mistreatment."

I frequently leave capsules on the body, and try not to remove them unnecessarily.  I think storing capsules or bodies, outside of a proper case, loose in a bag, is very high risk and could be considered mistreatment.

I use a pelican case. There is just too much risk of dust, shocks, and general knocking around.

[stevetoney]

"unless storing caspules on body is considered mistreatment."

I frequently leave capsules on the body, and try not to remove them unnecessarily.  I think storing capsules or bodies, outside of a proper case, loose in a bag, is very high risk and could be considered mistreatment.

I use a pelican case. There is just too much risk of dust, shocks, and general knocking around.

Yeah, I hear that. 

Let's not take my situation then.  Let's take a hypothetical.  Let's say I'm changing capsules and I'm sitting down and I've got something sitting on my lap.  We've all mishandled capsules before...the capsule drops out of my hand into my lap but the end of the mk22 happens to fall directly onto a corner or edge of whatever is sitting on my lap.  I'm almost sure that screen would dent even from a 1 or 2 foot fall.  Is that mistreatment?

Honestly, I wasn't trying to whine about my own situation (I sold the capsules a couple years ago anyway, so water under the bridge for me) as much as just elevate the concern that this capsule could/should have a more rubust protection on the end to better protect the value of the capsule and to protect it cosmetically for a 20 or 30 years long life.

If a person plans to buy and keep their mk22 forever, then resale isn't a concern.  If they think they might resell and they aren't meticulous about caring for their gear, I'm gonna suggest that they consider the screen issue in their buy decision.

My thoughts anyways.

[DSatz]

Storing the capsules on the microphone amplifiers (bodies) certainly isn't mistreatment. But did you really let your microphones rattle around inside a gig bag without being in a protective case of some kind? I hope not--but from what you wrote, it kind of sounds like it.

That's really not advisable at all, whether the capsules are constructed like the MK 22 or not; dust needs to be kept out of capsules, if for no other reason.

--best regards

[stevetoney]

^ Agreed and understood.  It was an expensive lesson learned and a mistake that I hope others don't make. 

My main point was that I was just pointing out the sensitivity of the screen on the 22 so others could learn from my experience. 

[0vu]

....I have an ORTF bar with a spacing of 27cm. I think thats the same as the STC22, is it not? Its been a month or so since I was on the Schoeps website!

I have an STC22 here and it appears that the spacing is 210mm rather than the 170mm of the 'normal' STC4 ORTF bar.

I've found that the Schoeps UMS20 stereo bar also works fine for 210mm spacing if you set it to the normal ORTF click stops then slide the mic holders apart.

[0vu]

My main point was that I was just pointing out the sensitivity of the screen on the 22 so others could learn from my experience.

I've had several MK22s (and MK/CCM2Hs) for a while now and they seem fine so long as you don't abuse them. That said, they're always kept in their boxes or plastic tubes when not in use and I generally avoid dropping them or attacking them with hard proddy things. I've usually got some capsules stored on bodies but again, they're kept in boxes and so far all are undamaged.

Actually, compared to a KM83/4/5 or 183/4/5 or KM100 series capsules the 'exposed' mesh area on the MK22/2H is a lot smaller then the mesh area on the front of the Neumann  capsules.

[stevetoney]

Actually, compared to a KM83/4/5 or 183/4/5 or KM100 series capsules the 'exposed' mesh area on the MK22/2H is a lot smaller then the mesh area on the front of the Neumann  capsules.

IMHO, I don't think the propensity to denting is a function of how much area is exposed.  It's a function of how robust the mesh of the screen is.  Most mic grills have fairly heavy gauge metal mesh screens so that it would take a pretty substantial impact for denting.  That's not the case for the MK22 capsule again based on my experience and IMHO.

[F.O.Bean]

....I have an ORTF bar with a spacing of 27cm. I think thats the same as the STC22, is it not? Its been a month or so since I was on the Schoeps website!

I have an STC22 here and it appears that the spacing is 210mm rather than the 170mm of the 'normal' STC4 ORTF bar.

I've found that the Schoeps UMS20 stereo bar also works fine for 210mm spacing if you set it to the normal ORTF click stops then slide the mic holders apart.

Yeah, thats my bad. I "thought" that the STC22 was the same spacing as my WideORTF NOLABar that is 27cm/110*. I just checked on the Schoeps website, and it says the STC22 is in fact, 170mm, just like you said. I dont know why I always thought the STC22 was the exact same as my WideORTF NolaBar?

[DSatz]

No, the 17 cm spacing would be the original STC (for cardioid capsules; it is sometimes called the "STC 4" now that there are other versions). 17 cm is also the spacing for the MSTC twin microphone, which was developed some years later, because that is the correct spacing for ORTF stereo recording.

The STC 22 uses 21 cm, while the special version (not listed in the catalog) for wide cardioids uses 25 cm.

--best regards

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I have a couple of 20cm/110 degree bars I made for a customer due a miscommunication, if anyone is looking.