Topic: Audio recording in a harsh / remote environment .. thoughts on what to use?

[ljsurfer2002]

A friend of mine is looking for gear to use for audio recordings for a film project he is doing .. here's the scoop:

"dude
amigo
i need some info
i am looking to get a tough small handheld portable
audio recorder for a film project, where i will be
travelling on horseback and collecting additional audio
this one looks interesting :
*MAudio MicroTrack 24/96 Portable Handheld Recorder
http://www.solidstatesound.co.uk/M-Audio%20MicroTrack.htm
this thing looks pretty sick
and i like that its solidstate, no drives
any feedback or reccomendations would be helpful
thanks dude* "

"hey tyler
yeah we'll be out in the mountains of baja filming some ranchers
who do things in the old way
basically i would like to find an audio recorder which
is hand held , durable, and i can put batteries in
that seems essential, we'll be out and without power
-possible solar charge though-
it would be nice to have something that the input audio levels  are  adjustable too
cody "

so since he will be without charge power ... anything to suggest? .. nomad and just buy a lot of batteries and charge them up before hand would be a good suggestion ... even though it is HD based, it is pretty durable / sturdy.. other then that .. all i can think of to run on common alkaline batteries is a cassette recorder...

thoughts? ...

[ljsurfer2002]

and just a plug for his projects / work

http://codexico.com/

http://maybelogic.com/

tyler

[MattD]

If he is a professional, I can't recommend anything below the level of a 744T. (Or a 722, but for a pro film project, timecode is a must.) If tough is a requirement, I wouldn't trust the MT or JB3 as far as I can throw them. The options get more expensive as you go above the 744T level, but from what I know, you get what you pay for.

[ljsurfer2002]

I think the key thing here is power .. the 722 I think has only how many hours of record time? ... and this isn't pro-level filming (nor budget) .. it's low budget / indie filming .. so dropping 10 grand (or even 3) on the audio recording gear most likely isn't an option ...

[gforcewarning]

"basically i would like to find an audio recorder which
is hand held , durable, and i can put batteries in
that seems essential, we'll be out and without power"

and low budget? . . .

Hi-MD 

[gewwang]

R1 takes store bought alkaline AA batteries and each 4GB card at 16/44 gives about 6.5 hrs recording time.

[Evil Taper]

R1 takes store bought alkaline AA batteries and each 4GB card at 16/44 gives about 6.5 hrs recording time.

then just add $200 for the hard drive flash card reader thing and he should have ALOT of recording time and battery powering.  on the MOTU website they do claim that the MOTU Traveller is good for remote work when used with a laptop, there's links to some albums recorded by indiginous people in the jungles of south america on the website.  i don't think that is a good option though since he's gonna need battery power.  FWIW the guys who did audio for March of the Penguins (filmed in up to 70 below zero in antarctica) used the portable tascam magnetic tape recorders...which are mighty expensive.

[greenone]

Well, if it's durable he wants, hard to beat this:

http://www.aaton.com/products/sound/cantar/

A tad on the pricy end though.

[live2496]

You might look into the pdaudio system using the MIC2496 or maybe even a Denecke AD20 as a front end. You can get waterproof cases for the pocket pc but this uses li-ion batteries. You can get battery packs for these systems also.

I have developed an application for this geared toward capture of audio for movies. No timecode support yet. Recording to SD memory is quite robust and you can work in quite low temperatures. I recently tested it while on vacation in Canada to about -20 C and it seemed to work ok for about 1/2 hour outside in the cold. I did not test it for longer.

If you need support for timecode perhaps the SoundDevices units are the way to go.

Gordon
http://www.gidluckmastering.com/live2496.html

[fozzy]

Depending on how long the shoot is, he may do well renting a professional recorder(7xx, DEVA, etc..).  The more professional the gear the higher the lurning curve and the higher the cost.

