Topic: Suggest setup for recording music circle?

[phr]

I'm a computer nerd with some electronics knowledge but not much serious recording experience (just some vicarious experience that I've picked up in places like this).  I'm interested in recording music circles.  That's when a bunch of people sit around a room and perform, generally one at a time, not taking turns around the circle in any uniform way, but just bouncing around from one to another sort of at random.  It's mostly unamplified solo acoustic performances (person with guitar or occasional keyboard), i.e. nowhere near rock concert volumes.  It's done in hotel function space which means there can be low frequency a/c noise.  Because of the random performance order (someone 20 feet away from you can finish a song and then someone 2 feet away from you jumps in with the next one) there are sometimes sudden changes in volume.  And because you're really there to listen or perform yourself, and recording is a side thing, you don't want to keep jumping on the record levels whenever this happens.

So, there are two ways to deal with it.  One is ALC, a dirty word among serious recording folks from what I gather.  The other is 24 bit recording and really quiet preamps, recording at fairly low gain to not get clobbered by the guy 2 feet away, and relying on the high resolution so the 20-foot-away person sounds ok after you've adjusted the volumes on a computer later.

Right now I'm using a PMD660 with a Sony ECM-909 mic, recording in 44/16 mp3.  I can't record WAV without buying a ton of CF media which is still very expensive (these events are usually a whole weekend long so I want to record up to 30 hours without having to upload to a hard drive).  Truthfully after final volume equalization I'm not that concerned about ultra hi-fi sound.  I've done these recordings with analog cassette recorders and camcorders and been quite happy with the results.  I bought the PMD mainly to get long recording time and to avoid having to carry so much media (dozens of tapes).  I have a 4gb CF card that will hold 70+ hours of 128k mp3, which is awesome.  Finally, while I'm not "stealth", I want to avoid obtrusive setups, so I'm thinking in terms of single point stereo mics and at most small stands.  Mono omnidirectional might make more sense though.

Right now I think I'll stay with the PMD660 until there's reasonably priced 24 bit hard disk recorders (722 is way out of my league).  I'll deal with the gain issue somehow.  I'm wondering what people think of the ECM-909 mic for this kind of situation; I'm thinking of getting something better, maybe a Rode NT4, which has higher output level too (the 909 has low levels and the 660 preamps are rather noisy).  Any other suggestions, preferably not in a higher price range than the NT4 ($320-ish online)? What about a mic stand?  The 909 has this weird threaded gizmo which doesn't fit a normal stand--is an adapter available?

Thanks for any thoughts.

[jeromejello]

well if you are actually performing in a circle... an omni double M/S  set up in the center would be ideal... the whole loud/quiet thing would be somewhat attenuated if everyone was an equal distance from the source.  i would get a pair and run a stereo image.  LD mics would seem to me to be the best... the akg 414 xls have multi patterns... you could get fig 8 and omnis and anything else you might want.

actually, i am not sure you can run m/s without post in your case... then again, i know nothing.

[Brian Skalinder]

Any other suggestions, preferably not in a higher price range than the NT4 ($320-ish online)? What about a mic stand?  The 909 has this weird threaded gizmo which doesn't fit a normal stand--is an adapter available?

I suppose you could try split omnis, it would provide better coverage across the diameter of the circle.  Or Blumlein might work well to capture surround from all directions.  Mic stand, lots of options - check the TS Knowledge Base's Mics & Setup forum for some popular options.  Info in there on thread adapters, too.  As for mics...

the akg 414 xls have multi patterns...

These are far outside your budget.  Finding a pair of figure-8 mics in your budget will prove difficult, so Blumlein's probably not an option after all.  Maybe a pair of Studio Projects C4s?  I think they can be had for close to your budget.  You'd have the flexibility of running cards or omnis.

[jpschust]

Any other suggestions, preferably not in a higher price range than the NT4 ($320-ish online)? What about a mic stand?  The 909 has this weird threaded gizmo which doesn't fit a normal stand--is an adapter available?

I suppose you could try split omnis, it would provide better coverage across the diameter of the circle.  Or Blumlein might work well to capture surround from all directions.  Mic stand, lots of options - check the TS Knowledge Base's Mics & Setup forum for some popular options.  Info in there on thread adapters, too.  As for mics...

the akg 414 xls have multi patterns...

These are far outside your budget.  Finding a pair of figure-8 mics in your budget will prove difficult, so Blumlein's probably not an option after all.  Maybe a pair of Studio Projects C4s?  I think they can be had for close to your budget.  You'd have the flexibility of running cards or omnis.

i would agree with the c4's and then running split omnis.