Topic: KM14x vs. KM18x

[BWolf]

So how different are the caps?  Can the caps for the 140 series be used with the 180 and vice versa?  Is there a way to mod them so that the caps can be used?  What about a mod just to the active cable so that the 180 cap could be used?  Just wondering....

[Ed.]

the caps on the km18x's can't be switched.  I didn't even think they were removeable, but someone told me they removed it to clean it once.  I never tried to remove mine though.  But they are fixed caps.  the km100 series has the switchable caps.

i dunno about modding them though.

[BWolf]

aahh.  i was always under the impression that the 180 series had removable caps. 

i see said the blind man....

[audBall]

aahh.  i was always under the impression that the 180 series had removable caps. 

i see said the blind man....

are you thinking of the older km8x?

[BWolf]

maybe.  i just thought that the 18x you could take the caps off and interchange them.  i didn't know they were fixed. 

so the old km8x you could interchange caps?  did those use the same caps as the 140 series?

[audBall]

so the old km8x you could interchange caps?  did those use the same caps as the 140 series?

I'm pretty sure the km8x's had interchangeable caps like the km14x's, but that's all I know.  Someone else will need to chime in about the cap's similarities/differences.

[grider]

exactly same cap per Neumann, there was a thread a while back which included an email response from someone at Neumann wondering why this topic continues to be debated and putting the issue to rest once and for all

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

aahh.  i was always under the impression that the 180 series had removable caps. 

i see said the blind man....

The 180 series caps are removable.  They just aren't intended to be field swappable like the AKs.  They have an entirely different mating connector than the AK series caps.  Its been about 5 years since I had 184s, but if I recall correctly the connection between the 184 capsule and body was just a signal pin and ground via the threads.  The AKxx caps have a three conductor mating which I assume provides for a balanced connection through the actives.  The active cable lemo connectors have three pins.  There is no way to modify the AK caps and 180 series caps to mate with the other bodies.

I can believe that the internals diaphram of the two series caps are the same.  I think there is a difference in the electronics in the caps and in the mic body.  The capsules have a different number of conductors and the exploded drawings of the two seem to show a different board layout in each body.  To me the two mics sounds really close but the KM100s are a little more silky than the 184s.

[TNJazz]

And just to be perfectly clear, the KM84 series caps are not usable with either the KM140 or the KM184 series.

I read a post on a pro audio board a couple of years ago from a guy who removed his KM184 capsule and then couldn't get it back together.  I believe Neumann recommends NOT disassembling the cap and body.  To do so undoubtedly would void any warranty you might have.

Dirk

[tscales]

Whats the price comparison between the km140s/km150s versus the km184/km185?  Seems like the sound difference between them is pretty slight, and I do like the swappable-ness of the km40/km50.

What would you buy if you were getting into Neumanns?

+T  (great thread)

[jeromejello]

What would you buy if you were getting into Neumanns?

skm-100-ms stereo set + an extra ak40

[kennedy]

What would you buy if you were getting into Neumanns?

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=63417.0


 

[tscales]

Riiight - I've been watching that - why are km184s goin for 800 and km100s plus ak40s goin for 1350?

Just curious what you think the large differnce in "value" is?  Interchangable caps or just sound?

[Brian Skalinder]

Riiight - I've been watching that - why are km184s goin for 800 and km100s plus ak40s goin for 1350?

Just curious what you think the large differnce in "value" is?  Interchangable caps or just sound?

At least on the thread referenced, the $1350 gets you the option for interchangeable caps and, more importantly to many, the LC3 active cables.

[tscales]

ahhh - good point.  I don't need those so lets subtract - uhh 350 for the actives? 

bottom line - how do the two mics setups compare dollar-wise and sound wise (km184s or km100 plus ak40s) - they'll be headed in a Uua-5 wmod+

I know this has been discussed and debated, but I'm battling the decision in my head (new job and I deserve a treat!!)

[kennedy]

bottom line - how do the two mics setups compare dollar-wise and sound wise (km184s or km100 plus ak40s) - they'll be headed in a Uua-5 wmod+

the extra money is for the active cables and the inter-changable cap option, as far as sound, ive been told the 184 and the 140 sound exactly the same but i havent compared the two.
if you dont plan to stealth or care much about low profile rigs or dont want the option to switch caps in the future, i would go with 184 but if that stuff appeals to you get the 140s
 




edit: sp.

[tscales]

Thank you - thats what I thought, I just wanted a second opinion.

unless, of course, you low ball me.

+T

[Nick's Picks]

ok..my $.02
the 184 is barely larger than the ak40/lc3 connector.  Maybe by 1.5".  If low profile is your gig, then there is no reason why some right angle XLRs and 184's cant fit the bill.

the 140's sure are nice though, and that killer STH100 stereo bar really kicks ass. 
If you're a section taper and like the neumann sound, then the 140s are an expensive option for a slightly better sounding high end.