For a budget rig I'd say mics > MP2 > D7/8.  Won't be stellar if you go cheap on the mic(s) but should be fine and all you would need is a stack of dats and a stack of AAs for power/media.  For TC he may want to look into renting a HHB dat.

[wbrisette]

Well, if it's durable he wants, hard to beat this:

http://www.aaton.com/products/sound/cantar/

A tad on the pricy end though.

Both the Cantar and Deva IV/V series boxes will thrive in harsh conditions, have timecode, and everything else a person would wanted (except affordability). Vin, a sound recordist in India took his Deva to the Indian desert for a shoot in temperatures that exceeded 120 deg. F daily, was dusty, and was a mess in general. After I think it was 2 weeks of shooting, his Deva and audio survived without a hitch.

The March of the Penguins movie was shot with the Cantar from what I've heard, so again, you can't get any harsher environments than that. Needless to say, both will work and last a long time. But, it's all how much $$$ do you want to spend? Of course you can also rent either of these two boxes and then you wouldn't have to shell out 11-18K.

Wayne

[flintstone]

"...a tough small handheld portable..."

This leaves out all the HHB/Zaxcom/Cantar gear, which can be called "transportable"
only because they have a handle to help you lug them in from the car. 

"i will be travelling on horseback and collecting additional audio..."

This makes me think that timecode sync with video camera footage is
not an important criterion. 

"...an audio recorder that is hand-held...and i can put batteries in..."

That requirement makes me think the Microtrack 2496 plus external AA battery box
would not be a good solution.  Better to have the battery compartment
an integral part of the recorder.

Three alternatives come to mind:  Sony Hi-MD minidisc, Edirol R-1, and
Marantz PMD660.  All are small enough to operate while holding in one hand,
run on standard batteries, and can record uncompressed PCM.

The R-1 and PMD660 use Compactflash as the recording medium. Given the
cost of Compactflash, it's likely that each day's recordings will have to be
transferred to a computer or storage device like the Hyperdrive
http://www.hyperdrive.com).   This adds to the cost and complexity of
the trip.  I'm also unsure if a laptop can survive bouncing around for several
days on horseback.

All this leads me to recommend the Sony Hi-MD recorder.  Hi-MD  offers a
unique set of features that are a good fit with the requirements of this project.

Hi-MD records uncompressed at 16/44.1, which is CD-quality audio.  That's the
same quality as most camcorders, so it shouldn't be a problem matching the
audio to audio captured with the camcorder.   

The Hi-MD recorder is cheap enough that the group could take several.
The Sony MZ-NH910 costs only $175.  This gives a backup in case a recorder
is accidentally sat on, dropped into a stream or stepped on by a horse
(there's nothing more frustrating than broken equipment on location).

Hi-MD recorders will record for about 3 hours on a single AA alkaline battery. 
Double that time (and cut the number of batteries you need) by using
lithium AAs.

The Hi-MD machine is small enough (4 inches square, and 6 ounces with AA
battery) to carry in a pocket,  protected from the elements, but still at
hand, ready to quickly record.

The Hi-MD discs are inexpensive (about $6.50 each, with capacity to hold
94 minutes of stereo recordings).   Minidiscs have proven to be reliable in dusty
and humid conditions.  The discs are plenty durable enough to bounce around
in a saddlebag for weeks.  Just keep them dry.

Hi-MDs have a couple of limitations.  First, the small size of the recorder means
tiny control buttons and a small LCD display.  The control buttons are relatively
fragile and will start giving trouble after a couple of years of use.  And many
controls are accessed through the recorder's menus, rather than by dedicated
switches or knobs on the outside of the recorder.  This can be a pain, but
you get used to it.

Hi-MD provides voltage for "plug-in power" mics, not the higher voltage "phantom
power" many pro mics require.   There are plenty of good mics that can run
on "plug-in power," or you can select a mic that has its own battery.

Flintstone

[ljsurfer2002]

thanks for all the info all! .. i think the hi-md will be the chioce for him..