Topic: Studio Projects C4?

[okietaper]

I have recorded several times with these mics mostly indoors, but once outdoors for Panic last fall.  I have never really played with the settings on the mic itself and have always ran them XY.  My questions are what exactly is accomplished with each setting (flat,-10db and bass roll off)  I think I have always had them on flat.  The reason that I am all of the sudden interested in this is because I( am recording Wakarusa next week and would like to have the most optimal setup.  In other words should I run cards or omnis, XY or ORTF, how high should the mics be and finally what freaking setting shoud I use on the mics themselves?  I would appreiate any input that you fellas can provide.

Thanks so much
Cary

[jpschust]

a lot of mics have these marks.

-10db is a pad on the mic for super loud venues- it basically performs an equal 10db softening on all frequencies. 

the bass roll off is to control the amount of bass the mic records. thats the very fasr story- but search on here for roll off and you'll find a lot on it.

[phanophish]

I have run the same mics at Wakarusa for the past 2 years.  They generally do a good job with sound so there is not much need for cuts or pads.  If you are looking to experiment do some reading on other mic patterns.  ORTF and DIN being the other most popular. I've also heard some people talk about running split omnis and having good results, I might give that a try this year.  I genreally try to run an approximation of the ORTF pattern and have good luck.  I almost always run my mics in the flat setting.  If it were a REALLY loud show I might kick in the -10 db pad and I have never needed the bass cut.  I have on occasion done some EQ after the fact if the recording was a bit bass heavy, but that has been rare.  Wakarusa is a blast.  See ya there.....

[halleyscomet8]

i've only had to use the -10 pad once. dinosaur jr 4/7/06 loudest show ever.

[T-90]

i've only had to use the -10 pad once. dinosaur jr 4/7/06 loudest show ever.

same....04/02/2006 -10db pad was ran....D Jr sure was LOUD 

[stigs]

here's a show i recorded that i turned the roll-off on part of the way through (its in the notes) if you want to hear a comparison

http://www.archive.org/details/mnathanson2005-10-12

[rowjimmytour]

When I ran my C4's I always ran them flat and my two favorite patterns w/ C4's are DIN and Jdisk. Check out my bookmarks for references to shows. I like the Moe. show for DIN or HBRSB last year at HSMF Big Meadows stage and Keller's set at HSMF w/ the Jdisc.
Peace

[JoeKiller]

I have found that I need to roll off the bass generally every time running the mini-me.  Unless its unamped but I have yet to get that situation.

[BayTaynt3d]

I prefer to rolloff in post where I can completely control where and by how much I do the rolloff. Unless you just don't want to deal in post, or for some reason you're brickwalling your pre (a lot of energy is down in those lower frequencies), I personally wouldn't rolloff during acquisition -- you have more options in post. As for the pads, like said before, you only need them if for some reason your levels are running too hot even when you've got your gain/trim all the way down, which doesn't happen very often (although I use it with my R4 sometimes so I don't have to run line-in, but that's a whole other conversation). I think you should run most of the time without the pad and without the rolloff, so I'd concentrate on the mic/stereo config. I run my C4's XY a lot, but then again, I'm mostly satge-lip taping which is a bit different.

[okietaper]

Thanks for all of the information on this topic.  I believe that I will probably run flat in ORTF for Wakarusa.  Sounds like something that I can pull off, cause there is no way I will be able to run split omni or Jdisc with what I have right now since the festy is less than a week away.  +T to all for the heady information.  Looking forward to meeting some TSers at Wakarusa.

Cary

[rowjimmytour]

Don't sale your self short!!! Just hit up a hardware store and for $15 ya can make a Jdisc for the C4's. Trust me it sounds real sweet when ya get it right.
http://www.maltedmedia.com/people/bathory/jecklin.html
Peace

[ScottT]

And don't count out split omnis either!  I'm sure you'll find plenty of folks with room on their stand and an extra clamp.  I was able to borrow some gear in the section to run split omnis at Summercamp and the results are tremendous!  Omnis rule outdoors...  I'd love to try a Jdisc next time.

[okietaper]

I just think that I am so green at this recording thing right now that I should probably get the XY and ORTF down good.  For instance I recorded XY for WSP in OKC at the ZOO and in my recording, which sounds good to me for my first big band recording with my current rig consisting of (SP C4>UA5-Digi Mod>NJB3) is sort of souns like there is another band playing the same somg in the background, sort of like an echo, but not really cause all I can really pick out is the percussion sometimes.  Kind of weird, but still really good to listen to being my first bif show and other than that it is a pretty decent recording, at least I listen to it all of thetime and that may have something to do with me being able to pick the little flaws out like this one.  Split Omnis and the JDisc sound like neat things to try, but I just do not want to get in over my head until I have the basics down first.  Thanks for all of the input and I will probably asking for more input once I begin to try these new configurations in the future.

How do you guys get the angles correct for the XY and ORTF?

Cary

[Oysterhead00]

How do you guys get the angles correct for the XY and ORTF?
Cary

I asked the same question (as I've never used any configs before) and people bring a cheap little plastic protractor with them to the show.  Apparently even eyeballing a simple 90-degree right angle is difficult as most people with underestimate it and go closer to 80-degrees.  I'll probably look like a dork, but I have a few printouts of the Shure mic config PDF here and a $0.99 protractor that I'm going to use for DMB next weekend

[halleyscomet8]

for 90 degrees use the corner of a dollar. looks less nerdy than a protractor

[WiFiJeff]

for 90 degrees use the corner of a dollar. looks less nerdy than a protractor

It's well known in high-end audiophile circles that you get much better sound if you use a $50.

Jeff

[KLowe]

And don't count out split omnis either!  I'm sure you'll find plenty of folks with room on their stand and an extra clamp.  I was able to borrow some gear in the section to run split omnis at Summercamp and the results are tremendous!  Omnis rule outdoors...  I'd love to try a Jdisc next time.

How far apart were your omnis?  I have seen everythign from 30in to 15ft?  I read the oade board and it says it depends on distance and width desired.  I have never been to bonnaroo and have no idea how far from the stages the board or section is...and have no idea as to how far apart the speakers are.

Any suggestions for split omni distances?  What about a J-disk?  Can one achieve good results from afar with a J-disk?

thanks yall.

KLowe