Topic: bassy recordings

[nadnerbttel]

Hey, for some reason I am prone to always getting much more bass in my live recordings than I want, and usually ending up turning it down up to 30dB on the equalizer when I edit the songs.  I use a Sony RH10 recorder, a SP battery box and SP-CMC8 omni mics run through the line-in.  My question is: does it make a difference in the final product whether you use the bass-roll off as you are recording or if you just turn down the bass with an EQ after the recording?  Also, does anyone have any suggestions as to why the recordings are so bassy to begin with?  Thanks!

[Scooter]

if you run the rolloff while you're recording, you're stuck with the results.  whereas if you do the rolloff in post, you can adjust to your liking.  I never run the rolloff, and do all my eq in post, but to each his own...

[RebelRebel]

I prefer to do the roll off in the signal path rather than in post. Any processing you do in the DAW is going to take something away from the source material.. Try to get it as good as it can get before it hits the recorder, the less processing the better.

Omnis will have more low end(generally) than other polar patterns, and boomy rock clubs dont help that. Get intimate with your gear and know what roll off works for you.

[easy jim]

I prefer to do the roll off in the signal path rather than in post. Any processing you do in the DAW is going to take something away from the source material.. Try to get it as good as it can get before it hits the recorder, the less processing the better.

Omnis will have more low end(generally) than other polar patterns, and boomy rock clubs dont help that. Get intimate with your gear and know what roll off works for you.

Exactly.  Omnis do not generally sound good in small clubs.  Cardioids would be better.  I have the Sound Prof's mics with the cardioid and hyper-cardioid capsules.  I have never found either type of these caps to be too bassy and never use the roll off with them; in fact, they tend to be very bright sounding and can capture really nicely what sounds like rumbly, bassy crap at the show.  If the omnis are all you have, however, I would roll off and try and get it right the initially as Teddy wrote.  Depending on the sound of the venue/mics/room mix, you may want to roll off anywhere between ~ 60 - 105hz.  ~80hz is a good initial setting to try.

[Church-Audio]

I prefer to do the roll off in the signal path rather than in post. Any processing you do in the DAW is going to take something away from the source material.. Try to get it as good as it can get before it hits the recorder, the less processing the better.

Omnis will have more low end(generally) than other polar patterns, and boomy rock clubs dont help that. Get intimate with your gear and know what roll off works for you.

Exactly I would rather roll off a bit before post. If you took too much out you can always add it back in during post. But if you have too much bass and it is distorting. No amount of post will fix that, it's better to be safe with your levels and reduce bass, then it is to have too much bass and a distorted recording that can not be fixed IMO.


Ps remember that if you use a bass roll off during the recording, all of the bass is still there on tape it’s just reduced in level. Some simple eq can put it all back, if it turns out to be a mistake. Just use a good parametric eq plug-in or graphic eq if you do not have a parametric eq, and you will be fine.

The reason why Omni is not a good choice for boomy rooms is simple Bass is non directional, just like your Omni mic. So the Omni mics tend to pickup more bass, because they are not dependant on position to do so. Cardioid mics are more directional if you get into a null in a room, IE: A place where there is some standing waves (less bass) then your cardioid mic will sound bright, but not the Omni it will be bassy where ever you use it. In a small room where bass bounces everywhere it can be a real problem.




Chris Church

[nadnerbttel]

Thanks for all the tips.  When recording outside at Bonnaroo next weekend will I have the same problem with omnis, or is this problem limited to indoor venues?

[Chuck]

Omni's can sound very good outdoors. They tend to be less suseptable to wind and capture more bass, which is a good thing outdoors.

[nadnerbttel]

What would be the best cardioids to get for the CMC8 when most of the recordings I do are in medium sized clubs (subcards, cards, or hypercards)?  Also, do I need the adapter from sound professionals to attach a set of cardioids?  Thanks!

[Church-Audio]

Regular cardioids are the best for all around use. I don't mean to fluff my own gear but I do have a 20% off sale for my cardioid mics right now to all T.S members they sell for $129.99 a pair after the discount they are $104.00 + shipping.( for $129.99) You can not find a better sounding cardioid mic IMO.  Please check out Sound professional mics as well they also sell great mics PM me if you want me to send you a sound sample of our mics in use. Please provide me with an email address to send the file. aprox 3 meg.


Chris Church

What would be the best cardioids to get for the CMC8 when most of the recordings I do are in medium sized clubs (subcards, cards, or hypercards)?  Also, do I need the adapter from sound professionals to attach a set of cardioids?  Thanks!

[rokpunk]

I don't mean to fluff my own gear but <snip>
You can not find a better sounding cardioid mic IMO. 

For someone not trying to "fluff your own gear", that's a pretty bold statement. I'd imagine if there is no better sounding cardioid mic on the market, you sure could make a ton of dough selling the patent to Neumann.

/IMO

[easy jim]

I don't mean to fluff my own gear but <snip>
You can not find a better sounding cardioid mic IMO. 

For someone not trying to "fluff your own gear", that's a pretty bold statement. I'd imagine if there is no better sounding cardioid mic on the market, you sure could make a ton of dough selling the patent to Neumann.

