Topic: Stealthing very loud metal shows...extended from Team EVIL

[Evil Taper]

DPA 4061 vs SP-CMC-8

&

FOB vs Close to stacks

[Evil Taper]

Ok I preffer to stand FOB at any concert I go to whether I am running mics or not.  I see alot of recomendations for cardiods in that area of a venue but I also see alot of people who love the sound from their omnis.  The discussion seems to be about how finicky the omnis can be as relating to venue location.  I run some cheap omnis right now, Giant Squids, and they do pull a fucking muddy tape FOB.  However, with some eq work using Soundforge 6.0 (a custom 3 stage graphical eq system that I've developed) the sound thought lost is pulled from the bog and the bass is corrected.  So what I'm getting at is that with proper post production work the omnis can result in a nice full spectrum recording FOB.  So for someone like myself who wants to actually watch a show instead of getting pounded like a dough patty........would I benefit from cards or should I stick with omnis?

[Evil Taper]

Possibly other tapers aren't into mastering their recordings properly?  I don't see why people are so anal about doing post production work with a tool that even large scale recording professionals use such as Soundforge.  You can make an ok recording so sooooo much better with the proper tlc.  Maybe not everyone has backgrounds in electronic music production or working full boards in studios.  Even studio techs don't expect a releasable recording from their awesomely droolable mics alone, everything you buy has been extensively mastered in the post stage.  So even if you pull a nutable recording from the mics alone....why not take the extra step and make it even better?

PS
I talk to much.

[scb]

EARPLUGS! 

that close, your ears will thank you

[Brian Skalinder]

I don't see why people are so anal about doing post production work with a tool that even large scale recording professionals use such as Soundforge.

Because it's extremely difficult to do properly, to do well.  Shoot, there are even professionals who suck at post-production.  I *know* that I suck, I've tried.  I'm pretty darn happy with my recordings so I don't feel the need to do post-production work.  And frankly - while you may be the exception to the case (though I've found most people who think they're an exception aren't; no offense intended) - virtually no one in this game as a hobby has the proper skills to do post-production properly, to do it well.  A simple HPF, sure, but beyond that - not in my experience listening to various recordings mastered by the taper and/or others.

You can make an ok recording so sooooo much better with the proper tlc.

And gobs of people royally screw up their recordings as well.  Glad to hear you feel you can provide the proper TLC.

I really didn't intend to come across as Mr. Negative here, just offering some ideas about why I - and possibly others - don't bother with extensive post-production.  And hey, if it works for you - go for it!

[bmr]

Also, unless you end up testing your output on multiple audio setups, what you're really doing is tweaking it to sound good to your ears, and on your stereo. I've gone back in and made two copies of shows I've taped; I distribute the one with a simple EQ once-over, if that (to get rid of any glaring anomalies), and then do a second to tweak it for my ears and headphones.

Engineers are good at what they do, in part, because they're able to create a global sound, one that sounds good across the playback spectrum. It's damn hard to duplicate that with SF or CEP on one playback system.

[Evil Taper]

I'll usually burn a copy on a cdrw and then test it on a few different outputs.....surround sound, 3 way floor stereo, small PA, headphones, car.  Can take 2 or 3 shots sometimes to make a universally balanced recording for most platforms but it's not impossible to achieve.  I guess it's just my prefferance right now and once I upgrade my mics I probably won't feel a need for such extensive post work.  But...if you've ever been to The Rave in Milwaukee, WI...which is the only venue any notable bands play in the state, 95% of the time all you hear is MUDDDDDDDD.  Worst venue ever.

[pfife]

TO the question at hand:

if you are taping in shitty venues, omni's are not going to be the most desireable, I'd say.  You'd probably be better off with cards or hypers (or running a filter on the mud zone in post).

Plus, if a certain mic sound amazing to you, then get those.  Ultimately, they are your tapes, so you should get what you like.   My personal bent is to stealth omni's ALWAYS, for 2 reasons-

1) I listen to my recordings in headphones all the time - so it is desirable for me to record in binaural.  At this point, I see the 4061's as the best omni's I can afford... and they are stealthy as shit... and I can do without versatility in mics cause I only use omni's for stealthing.  It is also nice with the 4061's that you can get maximum performance from a battery box, as opposed to phantom power - which means less to carry/hide.
2) I've had bad luck with even the most minimal movements by me, or someone around me, causing effects on the sound in the recording when using cards and hypers for stealthing.

but YMMV.  These are just my experiences.

[kfrinkle]

well, being the metal dude that i am, who occasionally tapes Yanni as well, I love the cardiods (CMC-8s) over the binaurlas anyday....  really need directional mics, especially in the shitty venues that most heavy metal bands play in.  i got a show i will try to tape tonight, and I will be right inbetween the stacks, in front of the board, 50 feet from stage.  its just the way to do it.

[pfife]

I love the cardiods (CMC-8s) over the binaurlas anyday.... 

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=20287.0

 

[kfrinkle]

+T   I know... its just that I used to have CSBs....

I love the cardiods (CMC-8s) over the binaurlas anyday.... 

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=20287.0

 

[pfife]

yeah, I think that's what that thread was initially written in response to. 

but, csb's aren't shit compared to HEB/4061's.


+t backatcha

[kfrinkle]

yeah, i loved my CSBs, i really did, then i got some CMC-8s, and havent touched the CSBs since.  : )

[pfife]

The SP's have a lot of value at their price point. Plus with changeable caps if you ever wanted to run omnis all you need is omni caps. The 406x series is a more expensive option, probably a more solid mic overall but it lacks the flexibility. I think the SP's lose a bit of the low end whereas the DPA's have a full range.

Its not much more expensive- granted its new vs. used, but I just got 2 4061's for $295 from ebay.  It appears the SP mics are $239, so its not a huge difference.

You do lose versatility though, I do agree.

[kfrinkle]

well, i normally say... if it isnt stealthed, it probably isnt worth taping.... i know i will get alot of shit for that, but oh well.  long live stealth taping.  the only time i used a stand i use duct tape and a camera tripod...  but hey, it turned out ok.