[Teen Wolf Blitzer]

I love the 140's!  A buddy of mine (Jim Cowen) taped Phish through most of the 90's FOB with these and I'm hard pressed to find a better source.  Love them 140's!  Not so much the 184's though.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

What would you buy if you were getting into Neumanns?

If you have an issue with the money, then you will be very happy with the 184s.  There is a thread in RigPics that shows how to put together a low profile mount using the stock clips and a schoeps shock mount with RA connectors.  It's a beautiful piece of work.  You can run that on an FOB stand and be very low profile.  I ran 184s for about 5 years and loved them.

If money isn't an issue, I agree that the SKM100 set is the best option.  You might not think that you need the actives, but if you are into ease of setup and reduced size, there is nothing better.  you can have the actives on their mount in your bag and clamp onto someones stand in 5 seconds.   Also, you can run from the hat when you need to.  If you get into the habit of running up front, the ability to swap to the AK43s is worth the investment.  The slightly smoother sound of the 140s that may be to your liking.  It's subtle with some gear and more obvious with others. 

Just get the 140s.  You won't look back. 

[tscales]

Yeah - I think i may get km184s to get started with neumanns, but I bet I'll wish I had gone with interchanable caps in a few years.

So, I guess my question is...  What's the average cost of a km140 setup (without actives for now) ?   ..not that they pop up on the yard sale all that often, it seems.

Jeffs already got a bunch of interest in his, but the whole kit is a little pricey for me now.

tim

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

the average cost changes as the market changes.  Some of that has to do with the value of the dollar in europe where new sets are sourced.   The pre-owned sets increase when there are price hikes on the new set.   If you have the cash and the patience, you can get a set for $1300 or a little less.  The days of the $1200 skm140, if those days ever existed, are gone.  If you have the cash, you should get that set for $1350.   You'll be getting gear from within the community, so you can be assured that it's been cared for.   That price includes the kwon bar, which is like $100 iirc, so now you're talking less than 1300 for the set.  Thats a damn good price.   I would buy that kwon DIN bar if you want the set for less than $1350.

Really, it's the right thing to do.  You will have a set of mics that you won't outgrow for a very long time and you have options to try other configs like MS and subs.

[cmoorevt]

It may be worth calling full compass to see their prices.  BWolf and pilgrims622 just picked up some ak20 caps for $333 a piece from full compass clearance.


http://fullcompass.com/specials/categories/AU0001/index.html

[shaggy]

the 184 is barely larger than the ak40/lc3 connector.  Maybe by 1.5".  If low profile is your gig, then there is no reason why some right angle XLRs and 184's cant fit the bill.

I dunno, the KM100 and AK 40s screwed together are smaller than the KM184s lengthwise by about an inch....the AK40 and LC3KA is about 2.5 inches total (including the stiff rubber collar).  Maybe we need to photograph this stuff side by side. 

Despite Neumann claiming that the capsules are the same the sound to me is diffferent....maybe because the mic bodies are not the same.  The KM100 is based on an older design and is apparaently more noisy.  To me the KM140 are richer in the mid-bass to low-bass than the KM184s but YMMV.

[tscales]

I agree the two sound different, but both very nice and not that far apart according to my ears, and variation in venue is gonna cause wider swings in sound, I'm thinking (am I wrong), so I'm open to both options in the YS right now.  I don't think I'm ready to commit to the km100 series, but I've been doing alot of listening and comparing on a pretty-very decent playback system - bottom line for me, both sound fantastic and I still like my 393s. (so why would I up grade, well, outdoor fest and good venue would make some neumanns siiiing)

...man I am crazy for considering this - but i SO want to - my girlfriend thinks I still patch in, and thats "somebodies elses" mics stand, that my D8 is plugged into.  (ignorance is bliss)  But i know they will be in good shapre from anyone on board here - +Ts all round for the feeback - THE best resource on the web.

(money is an issue, i guess, but not for long)

[cdevs]

I respectfully disagree with the assertion that KM184s are somewhow nearly as stealthable than KM140s. You can wear 140s in a cap, which allows you to tape anything and everything. Can't do that with 184s. I agree that the slightly better sound of the 140s might not be worth the extra $5-600, but combine that with the actives and it's a no-brainer, if you have any interest in stealthing at all (and have the jack). Personally, I can count on one hand the BTAT that I'm at all interested in taping...the list of "bands that do not officially allow taping" whom I'd like to tape is much, much longer. YMMV.

I'm also not on board with the interchangable capsules as a selling point. I don't care for the 150s and also doubt I'd ever bother adding omnis or the figure 8. This is in contrast to the MG200 series, where I think both the card and hyper are awesome. But no MG actives, unless your name is Raoul. 

So get the 140s -- you shant regret it.

[spearheadtaper]

get the 140's you won't look back.....

I love every tape I have made with the some far

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

I'm also not on board with the interchangable capsules as a selling point.

If you dig taping up front, you really should try the AK43s.  The AK40s are a good all round capsule but up front the AK43s are insane.