/IMO

I'm sure he means by comparison to others at the price point in question. 

We should expect anyone who makes/sells their own gear to be naturally inclined to fluff it a bit.  However, I'd say the statement calls for the posting of comparsion samples with similar mics at the same rough price point (i.e. the Audio Technica mics used by the Sound Prof's, or Core Sounds Cardioid mics, etc.)  Then, we can all make up our own mind. 

[Humbug]

What would be the best cardioids to get for the CMC8 when most of the recordings I do are in medium sized clubs (subcards, cards, or hypercards)?  Also, do I need the adapter from sound professionals to attach a set of cardioids?  Thanks!

Originally these were sold as follows:

ES943 body + adaptor + AT853 caps (large)

The latest models are:

ES943 body + AT943 caps (small, no adaptor)

So its up to you - you can buy AT943 card caps, or an adaptor + AT853 caps

I've used both, sound is similar, but my personal choice is AT853 caps, I think they sound nicer.
Really depends on availability of capsules. I use Card capsules 95% of the time, and Hypers for the larger venues / arenas / outdoor stadiums.

I think I got that right, and I hope the above was clear, if not, pm me.

Now it gets tricky - AT853 (and probably the smaller AT943) mics overload at very high volumes - your typical club rock gig. This is why people phantom power these mics, or use a 3-wire battery box. Chris Church could build you one of these.

ps Chris..you went from occasional visits to fluffing your gear constantly - we've got the mesage now

pps has anyone done a direct shoot out between Chris's cardioids and AT853s (ie running them in parallel)? If so, I'd like to know the results. I did offer to do this a few months ago..

[Church-Audio]

Read what I said for $129.99 there is no better mic on the market I will gladly send you a sample. I am not talking about $200 mics or $1000 mics just mics that cost $129.99 Sorry for the confusion.

Chris Church

I don't mean to fluff my own gear but <snip>
You can not find a better sounding cardioid mic IMO. 

For someone not trying to "fluff your own gear", that's a pretty bold statement. I'd imagine if there is no better sounding cardioid mic on the market, you sure could make a ton of dough selling the patent to Neumann.

/IMO

[Church-Audio]

Not a problem please tell me where to send the sample. I have one that has not been changed at all no eq no compression. I would be more then glad to send the sample to anyone that asks for it.

Chris Church

I don't mean to fluff my own gear but <snip>
You can not find a better sounding cardioid mic IMO. 

For someone not trying to "fluff your own gear", that's a pretty bold statement. I'd imagine if there is no better sounding cardioid mic on the market, you sure could make a ton of dough selling the patent to Neumann.

/IMO

I'm sure he means by comparison to others at the price point in question. 

We should expect anyone who makes/sells their own gear to be naturally inclined to fluff it a bit.  However, I'd say the statement calls for the posting of comparsion samples with similar mics at the same rough price point (i.e. the Audio Technica mics used by the Sound Prof's, or Core Sounds Cardioid mics, etc.)  Then, we can all make up our own mind. 

[Church-Audio]

Come on I do not fluff my gear all the time. That is not a fair statement look at most post history, there is very few cases of fluffing. I am proud of my mics, I guess I just want people to try them, but I do give out way more advice and help then I try to sell my products. It’s hard finding a balance. I guess I just could not resist I know, I will take some flac for it.

As you can see with my tickets I am negative now I am really more interested in helping then selling. I have all the sales I can handle right now. I love you guys, I love talking about audio gear and trying to help people when I can, that’s where I am at. I used to come on here and constantly try to sell my gear, now I don't do that. I made a post in the eBay sales a few days ago about a sale I was having but, that's the place to do it and I can not be faulted for giving T.S members 20% off.

I really am glad to be here, and I don't really want to upset people. I am very opinionated and love a good debate. Not because I think I am right but because I like the challenge of debating my point with someone, it’s about passion for audio with me it’s never personal.

What would be the best cardioids to get for the CMC8 when most of the recordings I do are in medium sized clubs (subcards, cards, or hypercards)?  Also, do I need the adapter from sound professionals to attach a set of cardioids?  Thanks!

Originally these were sold as follows:

ES943 body + adaptor + AT853 caps (large)

The latest models are:

ES943 body + AT943 caps (small, no adaptor)

So its up to you - you can buy AT943 card caps, or an adaptor + AT853 caps

I've used both, sound is similar, but my personal choice is AT853 caps, I think they sound nicer.
Really depends on availability of capsules. I use Card capsules 95% of the time, and Hypers for the larger venues / arenas / outdoor stadiums.

I think I got that right, and I hope the above was clear, if not, pm me.

Now it gets tricky - AT853 (and probably the smaller AT943) mics overload at very high volumes - your typical club rock gig. This is why people phantom power these mics, or use a 3-wire battery box. Chris Church could build you one of these.

ps Chris..you went from occasional visits to fluffing your gear constantly - we've got the mesage now

pps has anyone done a direct shoot out between Chris's cardioids and AT853s (ie running them in parallel)? If so, I'd like to know the results. I did offer to do this a few months ago..